[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

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Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Wed, 30. Sep 20, 16:31

Shuulo wrote:
Wed, 30. Sep 20, 02:34
Go to encyclopedia - shields, all internal shields should be there, for Nova variants as well.

As for Titan - its originally Brummbear's ship, I took it with his permission, so you better off sending the feedback to him in this thread.
Cool, I'll double-check the Encyclopedia entry. I forgot that each ship's internal shield is a shield in its own right. As an aside, and not linked to VRO, I do think the game should provide more information on the Ship screen as going off to look up stuff in the Encyclopaedia each time is quite clunky.

Ok, I'll pop over that that thread.

Scoob.

aurumgallente
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by aurumgallente » Fri, 2. Oct 20, 00:37

Request.
Change reward for some mission types like repair satellite or repair data leaks. VRO makes many missions not relevant, they are not time efficient and I can't say the same about those quests in vanilla game. Fast transports kill the balance of space suit missions.

Many gunboats have additional primary weapon and I can see small floating cube where those weapons are. Can you apply transparent texture to the cube or hide it somehow?

Is it possible to decrease recharge rate of teladi shields? And for some reason teladi M travel engine has the best travel speed, it's not OK. Teladi ships should be tough, agile and slow so it's better to trade some speed of teladi M travel engines to pitch/yaw/roll or acceleration.

I'm not sure but race versions of M turrets have not very good balance. Most of Argon turrets have better tracking and the same dps and all turrets of the same type have the same range. I don't know what for people should chose paranid or teladi turrets if they have access to Argon variants. HP of the turrets makes sense only for L ships so turrets with slow tracking speed should have better dps or effective range, or be significantly cheaper.

Sentinel versions of drone carriers (Osprey, Cerberus, etc) should carry more than one fighter. Two for Cerberus and three for Osprey should be OK. Amount of drones should be decreased for OOS reasons.

Polofix
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Polofix » Fri, 2. Oct 20, 13:59

Polofix wrote:
Wed, 30. Sep 20, 09:12
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 29. Sep 20, 17:50

weird, nothing conflicting id say.
any other ship has the same issue?

Edit: tested on my side, all is fine, did anyone else encounter this issue?
Hello,
maybe it is because of the long german description.
Too much text may cause problems.

I haven't tried the other ships yet, I'll do that tonight. It's a pity that you can't reproduce the error.
I will stay on it.
Hello,
I have now tested this.

With all the ships I tested, no error occurred.
(I could not test every ship, but most of them)

It seems to concern only the Titan.

I wanted to build the Titan again. Unfortunately the Argon shipyard does not build XL ships anymore. It was quite damaged by the Xenon and then rebuilt. The XL Dock was destroyed and was rebuilt. And now I cannot build XL ships there anymore. All resources are 80-100% available. It is also no longer possible to equip XL ships at the shipyard.
There is no ship in the dock that is blocked the dock. The building order is at the top of the queue, but the building is not started. Ships to be upgraded are in the dock and then nothing happens. (Waited with Sinza one hour)
But this only concerns XL ships, not L ships. The shipyard is 100% repaired.
All other shipyards work. And again a new problem. But this is only a side issue. And not the topic here.

One more thing, the following ships do not appear in the building list:

New Corona Battleship (based on Nomad hull).
New Deimos Battleship (based on Atlas hull).
New Fulmar Battleship (based on Stork hull).

is this normal ?

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 2. Oct 20, 18:16

Polofix wrote:
Fri, 2. Oct 20, 13:59
One more thing, the following ships do not appear in the building list:

New Corona Battleship (based on Nomad hull).
New Deimos Battleship (based on Atlas hull).
New Fulmar Battleship (based on Stork hull).

is this normal ?
This means that you are using XR shippack, it removes VRO battleships that use Aux ships models

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Malakie
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Malakie » Mon, 5. Oct 20, 03:29

Shuulo wrote:
Sat, 12. Sep 20, 11:32
Malakie wrote:
Sat, 12. Sep 20, 06:20
Decided to give this a try.... My ships have no weapons when I go to refit them... i.e. nothing is listed in the wharf itself as weapons I can fit to a ship I am trying to update or change.

Any ideas?
Did you enabled the mod mid-game? VRO requires new save game as there are a lot of changes, specifically to weapons.
If not, do you have Split DLC? It's required for correct work
Sorry for the delay.. no it was a new game.. I will probably try again at some point.. too busy in real life lately to try it again.
Take it light.....

Malakie

----------------------------------------------------

Polofix
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Polofix » Mon, 5. Oct 20, 11:55

@Shuulo
Polofix wrote:
Wed, 30. Sep 20, 09:12
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 29. Sep 20, 17:50

weird, nothing conflicting id say.
any other ship has the same issue?

Edit: tested on my side, all is fine, did anyone else encounter this issue?
Hello,
maybe it is because of the long german description.
Too much text may cause problems.

I haven't tried the other ships yet, I'll do that tonight. It's a pity that you can't reproduce the error.
I will stay on it.
Problem solved !

It was really because of the too long german text in 0001-L49.xml
And that is also the reason why you could not reproduce the error. You tested it with another language file (probably 0001.xml), but in this one the text is much shorter.

Here is the German text for the Titan in 0001-49.xml:

<t id="1903">Bis zum Bau der Argon Eins war die Titan das größte Schiff in der Argon-Flotte. Sie ist ein Zerstörer der Schlachtschiffklasse, ausgerüstet mit 18 Lasern. Obwohl es sehr schwierig zu manövrieren ist, stellt das Schiff in der Hand eines fähigen Argonen-Kapitäns eine mächtige Waffe dar. Die Vorgängermodelle kämpften und siegten in vielen großen Kriegen, sowohl im Xenon-Konflikt als auch in der Boronschlacht. Seitdem wird dieses Raumschiff ständig nachgerüstet und neu entworfen. Aber im Wesentlichen handelt es sich nach wie vor um das gleiche Schiff.\n\nGeschichtliches: Die Titan der ersten Generation war der erste Zerstörer überhaupt. Das verhältnismäßig kleine Schiff wurde im Jazura 218 während des Xenon-Konflikts in Dienst gestellt und war mit 18 Lasern und den damals brandneuen 125 MW-Schilden ausgestattet, die ihm einen extrem guten Schutz verliehen. Das Schlachtschiff ersetzte die Argon Zenturio, ein wesentlich kleineres und schwächeres Schiff, vergleichbar mit der heutigen Korvetten-Klasse. Die Zenturio hatte weniger Feuerkraft, schwächere Schilde und war wesentlich anfälliger für die taktischen Finten der Xenon. Mit Hilfe der Titan I jedoch wurde der Konflikt gewonnen und sie wird seitdem weiter eingesetzt und ständig verbessert. So gab es schon in der zweiten Generation, der Titan II, eine entscheidende Designänderung: Das Schiff wurde länger, und manche Bewohner der Planeten nannten es erstaunt "fliegendes U-Boot". Sie war vollgestopft mit richtungsweisenden Innovationen und es gab lange Zeit kein vergleichbares Schiff unter den Völkern. Leider war sie durch ihre Länge und hohe Beschleunigung schwierig zu manövrieren, regelmäßig kam es zu Beinahe-Kollisionen. Nur eine Verstärkung der Steuerdüsen konnte helfen.\nDie heutige Version der Titan ist die Titan III. Wieder einmal wurden die neuesten technischen Entwicklungen der Schiffswerften von Argon Prime, Omicron Lyrae, diverser Forschungszentren und der TerraCorp verbaut. Geschwindigkeit, Schilde und auch die Manövrierbarkeit wurden verbessert. Das Schiff war nun auch für Erkundungsflüge im tiefen Raum konzipiert, wo sie auf verschiedenen Forschungsmissionen auf neue Sprungtore, fremde Sektoren und auch unbekannte Gefahren stieß. Das Schiff ist der Traum vieler junger Rekruten, die nur nach einer schier unendlich lang scheinenden Zeit und genügend Flugerfahrung für das Schiff zugelassen werden. Ältere Kapitäne jedoch sehnen sich die alten Tage zurück, als man noch am Steuer der Titan I oder der Zenturio direkt am Kampfgeschehen war, statt wie heute mit ferngelenkten oder weitreichenden Waffen aus mehreren Kilometern Entfernung den Gegner einfach zu vernichten.</t>

Here is the english text in 0001.xml:

<t id="1903">The Titan was the biggest ship in the Argon fleet before gate shutdown, at present days this model is outdated and maintained only as a symbol of Argons might. It is a battleship armed with numerous turrets and equipped with sufficient hangar for small fighter wing. Although heavy and difficult to manoeuvre, in the hands of a capable Argon Captain, this ship is a powerful weapon with a noble heritage. Its predecessors fought and won many major battles in both the Xenon Conflict and Boron Campaign. </t>

As you can see, the text is much more in German than in the English text file. And this is what causes the error in the info tab. X4 can't handle that much text and prevents the info tab from being displayed correctly.

I don't know who added the text, but it should definitely be shortened as it should cause this error for all German users. I cut the text from \n\nGeschichtliches: on (Historical). From there on I think it belongs into the Encyklopädie.

And voila, it works without problems.

aurumgallente
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by aurumgallente » Mon, 5. Oct 20, 11:58

It would be nice to have another version of corvette. Just replace Osprey landing zone with L turret, remove all drones. L turret fits almost perfectly on top of Osprey if top M turrets are removed, I checked in Blender.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 5. Oct 20, 20:22

Polofix wrote:
Mon, 5. Oct 20, 11:55

And voila, it works without problems.
thanks, will fix for next version.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Kuujis » Tue, 6. Oct 20, 07:38

Polofix wrote:
Fri, 2. Oct 20, 13:59
I wanted to build the Titan again. Unfortunately the Argon shipyard does not build XL ships anymore. It was quite damaged by the Xenon and then rebuilt. The XL Dock was destroyed and was rebuilt. And now I cannot build XL ships there anymore. All resources are 80-100% available. It is also no longer possible to equip XL ships at the shipyard.
There is no ship in the dock that is blocked the dock. The building order is at the top of the queue, but the building is not started. Ships to be upgraded are in the dock and then nothing happens. (Waited with Sinza one hour)
But this only concerns XL ships, not L ships. The shipyard is 100% repaired.
All other shipyards work. And again a new problem. But this is only a side issue. And not the topic here.
I'll sigle this out, as it does not seem to have been covered in replies - I have a very similar issue, but with PAR GOD Shipyard. It just does not produce XL ships anymore. I have taken care and provided ~26000 hull parts in one injection, in order to rule out shortages - it still did not work. Others are building their XL's with no problem, don't even have to worry about materials, as AI seems to have that in hand (except FRF in their end-of-the-world system :gruebel:, but even they manage when I manually supply them ).

Shipyard is at 100%, building L ships left and right, needed materials are hoovering at ~50-70% - no XL production.

Strangely - what differs in my case is that when I sent in my XL battleship for refit - it worked and it got refitted as per the order... It sometimes gets stuck, when I was installing mods during refit, but then just cancel the refit order and strangely - its instantly completed and ship is undocking...go figure :roll:

Anyway - can something be done about the shipyard? Or do I abandon all hope in that sector, let the shipyard die from a random I or U and then revisit the respawned version?

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 6. Oct 20, 16:51

i never encountered this issue, the only thing i can think of is that it was previously damaged e.g. by Xenons and not yet fully rebuilt.
But again, this has nothing to do with VRO, i dont change construction logic or stations in any way to have this kind of impact

Polofix
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Polofix » Tue, 6. Oct 20, 19:57

Kuujis wrote:
Tue, 6. Oct 20, 07:38
Polofix wrote:
Fri, 2. Oct 20, 13:59
I wanted to build the Titan again. Unfortunately the Argon shipyard does not build XL ships anymore. It was quite damaged by the Xenon and then rebuilt. The XL Dock was destroyed and was rebuilt. And now I cannot build XL ships there anymore. All resources are 80-100% available. It is also no longer possible to equip XL ships at the shipyard.
There is no ship in the dock that is blocked the dock. The building order is at the top of the queue, but the building is not started. Ships to be upgraded are in the dock and then nothing happens. (Waited with Sinza one hour)
But this only concerns XL ships, not L ships. The shipyard is 100% repaired.
All other shipyards work. And again a new problem. But this is only a side issue. And not the topic here.
I'll sigle this out, as it does not seem to have been covered in replies - I have a very similar issue, but with PAR GOD Shipyard. It just does not produce XL ships anymore. I have taken care and provided ~26000 hull parts in one injection, in order to rule out shortages - it still did not work. Others are building their XL's with no problem, don't even have to worry about materials, as AI seems to have that in hand (except FRF in their end-of-the-world system :gruebel:, but even they manage when I manually supply them ).

Shipyard is at 100%, building L ships left and right, needed materials are hoovering at ~50-70% - no XL production.

Strangely - what differs in my case is that when I sent in my XL battleship for refit - it worked and it got refitted as per the order... It sometimes gets stuck, when I was installing mods during refit, but then just cancel the refit order and strangely - its instantly completed and ship is undocking...go figure :roll:

Anyway - can something be done about the shipyard? Or do I abandon all hope in that sector, let the shipyard die from a random I or U and then revisit the respawned version?
Hello,
i found a solution for me.
maybe it works for you too.
look here:

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=430487

Polofix
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Polofix » Tue, 6. Oct 20, 20:02

Hello,

where i can find the disruptor rockets ?
I have searched all factions.
Maybe with the pirates? And if so, how can I buy them there or equip my ship?

Edit: I found the rocket .
In the equipment dock by the paranids (s-ship).

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 16. Oct 20, 00:48

Patch 2.3.4
After some feedback Xenon u was slightly changed:
- Tiny decrease in weapon damage
- increased construction time and resources cost, U should be more rare sight now.
- U now has unique icon
Bugs fixed:
- few missing sounds
- missing icons for split missile turrets, powered beam turrets and plasma bomb
- German Titan description shortened

SunofVich
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by SunofVich » Fri, 23. Oct 20, 08:17

So I see that the faction enhancer mods is highly recommended with VRO. Just out of curiosity how is VRO without these mods? The Xenon are a bit insane and no faction is able to handle them.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Rastuasi » Tue, 27. Oct 20, 12:53

SunofVich wrote:
Fri, 23. Oct 20, 08:17
So I see that the faction enhancer mods is highly recommended with VRO. Just out of curiosity how is VRO without these mods? The Xenon are a bit insane and no faction is able to handle them.
FE helps AI keep up, so you'll have more issues if you do not have them. FE gives a whole additional logic that helps them make decisions.

hqz
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by hqz » Sun, 1. Nov 20, 10:52

What does "at launch range" means in the missile description?

Context: I have a lot of trouble getting my fighters to use their torpedoes and missiles from afar so I'm wondering if this could be related.

Note: I don't know vanilla X4 enough to determine whether this is truly a VRO-specific property but I haven't found much information on this topic for vanilla at least.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Starman01 » Sun, 1. Nov 20, 17:00

I really like your mod, you did a great job making large ship battles finally realistic and simply awesome :) However, you might want to take a look at the xenon capital ship balance, they are too strong in my opinion. My current game with your newest VRO version is around 30 hours in now, and the xenon have obliterated half the universe and the economy starts to break down. The split are nearly wiped out, and the teladi are half way there.

I only hold Hatikvah's choice 1 through excessive cheating. I placed two really heavy armed defense stations at the gate, but the annihilators seem to be weaker again and don't do that much anymore against Xenons. I switched to wraith cruise missiles which do a better job, but they are heavily bound to economy and you risk your defense station being toothless.... If I wouldn't have the stations made invulnerable, they wouldn't have survived the second wave :) Without cheating, argon sectors would also be long obliberated by now. The last 10 hours I think I removed around 50 xenon capitals with my defense bases, without my intervention they would have killed argon / teladi by now for sure.

If I had to guess, I would say that reducing hull and shields of xenon capitals by 25 % at least could give the universe a bigger fighting chance. But it's just a guess, because I also use a steam mods that adds about +10 new sectors, and since a lot are on the left side of the map and the xenon have taken over, that's certainly a factor that the xenon have become so strong (even though this mod doesn't add new shipyards, but the xenon economy became a bit stronger with +15 new solar plants they built so far).

Nevertheless, keep it up, you improved this great game a lot by now !!

(edit) a little nitpick I have , is that fighter weapons feel quite more weak now. I haven't tried all weapons yet, but a 6-Gun Pulsar with EBC shouldn't take that long to take down a xenon P or miner (or other M-Class Ships), against fighters it's ok, but still feels weak compared to my potential firepower).

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 3. Nov 20, 12:05

hqz wrote:
Sun, 1. Nov 20, 10:52
What does "at launch range" means in the missile description?

Context: I have a lot of trouble getting my fighters to use their torpedoes and missiles from afar so I'm wondering if this could be related.

Note: I don't know vanilla X4 enough to determine whether this is truly a VRO-specific property but I haven't found much information on this topic for vanilla at least.
Launch range this is when AI will launch missiles, its usually close to lock range. Missile behavior is quite bad in vanilla and I dont change AI scripts or anything, so we should wait for X4 next 4.0 patch, there should be an improvement to it.
As a tip - give AI at least one regular weapon, it seems to improve missile handling a lot.
Starman01 wrote:
Sun, 1. Nov 20, 17:00

Nevertheless, keep it up, you improved this great game a lot by now !!
thanks for the feedback! though 3rd party mods can heavily impact the game and faction balance, even if players think that's not the case, so using other such mods is totally on the shoulders of the player, making Xenons weaker can make game without the mods you have unbalanced in another way.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by hqz » Wed, 4. Nov 20, 20:00

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Nov 20, 12:05


Launch range this is when AI will launch missiles, its usually close to lock range. Missile behavior is quite bad in vanilla and I dont change AI scripts or anything, so we should wait for X4 next 4.0 patch, there should be an improvement to it.
As a tip - give AI at least one regular weapon, it seems to improve missile handling a lot.

Thanks for the info. This explains why bombers have been pretty much useless to me so far.

Do you know if this is moddable?

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Thu, 5. Nov 20, 01:29

hqz wrote:
Wed, 4. Nov 20, 20:00
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Nov 20, 12:05


Launch range this is when AI will launch missiles, its usually close to lock range. Missile behavior is quite bad in vanilla and I dont change AI scripts or anything, so we should wait for X4 next 4.0 patch, there should be an improvement to it.
As a tip - give AI at least one regular weapon, it seems to improve missile handling a lot.

Thanks for the info. This explains why bombers have been pretty much useless to me so far.

Do you know if this is moddable?
Its not, otherwise i would have focused to make it a reality, we can only wait for 4.0 and hope for the best

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