[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

[unit757]

The changed to missile ROF was nice, but they definitely did not need that damage buff. They are still WAY to powerful compared to other turrets, especially considering they are a more or less a guaranteed hit on another capital ship, while most other turrets still struggle to hit even a stationary target at times.

[Shuulo]

The changed to missile ROF was nice, but they definitely did not need that damage buff. They are still WAY to powerful compared to other turrets, especially considering they are a more or less a guaranteed hit on another capital ship, while most other turrets still struggle to hit even a stationary target at times.

Thanks for feedback. Can anyone else let me know his thoughts on this? I will consider to re balance missiles a bit.

[Quellix]

Yo, Great mod so far love the changes!

Tho, any news on a patch for 'Ashipmods' A.K.A Rise of the Ossain Raider?

Good luck on your modding journey!

[Zaidman]

I love this mod. It's night and day compared to vanilla.
However I do have some issues with the balance.

Beamer weapons are just horrible. Both S and M class. They deal almost no damage. I think those weapons should be best against small fast targets, but now they are just useless.
Ion weapons should deal way more damage to shields to be worth taken. Now they are better that beamers, but every other weapon is superior.
Chain gun and autocannon are no brainer for S class ships. If you nerf them a little, plasma and shotgun weapons will be able to get their place on my ships.
Demolisher Cannons are insane, they just obliterate everything. Both damage and projectile speed can be lower.

All M turrets seem to be well balanced and useful in their own unique way. Maybe plasma turrets can deal a little more damage but have slower projectiles to compensate.
Except for Scatter Turrets. Those are just useless. Can't hit anything and don't deal any damage if they do.

All missiles and torpedos are expensive, slow, bothersome to replenish and don't deal enough damage to compensate for the trouble.
They are only good at killing boarding pods. For some reason when I launch boarding pods all enemy missile turrets start shooting. Even those which cant see the pods.

Eclipse is too good. There is no reason to take any other fighter. Maybe give him 5000 HP instead of 10000? That would be logical because of how he looks.
Osprey is too slow and clumsy. If he had 1 extra shield that would be ok, but now he is just bad in every way and extra HP don't compensate for that.

Minotaur hits himself with his cannons when shooting behind. I don't know, maybe it's vanilla behavior.

I feel the prices for S class Chassis are too low. The price for components makes more than 90% of the final ship price. And there is no price variation for better/worse ships. Maybe you could make them dependent on how many weapon+shield slots they have. For example apply some no-brainer formula like
(original chassis price)*((shield slots)+(weapon slots)-3)


I tried a couple of different rebalance mods and your mod still is way better.
Maybe others will not agree with my ideas but I think another view can help to start a conversation or find a good solution that will make the game even more enjoyable.

Anyways good luck with your mod and don't forget about compatibility mod with Ossian Raider.

[Shuulo]

snip

Thanks for the feedback. I do agree with some points on balance, it's always a hard task to get it right if you are doing a full rebalance, especially taking vanilla bad balance and different bugs with oos combat into consideration.

I guess I'll buff ions and some scatter weapons, but not missiles, otherwise they will obliterate everything in oos combat.
As for slow plasma - slow projectile speed is setting I hate in vanilla and was one the reasons why I starter VRO, so no, I will not make it slower

[Warnoise]

I tried Theseus sentinel with this mod. I think it got way over nefred. Not only it has only 460 max speed wih mk3 engines (compared to 600~ for similar sized ships) it handles like an L ships It turns very slowly making it very hard to fight vs agile fighters (it gets demolished by khaak)

It would be great if it gets a speed and agility buff so it can be useful as an S fighter.

[Shuulo]

I tried Theseus sentinel with this mod. I think it got way over nefred. Not only it has only 460 max speed wih mk3 engines (compared to 600~ for similar sized ships) it handles like an L ships It turns very slowly making it very hard to fight vs agile fighters (it gets demolished by khaak)

It would be great if it gets a speed and agility buff so it can be useful as an S fighter.

Thats not how it should behave, while speed is more or less ok (im not sure what 600m/s you mean for other fighters, Paranid ships should be fastest) but agility should not be of an L ship.
Ill check.

[Warnoise]

Does anyone else think that M class ships are less maneuverable than they should be? They should strafe a little more quickly in my opinion. Now there is no way to dodge incoming shots (even from far away).

If i entered the fire range of a Xenon K with a Nemesis Sentinel, it is 100% death for me.

Also it seems that L class destroyers don't use their main guns, anyone else can confirm?

[Wonsz]

I believe that M's are where they should be - between fighters and capital ships. With my Cerberus Sentinel I can ALMOST track Xen M or N circling around me, sometimes I can predict it's moves and use main guns against it. I shouldn't be able to do more than that with a ship heavier by three classes (I'm counting heavy fighters and lighter M class, like ARG bombers or PAR corvettes).

And since it's my first post in this thread - thank you for the mod, great job that made my game much more fun

[Scoob]

I think there are just certain targets you'd not send M-Class ships against, whereas a more heavily shielded Destroyer or nimble fighters are fine. When issuing manual orders, this is easy to micro-manage. However, as we're yet to gain more sophisticated Stances, a bit like standing orders, where we can tailor target profiles as we wish, we're sorted stuck if ships are on patrol.

The ship balance offered by VRO is pretty much spot on in my view, it's up to Egosoft - or perhaps it's mod'able - to give us greater control of ship behaviours when said ships are following a more general command such as Patrol. Even X3 had something better than X4, in the form of "Attack Fighter" and "Attack Capitals" where a ship or wings target priority could be prioritised. However, what we need is a "Run away from..." type Behaviour to protect ships that are particular vulnerable to a certain other ship. Being able to weight things, i.e. based on relative numbers, would be very useful too.

Basically, irrespective of ship balance, our ability to influence their behaviour needs to be enhanced. I'm not sure if this is possible via a mod, and I doubt it's in the scope of VRO even if it is.

Scoob.

[Shuulo]

Basically, irrespective of ship balance, our ability to influence their behaviour needs to be enhanced. I'm not sure if this is possible via a mod, and I doubt it's in the scope of VRO even if it is.

Not the scope of VRO, but I will be happy if someone will mod new behaviors in, im not that good with AI modding.

[Shuulo]

Also it seems that L class destroyers don't use their main guns, anyone else can confirm?

You may just not notice it, as it is now a long-range artillery cannon with looow rate of fire, so it takes some time to observe it in action.

[Warnoise]

Is it possible to make torpedoes only exclusive to bomber class ships in a future update?

[Shuulo]

Is it possible to make torpedoes only exclusive to bomber class ships in a future update?

it would take to much of a work currently and not all will like it.
I plan to add additional weapon slot to bombers though, something like energy-plasma bomb, slow speed high damage gun only for bombers.

[Warnoise]

Is it possible to make torpedoes only exclusive to bomber class ships in a future update?

it would take to much of a work currently and not all will like it.
I plan to add additional weapon slot to bombers though, something like energy-plasma bomb, slow speed high damage gun only for bombers.

That sounds awesome! Hopefully they will have long range.

Can't wait for what this mod will bring in the future!

[Warnoise]

I have problem, i dont know if it is related to this mod. It seems i cant build gorgon sentinel from hop wharf. It just stays in queue forever (even though i feed the sation hull parts like crazy) and NPC ships always get ahead in queue.

Another crazy thing is that a gorgon sentinel requires about 1300 Hull part which is crazy considering wharf can only hold 8k hull part in the storage

Anyone else has this problem?

[Shuulo]

I have problem, i dont know if it is related to this mod. It seems i cant build gorgon sentinel from hop wharf. It just stays in queue forever (even though i feed the sation hull parts like crazy) and NPC ships always get ahead in queue.

Another crazy thing is that a gorgon sentinel requires about 1300 Hull part which is crazy considering wharf can only hold 8k hull part in the storage

Anyone else has this problem?

This is not related to VRO.
Hopefully it should be fixed in 2.6, you can try it in beta now.

[LameFox]

Weird question but does this make any changes to boarding? Besides invul M turrets I mean.

I took over a phoenix this morning using just a disco vanguard and a single marine... all their crew but one gradually ejected and flew away while I sat under it ion-shotgunning various components, while he was sitting on its hull in the pre-breach phase. Then I cancelled the other ships that were (slowly) arriving and he took it alone.

idk if that's some obscure vanilla thing or what but I haven't taken any ships quite like that before.

[Shuulo]

Weird question but does this make any changes to boarding? Besides invul M turrets I mean.

I took over a phoenix this morning using just a disco vanguard and a single marine... all their crew but one gradually ejected and flew away while I sat under it ion-shotgunning various components, while he was sitting on its hull in the pre-breach phase. Then I cancelled the other ships that were (slowly) arriving and he took it alone.

idk if that's some obscure vanilla thing or what but I haven't taken any ships quite like that before.

As far as I know this is Vanilla behavior, VRO does no changes to boarding or crew capacities at all.

[Buzz2005]

How the hell do I kill a M xenon with a pulsar

Im dead after a couple of hits