[WIP] Dawn of Rebirth

[StormMagi]

So has this moved beyond just adding new ship models into X4?

I don't think so. I was setting up XR to replay it (since I never finished the story at least) and was looking for any custom ship models. Haven't seen any in the forums here (english anyway) or on Nexus. From what I have gathered though, is it is much harder to bring ships into X:R than previous X games. Since X:4 uses the same engine and all, I think we are in the same boat. Either not possible due to lack of the right tools or so convoluted people didn't bother. Or option 3, no one cared enough to put ships into XR that you couldn't fly, since there is the capital ship bridge mod...

[Requiemfang]

So has this moved beyond just adding new ship models into X4?

I don't think so. I was setting up XR to replay it (since I never finished the story at least) and was looking for any custom ship models. Haven't seen any in the forums here (english anyway) or on Nexus. From what I have gathered though, is it is much harder to bring ships into X:R than previous X games. Since X:4 uses the same engine and all, I think we are in the same boat. Either not possible due to lack of the right tools or so convoluted people didn't bother. Or option 3, no one cared enough to put ships into XR that you couldn't fly, since there is the capital ship bridge mod...

Don't forget there is a mod in XR where someone managed to import models from X3 era games.

The Lost Sectors mod viewtopic.php?f=129&t=392085

[magitsu]

Lost Sectors and CWIR New Frontier indeed have a few new ships, aside from more renamed ones. OL's largest xxxkron ships being the most visually appealing to consider.
But indeed, there's not any that you can actually fly since it wasn't XR's concept. But cap ship bridge + new ships is almost the same thing, besides the more common activity of blowing them up as enemies.

https://www.egosoft.com:8444/confluence ... WIKI/Ships

[StormMagi]

So has this moved beyond just adding new ship models into X4?

I don't think so. I was setting up XR to replay it (since I never finished the story at least) and was looking for any custom ship models. Haven't seen any in the forums here (english anyway) or on Nexus. From what I have gathered though, is it is much harder to bring ships into X:R than previous X games. Since X:4 uses the same engine and all, I think we are in the same boat. Either not possible due to lack of the right tools or so convoluted people didn't bother. Or option 3, no one cared enough to put ships into XR that you couldn't fly, since there is the capital ship bridge mod...

Don't forget there is a mod in XR where someone managed to import models from X3 era games.

The Lost Sectors mod viewtopic.php?f=129&t=392085

Lost Sectors and CWIR New Frontier indeed have a few new ships, aside from more renamed ones. OL's largest xxxkron ships being the most visually appealing to consider.
But indeed, there's not any that you can actually fly since it wasn't XR's concept. But cap ship bridge + new ships is almost the same thing, besides the more common activity of blowing them up as enemies.

https://www.egosoft.com:8444/confluence ... WIKI/Ships

I missed those, probably because I was looking more for standalones than multi-feature packages. That gives me much more hope.

[Thecrippler]

questen do you have any new images haw your mod is progressing or maybe a small video

[StormMagi]

Ojump, any progress or is no news good news?

[Thecrippler]

Ojump are you still with us

[Warnoise]

We can safely say that Ojump has "Ojumped ship"! get it? get it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA










ok im gonna see myself out.

[Ojump]

Nah, I'm still around, just got a bit busy the 2 previous months.

However, the main issue for the mod is still here : collisions meshes make the game unstable, so as long as this issue is ongoing, I cannot release anything (More ships with collision meshes added = higher crashes frequency).

So if someone succeed to solve the problem in some way...I would be happy to know

[Ezarkal]

There are a few other mods out there that managed to port some ships from XR. Maybe the authors found a fix for the issues.
I really have no idea... I haven't switched to modded game yet. Once I do, it's probably going to be because of your mod, because... Lepton/Onil...

I'm gonna re-create Cantera in Nopelio's fortune.

[Thecrippler]

Nah, I'm still around, just got a bit busy the 2 previous months.

However, the main issue for the mod is still here : collisions meshes make the game unstable, so as long as this issue is ongoing, I cannot release anything (More ships with collision meshes added = higher crashes frequency).

So if someone succeed to solve the problem in some way...I would be happy to know

o it is good to see you again I thought something had happened to you unfortunately i am no expert on this but i'm curious devs is it so hard to spend one person to help him out with this problem didn't you hire 2 person last month for this job

[Arkblade]

Nah, I'm still around, just got a bit busy the 2 previous months.

However, the main issue for the mod is still here : collisions meshes make the game unstable, so as long as this issue is ongoing, I cannot release anything (More ships with collision meshes added = higher crashes frequency).

So if someone succeed to solve the problem in some way...I would be happy to know

I doubt that it is a bug in the game itself.
When X3TC, I had similar instability with cockpit Mod.
Ultimately it was a bug, it fixed after reporting to egosoft.

[Cg089]

I've been looking into the X Rebirth converter & getting it a bit more up to snuff for X4. It doesn't handle the new XML stuff very well right now. No news yet, but we'll see. Hopefully that'll provide some insight into collision meshes too, but no promises. Someone dug up the converter's source (don't have a name to credit, found it second or third hand), and I was able to get in touch with TargetLost who still had the original text files containing the descriptions of the various format that arc_ put together way back when which provides a bit more insight into the actual format (as opposed to implementation). I'll let you know if I find anything good Ojump.

[Ojump]

I doubt that it is a bug in the game itself.
When X3TC, I had similar instability with cockpit Mod.
Ultimately it was a bug, it fixed after reporting to egosoft.

From my understanding, it is a double issue actually :
- only collisions meshes converted by the converter cause the crashes, so something goes wrong with the newly generated xmf file => it is the converter which makes somethings "wrong" indeed. And I believe it could be the already existing issues of the past stated here by Arc_

- On the other side, the problem of the game itsef is the robustness of the game engine => if the file is not good enough, the engine should refuse the file and/or write some log output. For the moment the game just CTD on game start or Freeze when exiting with no log ouput. So for this point, it is a "issue" from the game as the engine is not robust enough and completely break if there is a small problem in the xmf

- Additionnaly, if no crash on startup , the modified collisions meshes seems to be handled properly by the game, which is the weird part of this problem => it let me think that somehow, the game has difficulty to instantiate the collision model (CTD on startup) and always fail to delete it (Freeze on quit).

@Cg089 I also took a look at the source files and the descriptions that arc_ succeed to dig out. However, finding the root cause of the issue, considering that we don't know what changed in the xmf between XR and X4 is a (very) long and tedious work if Egosoft does not give a hand to point out the issue IMO. But let's hope you or someone has the time to investigate and make a better version of the tool

[Cg089]

Between the description & the code, I'm cautiously optimistic that I may be able to figure something out. And While your point is valid about the engine not being robust in some areas, binary file formats are kind of notoriously non-robust in my opinion. They are ideal for fast loading & space efficiency (which is why they are used), but in general, every bit tends to count in them, so anything even a little bit off can screw things up. The game could handle things more elegantly for sure though. One (imo fairly likely) possibility is that the exported meshes meet the binary format, but not other geometric properties that are ensured by Egosoft's exporter.

Egosoft seems to want a converter to exist - I've PM'd a few devs and got some helpful and friendly responses back indicating they are happy to provide info when needed. Apparently, not too much changed between X Rebirth and X4 in terms of the file format. The devs seem willing to point out issues, they just are focused on developing the game rather than trying to redo their pipeline (that has proprietary components and is subject to change) for modding right now. Personally, I think they have their priorities straight on that front- they likely can't release their current pipeline due to licensing, and even if they could give enough details most of us wouldn't have the tools they use as part of it (and they aren't cheap). Developing an open source pipeline to do the same thing their current one does and making it reliable is a fair bit of work which doesn't fix the engine itself, and maintaining it to make sure it's compatible with whatever changes in their pipeline happen in the future is worse.

I'm currently putting status updates in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=181&t=414274. My first goal is to check if the X4 files match the binary format described by the original spec arc_ made (a schema, if you will). If they don't, I'll need to figure out what changed. My next implementation goal is to get X4 files to go thru the converter and back without being unstable. Unless I misunderstand, currently, a X4 ship put thru the converter once in each direction (not even opened in blender, just to .dae and back - and note that the original XML file should be used, since that is for sure broken) will cause crashes; is this correct?

[Ojump]

Of course, releasing their tools and pipeline is out of question (for the obvious reasons that you stated). However, it's already a good news to hear that Egosoft dev are willing to help the modders by pointing out the changes between XR and X4

One (imo fairly likely) possibility is that the exported meshes meet the binary format, but not other geometric properties that are ensured by Egosoft's exporter.

Yes, I also tend to think that way.
Additionnally, I heard that some people succeed to modify some meshes without making the game crash once reloaded into the game, so it could also depend on the way that the vertex/verticles coordinates are converted..

Unless I misunderstand, currently, a X4 ship put thru the converter once in each direction (not even opened in blender, just to .dae and back - and note that the original XML file should be used, since that is for sure broken) will cause crashes; is this correct?

I made this verification some times ago. If I remember properly :
- X4 XMF => Converter DAE-> X4 XMF : not boom
- X4 XMF => Converter -> blender DAE export -> X4 XMF : boom
However, I checked those points 3 or 4 months ago, so my memory may trick me