[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Wed, 10. Apr 19, 14:56

ledhead900 wrote:
Tue, 9. Apr 19, 10:15

X4 and Rebirth lack the scripting engine thus we lack the ability to add proper functions like this without replacing the the existing or using hacky methods to run right-click menus
As far as I understand X4 scripting is much more powerful than in X3, its only that UI is tricky to mod as of now, devs planned to revisit this in future, so we can expect many new things.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Misunderstood Wookie » Wed, 10. Apr 19, 15:20

Shuulo wrote:
Wed, 10. Apr 19, 14:56
ledhead900 wrote:
Tue, 9. Apr 19, 10:15

X4 and Rebirth lack the scripting engine thus we lack the ability to add proper functions like this without replacing the the existing or using hacky methods to run right-click menus
As far as I understand X4 scripting is much more powerful than in X3, its only that UI is tricky to mod as of now, devs planned to revisit this in future, so we can expect many new things.
It might seem this way, just I feel maybe that XML is just not a strong suit for me, I dislike working with it, the language looks like a mess with all the capsulation and stuff inside capsulation.
I prefer to write LUA or Xscript

Now I did see a tool around here which would convert the X4 XML into Xscript scipts allowing you to do most things with a Xscript editor then it exports that back out as correct XML for X4
I may just go and use that, the UI atm uses LUA so that's fine no issues there until you need to link the LUA scripts to XML for the game to do anything which is where I am stuck.

So far no real modding manual for X4 but that is okay.
*modified*
*X3 LiteCube User*
MOD GemFX Real Space Shaders
MOD Variety and Rebalance Overhaul Icon Pack
I lost my Hans and should not be flying Solo.
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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Thu, 11. Apr 19, 23:13

Version 1.5:
- Corrected bug that prevented application of balance changes to all Xenon ships, you will learn to fear them
- Re-balanced L turrets a bit, range of Xenon beam is now 17km but bugged damage a bit. Annihilator is now also 17km with decrease in accuracy and tiny bit in damage. This was done to prevent easy kiting by Xenon destroyers of defence platforms.
- Minor tweaks to ship balance (teladi fighters more durable etc)
- small re-balance of shield recharge rates, it will be more noticeable, especially on M ships.
- tweaks and corrections to text files
- updates to some impact graphics and sounds

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Misunderstood Wookie » Fri, 12. Apr 19, 09:25

Nice, any word on the progress for balancing out the Rise of the Ossian Raider?
Compatibility is in with them to other mod so I just kinda waiting to for this one before starting a new game.
*modified*
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MOD GemFX Real Space Shaders
MOD Variety and Rebalance Overhaul Icon Pack
I lost my Hans and should not be flying Solo.
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Thecrippler
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Thecrippler » Fri, 12. Apr 19, 10:07

Shuulo nice mod man you did a excellent job the game is more fun now ty to your mod i have a proposal i don't know if some will agree with me but is there any way you can separate guns from faction something similar to eve for example teladi pulse and beam weapons only or argon chain guns and autocannon and so on

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 12. Apr 19, 18:09

ledhead900 wrote:
Fri, 12. Apr 19, 09:25
Nice, any word on the progress for balancing out the Rise of the Ossian Raider?
Update to 2.5 comes first, sorry.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Archaeosis » Sat, 13. Apr 19, 15:59

This mod really is terribly impressive. The sounds, the effects, the balance - everything feels so much better. Large capital battles now look and feel great!

I'd say that station defenses are vastly overpowered but that was a vanilla issue too and more to do with the number of hardpoints than anything else.

Thanks very much for your hard work!

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by mr.WHO » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 11:18

I haven't tried this mod yet, but is there, or in plan to add more destroyer main weapons?
Like Heavy beams, torpedo tubes.

Also i would be nice to have torpedo turrets.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 11:48

mr.WHO wrote:
Tue, 23. Apr 19, 11:18
I haven't tried this mod yet, but is there, or in plan to add more destroyer main weapons?
Like Heavy beams, torpedo tubes.

Also i would be nice to have torpedo turrets.
I do want add cruise missile launch tubes, yes. I did not though about beam weapons as ai is a bit not so great with using it in main slot for L ships.
More will come certainly.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 26. Apr 19, 17:43

Hey Shuulo I got a sick idea:

Take vanilla shard turret logic (aka shotgun logic).
Take your flak cannon effect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jdbNtcD4qw


Replace shotgun pellets with flak shells (so the turret shoot several flak shells in shotgun pattern each shot) - that would be like X3 Cluster Flak Array - I don't know, if X4 support proximity fuse/area dammage for bullets, so it might look more cool than effective.

If this would be effective then this could be "heavy/mk.2" version of flak from your video.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 26. Apr 19, 22:37

mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 26. Apr 19, 17:43
Hey Shuulo I got a sick idea:

Take vanilla shard turret logic (aka shotgun logic).
Take your flak cannon effect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jdbNtcD4qw


Replace shotgun pellets with flak shells (so the turret shoot several flak shells in shotgun pattern each shot) - that would be like X3 Cluster Flak Array - I don't know, if X4 support proximity fuse/area dammage for bullets, so it might look more cool than effective.

If this would be effective then this could be "heavy/mk.2" version of flak from your video.
I tested too many variants of Flak already, yours included :) ( tested few firing missiles, mines, shotgun like, CIWS like etc. neither wors as I really want it to)
Unfortunately proximity fuse is not possible and that makes Falk cannons a bit difficult to emulate, I found a more or less balanced approach with fast projectile and good precision as for L turrets with low damage so it can take out fighters more or less normally, also good at taking out components due to AOE damage but does not make a lot to L ships themselves.
If proximity fuse will be implemented it will be the best day in my life)

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Derp » Mon, 29. Apr 19, 22:19

What weapons do people like to use in this mod? So far most guns I've tried have been pretty underwhelming in one respect or another.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:14

Derp wrote:
Mon, 29. Apr 19, 22:19
What weapons do people like to use in this mod? So far most guns I've tried have been pretty underwhelming in one respect or another.
hi, what exactly was underwhelming? I tried my best to have a role for each weapon, you will not find THE BEST GUN in this mod, this is intentional.
Or do you mean graphics/sounds etc.?

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Tomonor » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:39

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:14
Derp wrote:
Mon, 29. Apr 19, 22:19
What weapons do people like to use in this mod? So far most guns I've tried have been pretty underwhelming in one respect or another.
hi, what exactly was underwhelming? I tried my best to have a role for each weapon, you will not find THE BEST GUN in this mod, this is intentional.
Or do you mean graphics/sounds etc.?
This is the result when you start nerfing assets. You will eventually hit people who got invested in a certain weapon type, only to find their previous favourite no longer behaves like it should. That's the reason behind gaming companies rarely nerfing anything, but buffing everything instead - no such negative psychological effects registers then.
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:45

repatomonor wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:39
This is the result when you start nerfing assets. You will eventually hit people who got invested in a certain weapon type, only to find their previous favourite no longer behaves like it should. That's the reason behind gaming companies rarely nerfing anything, but buffing everything instead - no such negative psychological effects registers then.
I am not a big company and expecting the mod to buff something is just absurd, the balance is redone from ground-up, what is the point of buffing if there is nothing to compare it to?

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Tomonor » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 12:37

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:45
repatomonor wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:39
This is the result when you start nerfing assets. You will eventually hit people who got invested in a certain weapon type, only to find their previous favourite no longer behaves like it should. That's the reason behind gaming companies rarely nerfing anything, but buffing everything instead - no such negative psychological effects registers then.
I am not a big company and expecting the mod to buff something is just absurd, the balance is redone from ground-up, what is the point of buffing if there is nothing to compare it to?
I know, and I didn't say it's wrong, I was merely trying to explain why negativity might occur with your balancing.
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 13:03

[quote=repatomonor post_id=4866291
I know, and I didn't say it's wrong, I was merely trying to explain why negativity might occur with your balancing.
[/quote]

I see, no offence taken, thanks
Anyway, I'll do my best to make what I can if anyone will have concrete feedback.
If there are weapons that really feel underwhelming in comparison to all other balance of the mod, let me know.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Derp » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 16:15

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:14
hi, what exactly was underwhelming? I tried my best to have a role for each weapon, you will not find THE BEST GUN in this mod, this is intentional.
I think the starting gun, the Pulse Laser I equivalent, is a sterling example. What is its role? It can't effectively damage anything it can effectively hit. Taking the random encounters as a baseline, it can't hit a Xenon M unless it's coming straight at me (in which case I need to be dodging), and it can only kill a kha'ak if I get on its butt and plink for a long while. Which suggests to me that its "role" is to indicate I need to buy a better gun, but which? The encyclopedia numbers are untrustworthy and the flavor text describes the currently equipped peashooter as a good all-around gun, so I can't put much stock in that either.

If you're explicitly designing a gun for a particular role, why not describe that role explicitly with a particular target? "Best use: burst damage, Xenon class M" would indicate it's meant to be an anti-fighter weapon to give to AIs who prefer short strafing runs, while "sustained DPS, Xenon class M" would be something I'd want to use myself.
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 13:03
If there are weapons that really feel underwhelming in comparison to all other balance of the mod, let me know.
Relevant bit in bold. That's why I was asking for others' favorite guns, to get a point of reference to compare to.

[ETA] I should add I'm not intending to be negative. I really like specialized sidegrades as balancing mechanisms, but there needs to be obvious general purpose options that the others are sidegrades of. Consider the weapon balancing of Team Fortress 2: hundreds of guns with wacky abilities catering to specific play styles, but for all that the stock weapons remain perfectly fine options.

[ETAA] While I'm posting, a quick balance question: how are missiles affected by the mod, in practice? I'm coming back to this after playing with ROR because even the fancy flagships would get wrecked within a minute by a handful of alpha-striking missile boats, so capital combat never really felt any more capital than vanilla.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by ActofSupremacy » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 17:43

Just curious, what's the plan for 2.50 compatibility? Since they are adding resupply ships I thought there might be a conflict with your incorporation of Faction Battleships.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 22:55

Derp wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 16:15
snip
maybe you are right about weapon description, ill think about it a bit more.
Just curious, what's the plan for 2.50 compatibility? Since they are adding resupply ships I thought there might be a conflict with your incorporation of Faction Battleships.
Internal build for 2.5 is ready and battleships have different names now, as well as many new fixes and new weapon - FLAK L turret. But this will go live after official release.

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