Ship mod update, 5.0 beta request, an easy win

[Alan Phipps]

[Sorry GCU, I couldn't resist!]

... Captain, we have successfully overclocked the ship's combat computer and we are getting great processing speeds now! ... Yes, Captain, that is indeed great news but I wouldn't roll the mod out across the fleet just yet. ... You see the combat computer now only works for 5 seconds before it overheats and needs to be cooled down for a few minutes. ... Yes Captain, I'll get the mod removed - you can take the modding cost out of my pay.

[abisha1980]

Let's be completely honest and objective here. The current implementation simulates a slot machine. That's the reality. You pull the lever and get a random result each time. Other games have mechanisms like this, sure. For example Mass Effect had slot machines too, but those were put where they belong, in a casino, and they were completely irrelevant minigames! In X4 it is a major part of the game since many of the research options revole around unlocking mods.

Engineering is not gambling. The current implementation, where you can't reproduce results, where you virtually can't get the same effects from putting the same components together twice, makes absolutely no sense from either role playing, immersion, common sense, and definitely not from engineering point of view.

That may be your opinion, I disagree. Reminds me much more of overclocking a PC. Never get the same results twice, even with ostensibly identical components. That's also using brand new components, rather than stuff salvaged from a PC which has been repeatedly shot until it exploded.

that's because it will brake QM if it do but that do not take away that all based on equal distribution.
if intel produce a batch of chips some are better then others, others are worse then standard but the batch amount will always have the same distribution.

if you install a water cooler on your CPU you can overclock it better simple fact same go's with modding a spaceship equipment, car, CPU, GPU etc, etc

[GCU Grey Area]

[Sorry GCU, I couldn't resist!]

... Captain, we have successfully overclocked the ship's combat computer and we are getting great processing speeds now! ... Yes, Captain, that is indeed great news but I wouldn't roll the mod out across the fleet just yet. ... You see the combat computer now only works for 5 seconds before it overheats and needs to be cooled down for a few minutes. ... Yes Captain, I'll get the mod removed - you can take the modding cost out of my pay.

Kind of my point - sounds to me just the sort of thing you might get if you salvaged the cooling systems from several bullet-ridden, burnt out wrecks. First few you try might turn out to be just a little bit leaky & provide sub-optimal results.

[Pares]

Let's be completely honest and objective here. The current implementation simulates a slot machine. That's the reality. You pull the lever and get a random result each time. Other games have mechanisms like this, sure. For example Mass Effect had slot machines too, but those were put where they belong, in a casino, and they were completely irrelevant minigames! In X4 it is a major part of the game since many of the research options revole around unlocking mods.

Engineering is not gambling. The current implementation, where you can't reproduce results, where you virtually can't get the same effects from putting the same components together twice, makes absolutely no sense from either role playing, immersion, common sense, and definitely not from engineering point of view.

That may be your opinion, I disagree. Reminds me much more of overclocking a PC. Never get the same results twice, even with ostensibly identical components. That's also using brand new components, rather than stuff salvaged from a PC which has been repeatedly shot until it exploded.

It's not my opinion, this is how it works in the game. You press the button and get random result each time with no regards to the previous iteration. Not sure how does that relate to PC overclocking more than gambling machines. Higher frequency -> higher performance (+) - higher heat generation (-) and higher instability (-), these things are in direct relationship. I don't see the "push button for random result" in this at all, but whatever.

[GCU Grey Area]

Not sure how does that relate to PC overclocking more than gambling machines.

It's an analogy. A real world situation where pushing something beyond the specifications at which it was designed to run has unpredictable results.

[flywlyx]

It's an analogy. A real world situation where pushing something beyond the specifications at which it was designed to run has unpredictable results.

You always can reverse to last set up IRL.

[GCU Grey Area]

You always can reverse to last set up IRL.

Yeah, that part isn't analogous. Unlike overclocking a PC, ship mod disassembly in X4 is a destructive process where some of the parts are destroyed. Consequently no way to revert - most of the High Energy Catalyst used in one attempt to mod a gun is from a different batch to that used in the next attempt. Maybe think of it as overclocking a PC where the motherboard (analogous here to the main modding component) is always retained but most of the other parts (HEC etc) are discarded if they don't provide a satisfactory result.

[flywlyx]

Yeah, that part isn't analogous. Unlike overclocking a PC, ship mod disassembly in X4 is a destructive process where some of the parts are destroyed. Consequently no way to revert - most of the High Energy Catalyst used in one attempt to mod a gun is from a different batch to that used in the next attempt. Maybe think of it as overclocking a PC where the motherboard (analogous here to the main modding component) is always retained but most of the other parts (HEC etc) are discarded if they don't provide a satisfactory result.

Then it is obviously more efficient to keep the previous set and modify a new set. It is pointless to destroy the old set since the result is unpredictable and current set might be the best set in history.

[Raptor34]

Yeah, that part isn't analogous. Unlike overclocking a PC, ship mod disassembly in X4 is a destructive process where some of the parts are destroyed. Consequently no way to revert - most of the High Energy Catalyst used in one attempt to mod a gun is from a different batch to that used in the next attempt. Maybe think of it as overclocking a PC where the motherboard (analogous here to the main modding component) is always retained but most of the other parts (HEC etc) are discarded if they don't provide a satisfactory result.

Then it is obviously more efficient to keep the previous set and modify a new set. It is pointless to destroy the old set since the result is unpredictable and current set might be the best set in history.

One of the downsides of the new equipment system. Sure they have logistics advantages when it comes to manufacturing, which is actually worth more to me tbh, but under the old system you could in theory just store your modded guns somewhere if they are good but not optimal.
That and easier to move gear around.
Huh, might actually be a good thing to add to the upcoming pirate DLC actually.

[TKz]

There are definitely modded NPC ships flying around, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

I checked ALL ships in Second Contact (war between TRI and ARG/ANT), and there are a lot. Not a single one had a modification, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Even if factions can mod their ships, they don't use it, and if we can mod all our ships in a centralized manner / with a blueprint, it will be a big problem balance wise.

[Raptor34]

There are definitely modded NPC ships flying around, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

I checked ALL ships in Second Contact (war between TRI and ARG/ANT), and there are a lot. Not a single one had a modification, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Even if factions can mod their ships, they don't use it, and if we can mod all our ships in a centralized manner / with a blueprint, it will be a big problem balance wise.

There are some. But not any of the normal ships.
They generally have names like royal something or the other.
Essentially it isn't the line ships that are modded, but like elite ships. Maybe bounty hunters too but that I'm not sure.
You can even build these elite ships for them on occasion, and they pop out fully modded.
These are pretty rare though, like really really rare.
Of course once again players are asking for win more buttons. The way you hear people complain it's like not having modded ships is a major road block or something.

Edit: Iirc I've only seen these elite ships from PAR iirc. And maybe ZYA but that's not certain. So if you are actually hunting for it, check PAR first. Not actually sure if HOP has these.

[Alan Phipps]

Yes NPC ships with mods do indeed exist in vanilla even if quite rare; I have captured a few SCA marauder/plunderer ships (Minotaur Raiders and Phoenix/Behemoth capitals) already fitted with a basic ship mod to one of their surface elements. You find this out when you either strip it to sell it off, or when trying to re-equip it.

[Maebius]

Yeah, modded ships NPC are not too rare.
I've boarded and gained several and I usually only notice it if I want to refit them. If you just sell them, you won't notice.

Some mission rewards randomly have ships with mods on. I have 6-7 magnetars and a hokaido with some preinstalled exceptional(!) mods.

[TKz]

Thank you for theses answers.
I'll look for TRI moded ships (no PAR in my game) and SCA. In any case, like you said it's rare so it should not be a justification to have another "I WIN" button.

[Maebius]

Thank you for theses answers.
I'll look for TRI moded ships (no PAR in my game) and SCA. In any case, like you said it's rare so it should not be a justification to have another "I WIN" button.

If it's any indication of rarity...
I recently boarded 2 Tokyos with 30ish ships inside them.
Each Tokyo had gladius or kukri with a mod installed. Each mod was different, so no discernible pattern.

[Shehriazad]

Why not "both"?


For example the current heavy RNG approach should be available anywhere. It's done by run-of-the-mill drones and thus quality will vary.

A low-RNG option offered by veteran technicians that you will be able to get access to when you either hire one at your own shipyard or get enough standing with a faction to be allowed access to them. This will cost more.

The "gold ticket" NO-RNG option offered by virtuosos of their field. They might be black market specialists that will only be found on hidden away bases or a tech that usually works on top shelf secret projects for governments. Unlocking one will be quite the task and finding one that is "free" to work for you might be even harder.


So for your armies you might only want to use a hackjob technician and you tell him "every ship built here WILL come with a speed booster mod"...and he will do as you ask but you can't expect the best results.
And once your have become a faction to be reckoned with...the best of the best might want to work for you and from then on you get to turn every single fighter into a monster of metal...for a cost.


Edit:

A fourth variant would be the "Dark Tech" upgrades which feature even higher RNG with a risk of outright destroying capabilities of your ship, but if it works it is going to elevate your ship past any other method. This would be something you could use as a money sink lategame for players that want the "ultimate" HQ that can do it all. Access to these would be highly restricted as these upgrades as seen as illegal since ships with one of these upgrades will no longer pass the TÜV (lol).

[Pares]

Thank you for theses answers.
I'll look for TRI moded ships (no PAR in my game) and SCA. In any case, like you said it's rare so it should not be a justification to have another "I WIN" button.

Seriously, what "I WIN" button are you keep talking about? Making mod crafting less like gambling and more like actual crafting wouldn't make it one bit more overpowered than it already is. Nobody asked for reducing resource requirements. What people are asking for is actually some meaningful crafting system where it doesn't require you clicking a hundred times or savescum until you grow tired of long loading times if you want at least a bit consistency between your mods. Most of us are not masochists or gambling addicts, and most of us are not completely forgiving and apathetic to clearly underdeveloped mechanisms and poor game design, you know. Game mechanisms should be motivating, fun, engaging and interesting, not demotivating, tedious, annoying and frustrating.

[Pesanur]

Yeah, modded ships NPC are not too rare.
I've boarded and gained several and I usually only notice it if I want to refit them. If you just sell them, you won't notice.

Some mission rewards randomly have ships with mods on. I have 6-7 magnetars and a hokaido with some preinstalled exceptional(!) mods.

Sorry, but you are wrong, when you are to shell a ship with mods, your are prompted if your are sure to shell the ship because it is modded.

[Maebius]

Sorry, but you are wrong, when you are to shell a ship with mods, your are prompted if your are sure to shell the ship because it is modded.

Yeah, you're right... did we always have these yellow letters?