[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

[Scoob]

Hi Shuulo,

I saw your post on the Beta forum regarding right-click issues. Upon continuing my current 4.1 Beta 4 game in Beta 5, I've lost all right-click functionality. I'm using VRO of course, as well as some other mods, and wondered if you had any update I could apply to my game to continue playing. I see you appear to have identified the problem as being down to a typo - something the prior Beta did not have an issue with. No big deal of course, it's fine if you only want to show anything once v4.1 is live and any other issues have been ironed out, just thought I'd ask.

Currently playing around with the custom starts feature in vanilla in the meantime, it looks like it's going to be very nice.

Cheers,

Scoob.

[Shuulo]

Hi Shuulo,

I saw your post on the Beta forum regarding right-click issues. Upon continuing my current 4.1 Beta 4 game in Beta 5, I've lost all right-click functionality. I'm using VRO of course, as well as some other mods, and wondered if you had any update I could apply to my game to continue playing. I see you appear to have identified the problem as being down to a typo - something the prior Beta did not have an issue with. No big deal of course, it's fine if you only want to show anything once v4.1 is live and any other issues have been ironed out, just thought I'd ask.

Currently playing around with the custom starts feature in vanilla in the meantime, it looks like it's going to be very nice.

Cheers,

Scoob.

Update SirNukes API mod, it seems typo added more to it but that mod was the main reason. SiNukes already updated it.

[Scoob]

Update SirNukes API mod, it seems typo added more to it but that mod was the main reason. SiNukes already updated it.

Thanks Shuulo, will update as you suggest.

Scoob.

[AtilaElari]

I also have a concern about Cyclon M turret. I did a few skirmishes where my capital ships were engaged by fighters. In pretty much every circumstance ships with CIWS outperformed Cyclons by a large margin.
It is my understanding that Cyclon is supposed to be a weapon against nimble ships, having no projectile travel time. But the low tracking speed combined with low range means that most fighters can outrun the turret's tracking. CIWS on the other hand has fast tracking and fast projectiles, with way higher DPS agains fast target.

Perhaps lower the Cyclon's damage while raising its tracking, to cement it as a weapon against Combat Drones and light fighters?

Interestingly Terran Meson Lance turrets don't have that issue.

[AtilaElari]

Could you point out what parts of the code correspond to the Hull values of station modules?
I think that the game may become much more dynamic if station defence modules were significntly weaker and I would like to test that but you probably won't make a branch of the mod just for my amusement. Could you tell me how to find hit-points values for defensive modules?

[Shuulo]

Could you point out what parts of the code correspond to the Hull values of station modules?
I think that the game may become much more dynamic if station defence modules were significntly weaker and I would like to test that but you probably won't make a branch of the mod just for my amusement. Could you tell me how to find hit-points values for defensive modules?

Hi, VRO updates them - \extensions\VRO\assets\structures\defence\macros\....

[AtilaElari]

I assume that's a part of the code referring to Teladi disc platform. It has two Hull Max= lines. Which one do I need to change?

Spoiler

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<replace sel="//macros/macro[@name='defence_tel_disc_01_macro']/properties/hull">
<hull max="363200" />
</replace> 
</diff>
<!-- 
<macros>
  <macro name="defence_tel_disc_01_macro" class="defencemodule">
    <component ref="defence_tel_disc_01" />
    <properties>
      <identification name="{20104,40801}" shortname="{20104,40803}" makerrace="teladi" description="{20104,40802}" />
      <build>
        <sets>
          <set ref="factory" />
          <set ref="headquarters_player" />
          <set ref="tradestation_teladi" />
          <set ref="piratebase" />
        </sets>
      </build>
      <explosiondamage value="12000" />
      <storage unit="15" />
      <hull max="65800" />
      <secrecy level="3" />
    </properties>
  </macro>
</macros> --><?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!--Exported by: Florian (192.168.3.134) at 06.11.2018_13-51-10-->

[Shuulo]

I assume that's a part of the code referring to Teladi disc platform. It has two Hull Max= lines. Which one do I need to change?

Spoiler

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Code: Select all

<replace sel="//macros/macro[@name='defence_tel_disc_01_macro']/properties/hull">
<hull max="363200" />
</replace> 
</diff>
<!-- 
<macros>
  <macro name="defence_tel_disc_01_macro" class="defencemodule">
    <component ref="defence_tel_disc_01" />
    <properties>
      <identification name="{20104,40801}" shortname="{20104,40803}" makerrace="teladi" description="{20104,40802}" />
      <build>
        <sets>
          <set ref="factory" />
          <set ref="headquarters_player" />
          <set ref="tradestation_teladi" />
          <set ref="piratebase" />
        </sets>
      </build>
      <explosiondamage value="12000" />
      <storage unit="15" />
      <hull max="65800" />
      <secrecy level="3" />
    </properties>
  </macro>
</macros> --><?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!--Exported by: Florian (192.168.3.134) at 06.11.2018_13-51-10-->

only first one, below is the commented out vanilla code for reference. better install XML language suppport to whatever editor you use so you can see that

[AtilaElari]

Thank you. Also, how is OOS combat determined? Is OOS combat strength some sort of an emergent property, or each part has a combat strengrh score defined as a number somewhere in the code?

[AtilaElari]

And what software do you use to work this file? Notepad++ opens half of it in broken code and corrupts it on saving.

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x&€›Ô&îâ	-Ïæö„

[rusky]

Hey, I've been having a lot of fun playing X4 with VRO lately so figured I'd leave some feedback!

I did end up making my own small mod of VRO to adjust some things to my liking. In particular, one change I noticed you are already considering: I have removed the buff to NPC defense platform health and also nerfed Xenon station health by about 200%! (Apparently this was vanilla, but a typical xenon solar power plant in my game had over 20 Mil hp, which coupled with the very deadly weapons resulted in failed attempts at taking it down with a fleet of 3 battleships and 3 destroyers, both IS and OOS).

I have also buffed ship hull values across the board, and the internal generators, while increasing weapon damage to compensate. Overall this resulted in ships being stronger relative to stations in general, especially coupled with the station hull value nerfs.
You might think this was overkill, but before these changes I played the game for a total of 4+ days and I think I only noticed 1 sector changing owner (to the xenon) despite using FOCW (with medium+ settings) and Faction enhancer.
Stations are still dangerous after the changes but are no longer immortal bastions that can hold off armadas by themselves.

Also, I've been playing a split game, with the dynamic relations mod, and I'm RPing helping the Zyarth Patriarchy conquer the galaxy. So I'm mostly/only using Split tech. The only other tech I could get my hands on so far is some Teladi stuff.

One thing I noticed is the Split L Turret Mass driver is very poor relative to other similar guns.
It's meant to be a special split anti capital weapon, but compared to the Teladi Gauss is worse in every way (less damage, less range, same everything else, except for the small amount of shield pierce which is not that great against capitals).

I think you should buff it

In my game, I buffed it by making it fire in 3 round bursts to keep with the Split dakka approach, and having an overall slightly better dps (as most other split guns) than other similar capital weapons (esp considering it's shorter range).

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the work, this is a great mod, and has had me enjoy X4 greatly, please keep working on it!

[AtilaElari]

I did end up making my own small mod of VRO to adjust some things to my liking.

Those changes look like what I was thinking about. Could you share the altered mod file you created?

[rusky]

I did end up making my own small mod of VRO to adjust some things to my liking.

Those changes look like what I was thinking about. Could you share the altered mod file you created?

Here you go: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L8xkad ... sp=sharing

This has optional support for XR_Shippack / XR_Shippack_VRO since I was playing with them at the time, but no support for Extra ships/weapons mods.

Also @Shuulo: I think I spotted a typo in the Rattlesnake internal shield gen when I was messing about, pretty sure it's missing a 0!

[AtilaElari]

Thank you! Although I wonder, why did you choose to buff all the shields and weapons rather than simply decrease station Hull values, if your goal was to make stations more vulnerable?

[rusky]

I also just generally wanted to make the ships a bit more durable and amplify the variation from ship class to class a bit. Again this is just my own personal taste (low effort) modification
Overall it's still very close to vanilla VRO though, you might not immediately notice a huge difference when fighting/looking at fleet battles.

EDIT: I actually just realised I messed up the initial package I uploaded since I had just deleted some of the files in vro manually. Oops!

Reuploaded as proper mod now!

Also here's a different version with just some small changes to stations instead of all the other stuff:

* Remove defence platform hp buff
* Nerf xenon base station hp

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZXSMBq ... sp=sharing

Do note that I play with various mods that buff xenon presence so maybe the xenon nerf isn't needed in your game. You can just delete the 2 xenon macro files in the mod then.

[AtilaElari]

Did you also change projectile speed or tracking of turrets? I'm noticing that Fusion Butst L turrets are now capable of inflicting notable casualties on my fighter squadrons, while they were nearly harmless before.

[rusky]

Only weapons change is increased damage per shot to compensate the extra hp of ships.
I imagine one of the side effects is that relative to the hp of a fighter, a large turret now does more damage when it hits. I wouldn't expect L turrets to do much against fighters still though unless there's only a handful of them and all turrets are focusing.

I recommend using this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/645/ if you're using fighters against capital ships, and use the "Attack. Disable all subs" or such when attacking. This will considerably reduce incoming damage as the turrets will be stripped by your fighters pretty quick.
Interestingly, I noticed this is the default behaviour of S/M ships attacking capitals OOS (both your ships and NPC ships). It's why I often see xenon I's running around with no turrets.

Also a good reason to make sure you escort your capitals with something that can take out fighters!

[AtilaElari]

Are you sure you changed Split station parameters as well? I just seen 2 Xenon I's and 1 V getting wrecked by a Split Solar Plant.

[rusky]

Are you sure you changed Split station parameters as well? I just seen 2 Xenon I's and 1 V getting wrecked by a Split Solar Plant.

Yes, but make sure you redownload if you have the first upload I put up a few hours ago, I messed up the packaging.

Also, reductions in hp don't work like you'd expect in an ongoing game. The max hull of something changes to the new max but the current stays as what it was until that object is damaged/detroyed/recreated via script.
So you might see stations with 180% hp for example etc until they get damaged enough to the new, lower, max.

Try inspecting the I and seeing what it's turrets look like. I often seen xenon capital ships get stripped by roaming fighter squads. They can't kill it but they make it a harmless lump that drifts around looking scary.

Btw happy to answer anything specific to my little modmod in PM if you have any other questions, as this is not really pertaining to VRO.

[Sam97531]

Quick question all,

I also am long time user of VRO. but I really want something more minimalist when it comes to a vanilla change.

I want only a slight boost to survivability, but I do want that variation between fighters and M class that was so good in X3.

As I start fooling around with a mod that does that, is there no way that these modifications can be applied generally to size of ship? Do changes have to be applied on each specific ship separately ?