[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

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Coruskane
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Coruskane » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 17:44

I'm having some issues where fighters won't dock properly when in-sector on a number of ships, particularly Corona battleship, and also sometimes my player ship clips inside it when i command my pilot to land me. Is this a known VRO issue? (e.g. not sure if you changed the models at all?)

The fighters fly down then just hover over the docking bay, not proceeding with the last 10 metres.

My NPC fighters do not having docking computers - I wonder whether that actually would help them as NPC's or not

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 18:32

Coruskane wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 17:44
I'm having some issues where fighters won't dock properly when in-sector on a number of ships, particularly Corona battleship, and also sometimes my player ship clips inside it when i command my pilot to land me. Is this a known VRO issue? (e.g. not sure if you changed the models at all?)

The fighters fly down then just hover over the docking bay, not proceeding with the last 10 metres.

My NPC fighters do not having docking computers - I wonder whether that actually would help them as NPC's or not
The hovering over the docking bay thing is a vanilla bug. Can often be triggered when more than one ship comes in to dock at the same time. It happens less often than it did, but still occurs in v3.3 - I've not seen it happen in the 4.0 Beta though.

Scoob.

Rastuasi
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Rastuasi » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 20:18

Scoob wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 18:32
I've not seen it happen in the 4.0 Beta though.

Scoob.
I believe they have a line item in the patchnotes for the beta that they attempted to fix this.

Coruskane
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Coruskane » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 20:30

Rastuasi wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 20:18
Scoob wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 18:32
I've not seen it happen in the 4.0 Beta though.

Scoob.
I believe they have a line item in the patchnotes for the beta that they attempted to fix this.
ah ok cool. I figured they would've fixed that in the 2yrs since release in vanilla. But i suppose not :oops:

Here's to 4.0 being the panacea then...

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 22. Nov 20, 17:18

Rastuasi wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 17:09
Hornet108 wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 13:30
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 17. Nov 20, 21:34
Have no idea yet :) it came out like few hours ago, need to test many things
For what its worth im noticing behaviour with the weapons where the range seems to have a relationship with the camera distance? It seems odd, but I haven't reported it in the beta forums because im running such heavy modification
Perhaps it has to do with this? viewtopic.php?f=192&t=431204
it really is 4.0 issue

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Thu, 26. Nov 20, 20:04

Hey,

Did 4.0 Beta 2 sort the shield issue with VRO? I'm currently testing vanilla 4.0, but would like to be running a VRO game in parallel ideally.

I know it's not mentioned in the change notes, but as this is fixing an "under the hood" issue that only affect mods (as far as I'm aware) perhaps they didn't list it. Plus of course it's a regression as this issue was introduced, and fixed previously IIRC.

Cheers,

Scoob.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Thu, 26. Nov 20, 21:05

Scoob wrote:
Thu, 26. Nov 20, 20:04
Hey,

Did 4.0 Beta 2 sort the shield issue with VRO? I'm currently testing vanilla 4.0, but would like to be running a VRO game in parallel ideally.

I know it's not mentioned in the change notes, but as this is fixing an "under the hood" issue that only affect mods (as far as I'm aware) perhaps they didn't list it. Plus of course it's a regression as this issue was introduced, and fixed previously IIRC.

Cheers,

Scoob.
AFAIK its fixed now

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Thu, 26. Nov 20, 21:39

Shuulo wrote:
Thu, 26. Nov 20, 21:05
AFAIK its fixed now
Nice. So VRO should be playing nice with 4.0 now, to the best of your knowledge, or are there any other issues you're aware of?

Cheers,

Scoob.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 01:36

Not that im aware of, but its still beta, i may not know with 100% if something is broken from vanilla side.

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 14:57

Shuulo wrote:
Fri, 27. Nov 20, 01:36
Not that im aware of, but its still beta, i may not know with 100% if something is broken from vanilla side.
I have jumped in for a couple of hours in a fresh start and I'm not seeing any issue with VRO features thus far. If I encounter anything I'll be sure to report it here.

Scoob.

Max Bain
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Max Bain » Tue, 1. Dec 20, 13:00

Hey Shuulo,

as you have seen already, I have investigated the OOS problem I had yesterday. I already posted a detailed analysis in the OOS vs IS thread, but just that you dont miss it, here again:

[copy from my Faction Enhancer Mod post:]
As you might have seen, I created a thread about OOS vs IS combat behaviour (see this thread viewtopic.php?f=146&t=431670).

Yesterday in my tests I had very bad OOS vs IS behaviour. A fight which took over 30 minutes IS was lasting just a couple of seconds OOS. Today I made more tests but without any active mod and was surprised, that the results today were looking way better.
So my conclusion was, that one or more mods must be responsible for this behaviour. I knew that yesterday I had FE War module active because its not a balance changing mod (at least I was thinking this).

I made several new tests now and I could isolate the Faction Enhancer War module and VRO which have an effect on OOS combat balance speed.

I made four test runs with each mod activated and deactivated and stopped the time until all my ships were dead.
Here is my save game if you want to try it out yourself (I always started to stop when my fighters travelled about half the distance to the K - so about 10 sec after loading - dont forget to teleport out of sector before battle begins):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dgkhx0bz1ta5m ... ml.gz?dl=0

Here are the results for OOS:

FE War Module off
VRO off
Duration 3:30

FE War Module off
VRO on
Duration 2:00

FE War Module on
VRO off
Duration 1:10

FE War Module on
VRO on
Duration 0:50

In sector the battle lasted over 12 minutes


Conclusion: The FE War module is speeding up OOS combat significantly while not touching the ship or weapon balance at all.
I understand that VRO will also change OOS combat because it changes each module and each ship value, but still I think the other direction would be better where OOS combat would take longer instead of shorter (ccompared to vanilla).

Maybe if you can speed OOS up, you can also slow OOS down and improve OOS compared to vanilla?
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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 1. Dec 20, 14:26

Max Bain wrote:
Tue, 1. Dec 20, 13:00
Maybe if you can speed OOS up, you can also slow OOS down and improve OOS compared to vanilla?
Vanilla now has parameter for bullets to fully miss, they were not incorporated into VRO yet as im afraid it may break calculation for 3.3, so in VRO currently all shots land on target comparing to vanilla, thats why OOS is faster, in 3.3 IIRC it was closer to IS then in vanilla.
Will be updating and testing it a bit later

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Max Bain » Tue, 1. Dec 20, 15:12

I just tried it out myself with these parameters (I added only the new parameters from 4.0):

Code: Select all

<diff>
<replace sel="//parameters/lowattentioncombat"> 
  <!-- VRO approach -->
  <lowattentioncombat>
	<attack firingarea="40000000" laserweaponfactor="1.1" missileweaponfactor="0.8" turretfactor="0.75" dronebulletfactor="0.3" dronemissilefactor="0.2" minspeed="70" surfaceelementchance="0.15" surfaceelementfactor="0.7" shieldgeneratorchance="0.35" missilehitfactor="0.3" guidedmissilehitfactor="0.8" bullethitfactor="0.4" beamhitfactor="0.9" />
    <defence maneouverfactor="0.4" minspeed="25" maxsize="180.0" sizefactor="0.35" capshipfactor="2.45" countermeasurefactor="0.7" dronedistractionfactor="0.004" dronedamageamount="18000"/>
  </lowattentioncombat>
</replace>
</diff> 
But the result has not changed (in fact its nearly the exact same as before). I guess a bit more fine tuning is necessary to improve it significantly :(. They might have changed somthing in the engine.

I just tested in sector performance:

After about 6 minutes the K was destroyed and still over 20 S ships were alive. Battle lasts over about 15 minutes.


Edit:
I have tested several hours now in two different test szenarios (with VRO) and here are my values so far:
Edit 2: new values edited after several hours of more testing and fine tuning.

Code: Select all

		
		<attack firingarea="36000000" laserweaponfactor="1.40" missileweaponfactor="1.00" turretfactor="1.10" dronebulletfactor="0.10" dronemissilefactor="0.122" minspeed="70" surfaceelementchance="0.15" surfaceelementfactor="0.7" shieldgeneratorchance="0.2" missilehitfactor="0.25" guidedmissilehitfactor="0.8" bullethitfactor="0.4" beamhitfactor="0.8" />
		<defence maneouverfactor="0.8" minspeed="50" maxsize="150.0" sizefactor="0.8" capshipfactor="1.00" countermeasurefactor="0.7" dronedistractionfactor="0.003" dronedamageamount="40000"/>
	  
In both szenarios the results were way better than vanilla. In one they matched even the IS results (IS the K got destroyed in 6:00 minutes in OOS in 5:50) and in both szenarios I nearly lost the same amount of S ships.
In another szenario it was a bit more difficult to compare because I tested an XL ship vs another one with support and the big ships always spread their firepower over nearly all targets. So the results here are not so good comparable.

I might fine tune them in the future when I see big differences between IS and OOS, but I am not playing right now. So feel free to use them as a base for your own values.
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yarglub
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by yarglub » Fri, 18. Dec 20, 01:21

hello!
i love this mod, just one little question, it's normal that the "TEL L Positron beam turret" can only be install on the condor vanguard?
i have a petrel, but cannot install this turret...

Rastuasi
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Rastuasi » Fri, 18. Dec 20, 05:10

yarglub wrote:
Fri, 18. Dec 20, 01:21
hello!
i love this mod, just one little question, it's normal that the "TEL L Positron beam turret" can only be install on the condor vanguard?
i have a petrel, but cannot install this turret...
yes if you read mod description, there are specific hardpoint mounted turrets that the mod dev created just for those ships to make them unique.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 18. Dec 20, 17:14

Positron beam turret is also usable on 2 out of 6 mounts of their Fulmar Battleship

yarglub
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by yarglub » Sat, 19. Dec 20, 15:09

ok, thanks!

Sam97531
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Sam97531 » Sat, 26. Dec 20, 06:36

Just discovered this mod and really enjoying it.

I actually waited to just last week to get back into the X-series after X:TC and X:3AP. While I enjoy this game (I skipped XR after several dozen hours of really trying to like it), I felt the "arcady" problem you described. I didnt like the fact I could dog-fight in corvettes as well as I could in heavy fighters (or better sometimes). I was about to embark on my own mod before finding yours - great job!

I' m curious as to how you'll approach Cradle of Humanity. distinctly remember Terran/ATF fighters being top notch (especially in the players hands - man that Spitfyr and Springblossom... jeez). Any thoughts on what your paradigm approach is/will be for that? Any thoughts?

I've always liked having more meaningful choices in games with a large selection of craft or "equipment" like this. Of course there will always be a meta but if keep the field rich enough, there will be meta, counter meta, side-grades rather than pure upgrades and so on. So once again, awesome job and keep up the great work!

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 26. Dec 20, 14:14

Sam97531 wrote:
Sat, 26. Dec 20, 06:36
I' m curious as to how you'll approach Cradle of Humanity. distinctly remember Terran/ATF fighters being top notch (especially in the players hands - man that Spitfyr and Springblossom... jeez). Any thoughts on what your paradigm approach is/will be for that? Any thoughts?
I honestly don't know, i need to get my hands on DLC first, check what ships are there, what weapons and effects are there and think how i can redo them, but terran tech is more advanced per lore, so ill focus on making them stronger but more specialized than commonwealth ships/weapons.

Sam97531
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Sam97531 » Sun, 27. Dec 20, 01:44

That is great - and yeah I’m supportive of your approach! :) always remembered the Terran as having best on paper but eight little in the way of of customization especially for weapons!

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