[MOD] Rise of the Ossian Raider v2.0 and ashipmod

[Misunderstood Wookie]

I am just a messenger -
but..
viewtopic.php?f=181&t=415713&p=4861617#p4861617

[sco1981]

OH nice so this is the new ai-shipmod?

This is a whole new mod which includes all features of ashipmod also.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

OH nice so this is the new ai-shipmod?

This is a whole new mod which includes all features of ashipmod also.

Oh I noticed after doing some reading.
I understand this will near certainly conflict with Variety & Rebalance Overhaul
and DeadAir Gate Overhaul (which reworks the entire sector list and map of the universe.)

I really would love compatibility with them both.
So I kinda took it upon myself to let them all know including you now that you should all have a chat see what can be done.
The first is probably arguably the best ship balance mod available as of now it would of no issue prior version 1.4 but they added the battle ships mod from nexus balanced into the main project and that may or likely will confilict with flagships and that is not to account for the entirely new faction in this latest instalment but it would be a nice thing to see two XL types to the mix and the new faction added by this balanced out properly by the Faction Fixes mod and VRO to see fleets using battleships and capital ships (flagship) would be nicer naming scheme anyway to see them as Capital Ships.


The latter is probably the best universe replacement around so far, I had some plans to eventually tac on an unlockable wormhole of sorts to tie it into an expansion which leads too a remake of X3:AP Galaxy+ Sectors, my concept for it would be to re-design X3's sectors around a time into X4's current timeline. However, I will be needing the SPLIT expansion DLC before I can really make much headway on that project.

[Angsaar]

It brings a new sector with a new faction, which is enemy to all factions but HOP.

Sweet! If it's possible to have new factions with dynamic relations and what-not, would corporation-like factions be also technically viable?

One thing I think X4 would benefit greatly from are smaller (player-sized) groups against whom to compete early on, ideally with their own major-faction alignments - or lack of - and area of expertise (mining/trading/combat/multi-role) for character. The idea of a turf war is so damn appealing

Could that be too taxing on performance? XD

[sco1981]

OH nice so this is the new ai-shipmod?

This is a whole new mod which includes all features of ashipmod also.

Oh I noticed after doing some reading.
I understand this will near certainly conflict with Variety & Rebalance Overhaul
and DeadAir Gate Overhaul (which reworks the entire sector list and map of the universe.)

I really would love compatibility with them both.
So I kinda took it upon myself to let them all know including you now that you should all have a chat see what can be done.
The first is probably arguably the best ship balance mod available as of now it would of no issue prior version 1.4 but they added the battle ships mod from nexus balanced into the main project and that may or likely will confilict with flagships and that is not to account for the entirely new faction in this latest instalment but it would be a nice thing to see two XL types to the mix and the new faction added by this balanced out properly by the Faction Fixes mod and VRO to see fleets using battleships and capital ships (flagship) would be nicer naming scheme anyway to see them as Capital Ships.


The latter is probably the best universe replacement around so far, I had some plans to eventually tac on an unlockable wormhole of sorts to tie it into an expansion which leads too a remake of X3:AP Galaxy+ Sectors, my concept for it would be to re-design X3's sectors around a time into X4's current timeline. However, I will be needing the SPLIT expansion DLC before I can really make much headway on that project.

Yeah, i talked to both mod authors already.
We will see what kind of compatibility is possible.

Sweet! If it's possible to have new factions with dynamic relations and what-not, would corporation-like factions be also technically viable?

One thing I think X4 would benefit greatly from are smaller (player-sized) groups against whom to compete early on, ideally with their own major-faction alignments - or lack of - and area of expertise (mining/trading/combat/multi-role) for character. The idea of a turf war is so damn appealing

Could that be too taxing on performance? XD

It is indeed possible, big and small factions/corporations. But yeah, more factions will hit the performance a bit i think. It depends how much jobs they have.
But Mysterial or mewosmith could tell more about this.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

excellent new.

[DeadAirRT]

Good news is that I already made the compatibility submod. Bad news is I need to check with SCO to make sure my changes matches his vision for the mod.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

Good news is that I already made the compatibility submod. Bad news is I need to check with SCO to make sure my changes matches his vision for the mod.

I am getting antsy haha.
Just waiting for VRO dev to do the same actually.

[Aranov]

Hello,
So "Rise of the Ossian Raider" brought me back in to X4 it looked so nice, but I'm seeing a few problems.

This is with the MK1 fleet mod.
So foremost, the Ossians feel WAY overtuned. The other factions can't keep up. They're just sending hordes of Behemoths, supported by Eurekas, at anything that stands.
I try to fight back, but I can't catch enough of a break to actually make money, so with attrition all I have left is an Taranis MK3 that I put all my money in and a Eureka I found.
There are other destroyers of course, but I can't trust the NPC shipyards to have resources to maintain them, which wouldn't be a problem if my damn auto traders would do something other die to HOP or ORA.
But that last one is not your fault (still waiting one that sector blacklist Egosoft).

Second, Eurekas feel poorly balanced. The issues came to light over many frustrating boarding attempts. Most glaring is the hardpoints have to much shield and health it seems. My ships try to take them out but the 'primary' shields fall long
before a hardpoint can even be knocked out, and from there the target just gets destroyed. Next is I feel they are over crewed. A full veteran marine complement? Know how hard those are to get? Even if I got them all I'd have to transfer them
one at a time to the boarding ship I believe. Add in how small the faction is compared to how many ships full of crew, it kinda breaks the fantasy.

Third, I see other ships I don't recognize in the preview, but as I said, ORA is just using Behemoths and Eurekas. At that, NONE of the 'normal' AI factions seem to be using the new ships, but I'm assuming they need the resources to build them.

Those are my issues so far, just a balancing act. But don't get me wrong, this is a great mod, In fact I LOVE the homemade ships more like the Eureka and the Bayamon.

[sco1981]

Good news is that I already made the compatibility submod. Bad news is I need to check with SCO to make sure my changes matches his vision for the mod.

Lets talk on discord.

Hello,
So "Rise of the Ossian Raider" brought me back in to X4 it looked so nice, but I'm seeing a few problems.

This is with the MK1 fleet mod.
So foremost, the Ossians feel WAY overtuned. The other factions can't keep up. They're just sending hordes of Behemoths, supported by Eurekas, at anything that stands.
I try to fight back, but I can't catch enough of a break to actually make money, so with attrition all I have left is an Taranis MK3 that I put all my money in and a Eureka I found.
There are other destroyers of course, but I can't trust the NPC shipyards to have resources to maintain them, which wouldn't be a problem if my damn auto traders would do something other die to HOP or ORA.
But that last one is not your fault (still waiting one that sector blacklist Egosoft).

Second, Eurekas feel poorly balanced. The issues came to light over many frustrating boarding attempts. Most glaring is the hardpoints have to much shield and health it seems. My ships try to take them out but the 'primary' shields fall long
before a hardpoint can even be knocked out, and from there the target just gets destroyed. Next is I feel they are over crewed. A full veteran marine complement? Know how hard those are to get? Even if I got them all I'd have to transfer them
one at a time to the boarding ship I believe. Add in how small the faction is compared to how many ships full of crew, it kinda breaks the fantasy.

Third, I see other ships I don't recognize in the preview, but as I said, ORA is just using Behemoths and Eurekas. At that, NONE of the 'normal' AI factions seem to be using the new ships, but I'm assuming they need the resources to build them.

Those are my issues so far, just a balancing act. But don't get me wrong, this is a great mod, In fact I LOVE the homemade ships more like the Eureka and the Bayamon.

Thank you for your detailed feedback.
Find the balance is a long process, but i will reduce the shield count for the turret groups and reduce the used marines a bit. With the next version, it is possible to buy the new ships at another shipyard.
I will also reduce the count of the behemoth jobs a bit.
The Eureka is the "standard" ship, both others are flagships and will be build at the shipyards, if you activate one of the flagship addon mods.
The normal Factions should use the ships, if you activate the ror_ai mod. It takes some time.

[Shuulo]

Ill do comp. patch after all your first pass on balance. As of now, I wonder how mk3 will work with VRO, as it makes ships with a lot of L weapons a bit more powerful than possible in vanilla.
Maybe I should implement patch only for mk1?

[SpenzOT]

Ill do comp. patch after all your first pass on balance. As of now, I wonder how mk3 will work with VRO, as it makes ships with a lot of L weapons a bit more powerful than possible in vanilla.
Maybe I should implement patch only for mk1?

Capital ships are supposed to be powerful. The problem is that the largest vanilla ships, the carriers, are woefully undergunned and the supposed vanilla battleships like the behemoth are no more powerful than an M7 from X3. It makes your mod, which gives capital ships actual firepower, seem overpowered.

I have played probably 40 hours with your mod and the old battleship mod and observed many things. For one, ships like the P and the Cerberus are inadequate combat ships. They are too big and easily get destroyed by the L plasma cannons. The Xenon K is also a poor combatant 1v1 because their weapon is kind of unreliable. Sometimes it does a lot of damage but other times it does none. They are easy targets for the L plasma cannons

Your mod does however balance itself out in large fleet actions, where the turrets have many targets to hit. Large swarms of fighters overwhelm the CIWS and the cyclones, while if you get more than 3 K's, even an Arwan is in danger of destruction. Also, your mod is essential when going up against stations, since the vanilla weapons are absolutely terrible at anything even remotely close to effective damage. Even still, I found myself taking heavy losses against armed stations even with multiple Mk2 vessels.

If I had to make any suggestions for Mk3 balance, I would revert the xenon beam back into a projectile, remove if possible the frigates from the plasma cannon targeting list (to encourage the use of M particle cannons instead of just loading up on cyclones and CIWS), and slightly reduce the shield damage large weapons do. The Mk2/3 ships are not as overpowered as you may think they are. So long as their resource costs remain high they are a challenge but not invincible, which is exactly what makes your mod an essential for my endgame.

Of course this is just my opinion. I truly believe that VRO is mandatory at this point so I hope you can hash something out to make these mods all compatible.

[sco1981]

Version 1.1 Update:
- decreased factionlogic L and XL ships in mainmod
- adjusted shields and hull of new ships
- added new sector with new trader-faction, where you can buy all ships
- added factionlogic L and XL ships in mk1 and mk3 flagships mods
- fixed layouts of some ships
- removed Gate to Profit Center Alpha temporary
- adjusted mk3 ships
- added missing engine icons for some ships
- reduced weapon sound of XL main weapon (Xenon R and Eternal Dawn)
- added Headquarter and representativ guy to both factions

Ill do comp. patch after all your first pass on balance. As of now, I wonder how mk3 will work with VRO, as it makes ships with a lot of L weapons a bit more powerful than possible in vanilla.
Maybe I should implement patch only for mk1?

I think many peoples want to use your mod with both mk1 and mk3 variants. If you would support both variants, then this would be awesome.
A solution for more L turrets would be to reduce the hull size of these ships. So you got more firepower, but lost durability.

[turosp]

I played like 30 hours with ashipmod installed and I really liked it - thanks for creating it!

Now I tried a new start with ROR and there are a lot of enemy ships in every sector, at least 5-6 small ones, a few mediums and got a K in Hatikvah's Choice I, it was going rampant next to the highway. So, is this normal after like 20minutes in a freshly started game or something went wrong?

I use these mods at the moment which I think may affect the start:
- ROR: main and AI (without the invasion mods)
- ashipmod: main and AI (without the invasion mod)
- all four modules from Faction War/Economy Enhancer

Keep up the good work!

cheers
Nosayton

[Thecrippler]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

[Misunderstood Wookie]

I played like 30 hours with ashipmod installed and I really liked it - thanks for creating it!

Now I tried a new start with ROR and there are a lot of enemy ships in every sector, at least 5-6 small ones, a few mediums and got a K in Hatikvah's Choice I, it was going rampant next to the highway. So, is this normal after like 20minutes in a freshly started game or something went wrong?

I use these mods at the moment which I think may affect the start:
- ROR: main and AI (without the invasion mods)
- ashipmod: main and AI (without the invasion mod)
- all four modules from Faction War/Economy Enhancer

Keep up the good work!

cheers
Nosayton

Umm. what.
There is no AiShipmod AI or Main with ROR those mods are redundant and ROR was created with them built into the core main https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1705279348
Your only choice now is adding the MK1 AI module and if you want MK1 or MK3 ship variants and you may install both if desired.

[TSchmidtC]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

At the moment, fighting mechanics does not work in this game, the factions try to conquer sectors with construction ships and even defend themselves with construction ships.

[sco1981]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

Got argon wrecked even with ROR version 1.1? There should a lot fewer invasion ships beeing built, but the old ones need to be destroyed first.
Did you looked at the shipyard, were all resources available?

You can try to use Mysterials faction enhancer, it would enhance all factions behavoir.

[TSchmidtC]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

Got argon wrecked even with ROR version 1.1? There should a lot fewer invasion ships beeing built, but the old ones need to be destroyed first.
Did you looked at the shipyard, were all resources available?

You can try to use Mysterials faction enhancer, it would enhance all factions behavoir.

I am TSC3000 from Nexus and the Teladi / Xenon problem also affects the Argons, they do not build and send warships even though the shipyards have enough material and work.

[sco1981]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

Got argon wrecked even with ROR version 1.1? There should a lot fewer invasion ships beeing built, but the old ones need to be destroyed first.
Did you looked at the shipyard, were all resources available?

You can try to use Mysterials faction enhancer, it would enhance all factions behavoir.

I am TSC3000 from Nexus and the Teladi / Xenon problem also affects the Argons, they do not build and send warships even though the shipyards have enough material and work.

I did not touch the other factions. Can you look at the shipyards queues, which ships are in there?
Maybe there is a bug in the factionlogic script. Can you try with mysterials faction enhancer please?