[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

[Tomonor]

This is the result when you start nerfing assets. You will eventually hit people who got invested in a certain weapon type, only to find their previous favourite no longer behaves like it should. That's the reason behind gaming companies rarely nerfing anything, but buffing everything instead - no such negative psychological effects registers then.

I am not a big company and expecting the mod to buff something is just absurd, the balance is redone from ground-up, what is the point of buffing if there is nothing to compare it to?

I know, and I didn't say it's wrong, I was merely trying to explain why negativity might occur with your balancing.

[Shuulo]

[quote=repatomonor post_id=4866291
I know, and I didn't say it's wrong, I was merely trying to explain why negativity might occur with your balancing.
[/quote]

I see, no offence taken, thanks
Anyway, I'll do my best to make what I can if anyone will have concrete feedback.
If there are weapons that really feel underwhelming in comparison to all other balance of the mod, let me know.

[Derp]

hi, what exactly was underwhelming? I tried my best to have a role for each weapon, you will not find THE BEST GUN in this mod, this is intentional.

I think the starting gun, the Pulse Laser I equivalent, is a sterling example. What is its role? It can't effectively damage anything it can effectively hit. Taking the random encounters as a baseline, it can't hit a Xenon M unless it's coming straight at me (in which case I need to be dodging), and it can only kill a kha'ak if I get on its butt and plink for a long while. Which suggests to me that its "role" is to indicate I need to buy a better gun, but which? The encyclopedia numbers are untrustworthy and the flavor text describes the currently equipped peashooter as a good all-around gun, so I can't put much stock in that either.

If you're explicitly designing a gun for a particular role, why not describe that role explicitly with a particular target? "Best use: burst damage, Xenon class M" would indicate it's meant to be an anti-fighter weapon to give to AIs who prefer short strafing runs, while "sustained DPS, Xenon class M" would be something I'd want to use myself.

If there are weapons that really feel underwhelming in comparison to all other balance of the mod, let me know.

Relevant bit in bold. That's why I was asking for others' favorite guns, to get a point of reference to compare to.

[ETA] I should add I'm not intending to be negative. I really like specialized sidegrades as balancing mechanisms, but there needs to be obvious general purpose options that the others are sidegrades of. Consider the weapon balancing of Team Fortress 2: hundreds of guns with wacky abilities catering to specific play styles, but for all that the stock weapons remain perfectly fine options.

[ETAA] While I'm posting, a quick balance question: how are missiles affected by the mod, in practice? I'm coming back to this after playing with ROR because even the fancy flagships would get wrecked within a minute by a handful of alpha-striking missile boats, so capital combat never really felt any more capital than vanilla.

[ActofSupremacy]

Just curious, what's the plan for 2.50 compatibility? Since they are adding resupply ships I thought there might be a conflict with your incorporation of Faction Battleships.

[Shuulo]

snip

maybe you are right about weapon description, ill think about it a bit more.

Just curious, what's the plan for 2.50 compatibility? Since they are adding resupply ships I thought there might be a conflict with your incorporation of Faction Battleships.

Internal build for 2.5 is ready and battleships have different names now, as well as many new fixes and new weapon - FLAK L turret. But this will go live after official release.

[Derp]

Trying to test out weapons more methodically raised a bigger problem: some of the weapon effects are freezing my game. The "plasma incinerator" (M Plasma II) reliably reproduced the problem whenever it hit anything within hit-effect rendering distance. Tagging a P at the limit of its range was okay, but as soon as I got close enough to see the projectile hit, it'd freeze and thrash the cpu. Stuck in an infinite loop maybe?

Running Steam version on Linux with a decent Nvidia card, if there's any kind of diagnostic I can spit out to help track the problem.

[ETA] Playing with graphics settings seems to have fixed the problem. FXAA -> MSAA

[Shuulo]

Trying to test out weapons more methodically raised a bigger problem: some of the weapon effects are freezing my game. The "plasma incinerator" (M Plasma II) reliably reproduced the problem whenever it hit anything within hit-effect rendering distance. Tagging a P at the limit of its range was okay, but as soon as I got close enough to see the projectile hit, it'd freeze and thrash the cpu. Stuck in an infinite loop maybe?

Running Steam version on Linux with a decent Nvidia card, if there's any kind of diagnostic I can spit out to help track the problem.

[ETA] Playing with graphics settings seems to have fixed the problem. FXAA -> MSAA

That is really weird, it's totally fine on my end, seems to be something specific to Linux build maybe.

[Derp]

Yeah, it's still happening, just not as often. Definitely the weapon hit effect that's causing the freezes.
https://imgur.com/a/hVrUsbS

Here's a shot of a P getting hit on the left hand side of the screen:
https://imgur.com/a/AwcjoPu

Is there some way of disabling just the plasma incinerator effect? I can avoid them myself, but I can't tell the Argon militia to stop using them.

[ETA] Setting effect distance to 0 will remove the graphical effect, but not the freeze:
https://imgur.com/a/gVyrv79

So.... damifino. Guess I'll just have to avoid IS combat until 2.5 hits, maybe that'll help stability.

[Shuulo]

Yeah, it's still happening, just not as often. Definitely the weapon hit effect that's causing the freezes.
https://imgur.com/a/hVrUsbS

Here's a shot of a P getting hit on the left hand side of the screen:
https://imgur.com/a/AwcjoPu

Is there some way of disabling just the plasma incinerator effect? I can avoid them myself, but I can't tell the Argon militia to stop using them.

[ETA] Setting effect distance to 0 will remove the graphical effect, but not the freeze:
https://imgur.com/a/gVyrv79

So.... damifino. Guess I'll just have to avoid IS combat until 2.5 hits, maybe that'll help stability.

Does it happen to incinerator only? If yes, than it is very weird, because its impact effect is shared among ALL small and medium plasma weapons, its just the same entry in effects library.
Can you try other plasma weapons?

[mr.WHO]

Hey Shuulo, is it possible to make destroyer man guns a bit more like a railguns from the Expanse? I mean charge up effect and bullet trail.

https://youtu.be/qLPhr8tiCp0?t=48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIFSZfKTUKA

MAC cannon from Halo reach also is very good reference:
https://youtu.be/uQotXEcsDEU?t=1644

[Derp]

Yeah, it's still happening, just not as often. Definitely the weapon hit effect that's causing the freezes.
https://imgur.com/a/hVrUsbS

Here's a shot of a P getting hit on the left hand side of the screen:
https://imgur.com/a/AwcjoPu

Is there some way of disabling just the plasma incinerator effect? I can avoid them myself, but I can't tell the Argon militia to stop using them.

[ETA] Setting effect distance to 0 will remove the graphical effect, but not the freeze:
https://imgur.com/a/gVyrv79

So.... damifino. Guess I'll just have to avoid IS combat until 2.5 hits, maybe that'll help stability.

Does it happen to incinerator only? If yes, than it is very weird, because its impact effect is shared among ALL small and medium plasma weapons, its just the same entry in effects library.
Can you try other plasma weapons?

Just the incinerator. Something about the cluster of hits maybe? I don't know. I found your github, and I think I'll just remove the weapon from AI fleets and not worry about it if it's all the same to you. Incidentally your Apr 27 commit breaks the consumables menu.

[Shuulo]

Just the incinerator. Something about the cluster of hits maybe? I don't know. I found your github, and I think I'll just remove the weapon from AI fleets and not worry about it if it's all the same to you. Incidentally your Apr 27 commit breaks the consumables menu.

Because, obliviously, my github is WIP and contains not released version.

[o-papaya-o]

Hi, I translated your mod into French, if you want the translation, tell me.

[Shuulo]

Hi, I translated your mod into French, if you want the translation, tell me.

Wow, would be nice to have it
Did you join x4 discord? We can get in contact there.

[o-papaya-o]

I can not find the X4 server on discord

[o-papaya-o]

ok, i'm on discord x4 modding. pseudo PaPaYa

[scav_n_ger]

Would you consider making a windows 7 (documents/extensions) compatible version?

[turosp]

This mod sounds very promising, any chance it would work with 2.50 beta4 ?

[Shuulo]

This mod sounds very promising, any chance it would work with 2.50 beta4 ?

No, im holding till we get full 2.5 release as they may change few things in later betas. And I do not really want to fix bugs that are beta-related.
Also, if I release now it may not work with 2.21, and that is what most people play.

[turosp]

...

No, im holding till we get full 2.5 release as they may change few things in later betas. And I do not really want to fix bugs that are beta-related.
Also, if I release now it may not work with 2.21, and that is what most people play.

Yea, good point! I wanted to start a new game anyway, I'll do it with your mod then