Terran Accellerators models?

[mr.WHO]

Similar to the split battleship or the split bomber.

Is there any leftover screenshot of discarted Split bomber/gunship?

I'm just interested on what was it's overall layout/design as Split Battleship was rather interesting design even if never finished.

[adeine]

We did take a look at the gates and ran into patch code issues.
In short: Not doable, while keeping save game compatibility

Would it be possible to keep the old design for old saves and use the new design for new games?

This seems like the best way to handle cases like this.

[Imperial Good]

This seems like the best way to handle cases like this.

I do not think it is that easy. I think the problem is that only some of the data is saved in the save file while the rest is pulled from the game data files. Updating the model in the game data files causes it to be inconsistent with the associated data stored in save files, hence rendering the save incompatible. Usually some form of migration script is used to make the data consistent after loading an older save but in this case it might not be possible or enough to support this change.

[CBJ]

Would it be possible to keep the old design for old saves and use the new design for new games?

Unfortunately that's not practical in this case, for various reasons.

[Matterom]

What if you released a signed extension that enabled the model for new saves? (and maybe some other balancing decisions y'all have always wanted to make but couldn't.) so we can run it without getting that dreaded modified tag.

[Starlight_Corporation]

We did take a look at the gates and ran into patch code issues.
In short: Not doable, while keeping save game compatibility

Still thanks for looking into it.

[mr.WHO]

I really hope that Tides of Avarice is the last DLC and X-22 is a new X4 stand alone.

The save game compactibiltiy is now really holding back X4 true potential.

[Rei Ayanami]

What exactly is the issue? If you are allowed to tell.

Simply replacing the asset macro references for terran sectors should be rather easy (if mods can do it

When I take a look at my savegames and search for
//*[@class="gate" and @macro="props_gates_orb_accelerator_01_macro"]
The only "relevant" information seems to be the unique address attribute (for example id="[0x6180675]"), the rest would, as far as I know, not really be relevant for this issue.

If i use the unique address of a gate component and search for it in the savegame file
//*[@*="[0x6180675]"]
I get over a hundred search results with ship entries about targetpoints with that unique gate ID (<targetpoint refobject="[0x6180675]"...>).
Each targetpoint with the gates unique ID has explicit coordinates and rotation data.

I assume these are flight paths calculated by the AI, with target coordinates and target rotations.
Is the issue that the target coordinates would not match up with the new model and the AI would get stuck? In that case, would it be possible to adjust the model (scale, model offset from pivot point, rotation, trigger zones) to match up with the coordinates produced by the current accelerator?
Or, after patching a savegame, restart all AI move actions and let them recalculate their paths?

Other than that I can not think of any other reason for savegame incompatibility that I can derive from the savegame data.

[Bozz11]

I don't understand why you guys so much against save game incompatibility !
They are a lot of games that make you have to restart a new game with very big updates, You guys gave us 4 years of great improvements and always kept save game compatibility, I think after 4 years you can make an update that's not save game compatible and tell people "okey if you want to finish your last game don't update or revert your game version to 4.2 and those want new stuff update to 5.0"...

Also why not do something like Kenshi where you can simply import an existing game to a new game, it's like custom start where you import all the stuff you had in your previous game

[mr.WHO]

... like custom start where you import all the stuff you had in your previous game

That one would be actually the nice one. Technically you start the new game, but you keep all (or most, even if it's like 90%) progress.

[Imperial Good]

I don't understand why you guys so much against save game incompatibility !
They are a lot of games that make you have to restart a new game with very big updates, You guys gave us 4 years of great improvements and always kept save game compatibility, I think after 4 years you can make an update that's not save game compatible and tell people "okey if you want to finish your last game don't update or revert your game version to 4.2 and those want new stuff update to 5.0"...

Because this is one of the most trivial reasons to cause save game incompatibility. Literally it is model swapping some accelerators which functionally work fine as is.

[Matterom]

So the problems i can think of.. and the few that i ran into while looking for a scripting solution..

There is no way to replace the specific object after it is baked into the save. The solution to this is probably an external script or an engine level update script that selects the specific locations in the save file and performs the save surgery.

I'd hoped to try and swap the model through a destroy create object swap, because when you change the macro in the way the mod is implemented it will change the resulting gate dynamic, its looking for a connected object that is not matching the object in the location so it breaks the link. But when you destroy the model it still breaks the link anyway. The solution to fix that method would be to have a inbuilt way to create new gate connections and remove old ones. Which is probably a good addition anyway but that's definitely some hub level stuff.

The third way i can see fixing this, is again deleting the accel gates, but creating a whole new set of accels to replace them afterwards. Quite a bit more involved and definitely a dirty fix, and probably not new save game compatible either.... lot of problems with that one but it would update existing saves.

[mr.WHO]

IMO "fake" restart where you import your stats, assets and universe composition as accurate as possible (but not perfect if not viable) would be good trade-off if it would allow more advance updates that breake save-game compactibility.

This could be new form of budgeted gamestart where you load unmodified save game and the game try to import as much as possible from it (again as I said perfection is not required, just good enought approximation).

[Bozz11]

I don't understand why you guys so much against save game incompatibility !
They are a lot of games that make you have to restart a new game with very big updates, You guys gave us 4 years of great improvements and always kept save game compatibility, I think after 4 years you can make an update that's not save game compatible and tell people "okey if you want to finish your last game don't update or revert your game version to 4.2 and those want new stuff update to 5.0"...

Because this is one of the most trivial reasons to cause save game incompatibility. Literally it is model swapping some accelerators which functionally work fine as is.

sur but they are other things like solar energy production, I would like that in every systeme would add more strat. planing for your factories

[xant]

I think this is where X-22 comes in, which I hope is a standalone expansion that includes all the features that would otherwise break save game compatibility.

Because yeah, keeping everything compatible for 4 years, onyl to break it for a small model swap? That would be absurd.

[Imperial Good]

sur but they are other things like solar energy production, I would like that in every systeme would add more strat. planing for your factories

And that needs a save wipe? I think editing the values carries straight through as the link is to the data and not save file.

[mr.WHO]

sur but they are other things like solar energy production, I would like that in every systeme would add more strat. planing for your factories

And that needs a save wipe? I think editing the values carries straight through as the link is to the data and not save file.

Leaving 100% solar power was not due to save-game compactibility, but because Egosoft didn't wanted to aggro people who build mega-complexes to find they self-sufficient super-base now doesn't have enough solar panels.

Personally I think it's non-issues as, if you have megacomplex then moving and adding some solar panels is easy thing.

Still there is a stack of many such things already:
- Terran Accelerators
- Solar power in various sectors
- copy/paste stats for existing ship
- medium turrets copy/paste of bullet stats

I do hope for X-22 to be next X4 stand alone.
Currently we do know it's a stand alone game, but it could be unrelated to X4 or completely different (e.g. Mobile or Multi-Player).

[Raptor34]

I think this is where X-22 comes in, which I hope is a standalone expansion that includes all the features that would otherwise break save game compatibility.

Because yeah, keeping everything compatible for 4 years, onyl to break it for a small model swap? That would be absurd.

I'll rather they wait tbh. Figure out all these little things.
Remember that back in X3 almost anything breaks save compatibility.

[Caedes91]

Is it possible to create a savegame updater/converter?

[mr.WHO]

I'll rather they wait tbh. Figure out all these little things.

IMO, given the previous timelines and reveals, unless there would be some delay, we should expect X-22 reveal somewhere around September/October.

Alternatively, Egosoft might decide to milk X4 more with additional DLCs, but I think the main reason for X-22 is because they are coming close to eat their own tail with DLCs (good example of such is Stellaris that kinda fall under it's DLC weight last year or two).


This is just a guess, but it might also make sence to go with X-22 in order to make game work with Borons.