[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

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hqz
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by hqz » Sun, 1. Nov 20, 10:52

What does "at launch range" means in the missile description?

Context: I have a lot of trouble getting my fighters to use their torpedoes and missiles from afar so I'm wondering if this could be related.

Note: I don't know vanilla X4 enough to determine whether this is truly a VRO-specific property but I haven't found much information on this topic for vanilla at least.

Starman01
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Starman01 » Sun, 1. Nov 20, 17:00

I really like your mod, you did a great job making large ship battles finally realistic and simply awesome :) However, you might want to take a look at the xenon capital ship balance, they are too strong in my opinion. My current game with your newest VRO version is around 30 hours in now, and the xenon have obliterated half the universe and the economy starts to break down. The split are nearly wiped out, and the teladi are half way there.

I only hold Hatikvah's choice 1 through excessive cheating. I placed two really heavy armed defense stations at the gate, but the annihilators seem to be weaker again and don't do that much anymore against Xenons. I switched to wraith cruise missiles which do a better job, but they are heavily bound to economy and you risk your defense station being toothless.... If I wouldn't have the stations made invulnerable, they wouldn't have survived the second wave :) Without cheating, argon sectors would also be long obliberated by now. The last 10 hours I think I removed around 50 xenon capitals with my defense bases, without my intervention they would have killed argon / teladi by now for sure.

If I had to guess, I would say that reducing hull and shields of xenon capitals by 25 % at least could give the universe a bigger fighting chance. But it's just a guess, because I also use a steam mods that adds about +10 new sectors, and since a lot are on the left side of the map and the xenon have taken over, that's certainly a factor that the xenon have become so strong (even though this mod doesn't add new shipyards, but the xenon economy became a bit stronger with +15 new solar plants they built so far).

Nevertheless, keep it up, you improved this great game a lot by now !!

(edit) a little nitpick I have , is that fighter weapons feel quite more weak now. I haven't tried all weapons yet, but a 6-Gun Pulsar with EBC shouldn't take that long to take down a xenon P or miner (or other M-Class Ships), against fighters it's ok, but still feels weak compared to my potential firepower).

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 3. Nov 20, 12:05

hqz wrote:
Sun, 1. Nov 20, 10:52
What does "at launch range" means in the missile description?

Context: I have a lot of trouble getting my fighters to use their torpedoes and missiles from afar so I'm wondering if this could be related.

Note: I don't know vanilla X4 enough to determine whether this is truly a VRO-specific property but I haven't found much information on this topic for vanilla at least.
Launch range this is when AI will launch missiles, its usually close to lock range. Missile behavior is quite bad in vanilla and I dont change AI scripts or anything, so we should wait for X4 next 4.0 patch, there should be an improvement to it.
As a tip - give AI at least one regular weapon, it seems to improve missile handling a lot.
Starman01 wrote:
Sun, 1. Nov 20, 17:00

Nevertheless, keep it up, you improved this great game a lot by now !!
thanks for the feedback! though 3rd party mods can heavily impact the game and faction balance, even if players think that's not the case, so using other such mods is totally on the shoulders of the player, making Xenons weaker can make game without the mods you have unbalanced in another way.

hqz
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by hqz » Wed, 4. Nov 20, 20:00

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Nov 20, 12:05


Launch range this is when AI will launch missiles, its usually close to lock range. Missile behavior is quite bad in vanilla and I dont change AI scripts or anything, so we should wait for X4 next 4.0 patch, there should be an improvement to it.
As a tip - give AI at least one regular weapon, it seems to improve missile handling a lot.

Thanks for the info. This explains why bombers have been pretty much useless to me so far.

Do you know if this is moddable?

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Thu, 5. Nov 20, 01:29

hqz wrote:
Wed, 4. Nov 20, 20:00
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 3. Nov 20, 12:05


Launch range this is when AI will launch missiles, its usually close to lock range. Missile behavior is quite bad in vanilla and I dont change AI scripts or anything, so we should wait for X4 next 4.0 patch, there should be an improvement to it.
As a tip - give AI at least one regular weapon, it seems to improve missile handling a lot.

Thanks for the info. This explains why bombers have been pretty much useless to me so far.

Do you know if this is moddable?
Its not, otherwise i would have focused to make it a reality, we can only wait for 4.0 and hope for the best

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Sat, 7. Nov 20, 15:54

Hey Shuulo,

Have you ever considered making any modifications to the Builder ships? I envision a heavier "Military" version that can actually provide a degree of defence for a build site. I.e. additional turrets - maybe a couple of large ones - and additional S-Class Pads to aid launching of fighters. If quick-launch tubes were possible, that'd be perfect. Not wanting to encroach too much on the Destroyer and Carrier classes of course, but enough for these ships to defend themselves.

In the vanilla game, this class of ship NEVER seems to have any support ships to defend it, so they fall quickly. Nor can they really defend a build site against anything other than a couple of Scouts. Do you think VRO is the place to perhaps enhance the Builder class of ships? So, modifications to the ship to be a bit better armed and have additional landing pads, plus changes to the Jobs to ensure these key vessels have support in the form of defensive ships. If there was a way so the Large Turrets only functions when the ship was deployed at a build site, then it'd help with the balance perhaps.

From a Player perspective this would be cool as an early-game base-ship type thing, and to the AI it'd really help secure build sites.

Scoob.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 12:39

Good idea, i will keep it in mind for next version post DLC

unit757
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by unit757 » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 16:58

I'm not entirely sure which mod is causing it, but since this one is the one that adds in the V, I'm starting here.

Something is making Xenon V's spawn in. Either they are being built and then being teleported, or just outright spawning. This is 100% not a case of them just flying to where I am finding them. I wiped out the Xenon in the Tharka/79B pocket and have my own fleet and stations there. Both gates are locked down and I was recently in an area the V would have had to pass to get to where it showed up, but while I was sat in space in the area between the two tharkas gates all of a sudden there is a V and 2 P's attacking me and the destroyer near me. It was impossible for it to get there by normal means without either dying, or me getting alerted my gate guards were under attack. This isn't the first time I've had a V suddenly appear either. Im running FOCW along side this mod and a few other cosmetic ones.

At this point taking down a lone V isn't to difficult, just kind of annoying since that isn't supposed to be a thing in this game. No criticism though, absolutely love the mod, just trying to figure out where these things are coming from.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 21:44

unit757 wrote:
Sun, 8. Nov 20, 16:58
I'm not entirely sure which mod is causing it, but since this one is the one that adds in the V, I'm starting here.
VRO doesnt meddle with spawning etc, V is used in the same "job" as K, so there is just 50-50 if it will be K or V built on Xenon shipyard, there is no special spawning mechanic for it.

SO i can tell that its not VRO that causing this, but there can be few reasons:
1. You are not using disable encounters recommended mod (though im not 100% sure if it influences this to be honest)
2. Xenons can have deep-space patrols that may come to you fighting when their patrol duty is finished or timedout.
3. Not sure if its still in game, but IIRC Xenons can make out of space invasions going with kind of jumpdrive.
4. or some other mods does it, you sure FOCW doesn't have this type of invasion enabled.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by unit757 » Mon, 9. Nov 20, 08:14

Shuulo wrote:
Sun, 8. Nov 20, 21:44
unit757 wrote:
Sun, 8. Nov 20, 16:58
I'm not entirely sure which mod is causing it, but since this one is the one that adds in the V, I'm starting here.
VRO doesnt meddle with spawning etc, V is used in the same "job" as K, so there is just 50-50 if it will be K or V built on Xenon shipyard, there is no special spawning mechanic for it.

SO i can tell that its not VRO that causing this, but there can be few reasons:
1. You are not using disable encounters recommended mod (though im not 100% sure if it influences this to be honest)
2. Xenons can have deep-space patrols that may come to you fighting when their patrol duty is finished or timedout.
3. Not sure if its still in game, but IIRC Xenons can make out of space invasions going with kind of jumpdrive.
4. or some other mods does it, you sure FOCW doesn't have this type of invasion enabled.

Good to know, thanks!

I'm going to guess the most likely scenario is either 2 or 3. FOCW could be causing it to, but with that I would have imagined it would be a full invasion force instead of 1 capital and a pair of corvettes. Guess I'll just have to imagine they still have cheeky jump drive tech, and make sure I beef up sector patrols lol. Think I'd almost rather it throw K's at me. Those heavy missiles on the V are nasty since missile defense mode is still crap

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Mon, 9. Nov 20, 23:42

Hi Shuulo,

There's a slight problem with the Xenon U when it's fighting In Sector. Ships and Stations appear to try to target its Turrets, which is fine in theory. However, on this ship the Turrets appear to be invisible and the target point ships and station aim for seems to be a short distance from the Hull. So, in essence, if the Xenon U is facing a station, the station tries to shoot the Turrets that are "floating" above the Hull and not actually substantial obects. This leads to shots just missing the ship entirely.

Basically, Stations aim at non-modelled turrets that are floating a short distance from the Hull, judging by where the U's Lasers emit from. This leads to most bullets missing when at this angle to the firing Station. You wouldn't think it'd make much difference for the most part, unless the U was at the perfectly wrong angle to its attacker. However, I'm seeing an awful lot of misses from ships trying to attak the U.

Note: this isn't linked to the vanilla aiming bug, where turrets go totally screwy for some reason. No, the projectiles seem to be heading for the exact loction be U's beams emit from, but there's no model there for them to hit. Should the U gain proper modeled turrets that can actually be hit and destroyed do you think? I'm assuming you have a reason for them being invisible / unable to be destroyed directly?

Xenon U's when the player is In Sector are particularly deadly due to how they screw with any turret that aims at the U's Turrets.

Scoob.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Mr.Freud » Tue, 17. Nov 20, 20:08

Can VRO be used with 4.0 beta?

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 17. Nov 20, 21:34

Have no idea yet :) it came out like few hours ago, need to test many things

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Hornet108 » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 13:30

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 17. Nov 20, 21:34
Have no idea yet :) it came out like few hours ago, need to test many things
For what its worth im noticing behaviour with the weapons where the range seems to have a relationship with the camera distance? It seems odd, but I haven't reported it in the beta forums because im running such heavy modification

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Rastuasi » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 17:09

Hornet108 wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 13:30
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 17. Nov 20, 21:34
Have no idea yet :) it came out like few hours ago, need to test many things
For what its worth im noticing behaviour with the weapons where the range seems to have a relationship with the camera distance? It seems odd, but I haven't reported it in the beta forums because im running such heavy modification
Perhaps it has to do with this? viewtopic.php?f=192&t=431204

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Coruskane » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 17:44

I'm having some issues where fighters won't dock properly when in-sector on a number of ships, particularly Corona battleship, and also sometimes my player ship clips inside it when i command my pilot to land me. Is this a known VRO issue? (e.g. not sure if you changed the models at all?)

The fighters fly down then just hover over the docking bay, not proceeding with the last 10 metres.

My NPC fighters do not having docking computers - I wonder whether that actually would help them as NPC's or not

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 18:32

Coruskane wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 17:44
I'm having some issues where fighters won't dock properly when in-sector on a number of ships, particularly Corona battleship, and also sometimes my player ship clips inside it when i command my pilot to land me. Is this a known VRO issue? (e.g. not sure if you changed the models at all?)

The fighters fly down then just hover over the docking bay, not proceeding with the last 10 metres.

My NPC fighters do not having docking computers - I wonder whether that actually would help them as NPC's or not
The hovering over the docking bay thing is a vanilla bug. Can often be triggered when more than one ship comes in to dock at the same time. It happens less often than it did, but still occurs in v3.3 - I've not seen it happen in the 4.0 Beta though.

Scoob.

Rastuasi
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Rastuasi » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 20:18

Scoob wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 18:32
I've not seen it happen in the 4.0 Beta though.

Scoob.
I believe they have a line item in the patchnotes for the beta that they attempted to fix this.

Coruskane
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Coruskane » Sat, 21. Nov 20, 20:30

Rastuasi wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 20:18
Scoob wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 18:32
I've not seen it happen in the 4.0 Beta though.

Scoob.
I believe they have a line item in the patchnotes for the beta that they attempted to fix this.
ah ok cool. I figured they would've fixed that in the 2yrs since release in vanilla. But i suppose not :oops:

Here's to 4.0 being the panacea then...

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 22. Nov 20, 17:18

Rastuasi wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 17:09
Hornet108 wrote:
Sat, 21. Nov 20, 13:30
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 17. Nov 20, 21:34
Have no idea yet :) it came out like few hours ago, need to test many things
For what its worth im noticing behaviour with the weapons where the range seems to have a relationship with the camera distance? It seems odd, but I haven't reported it in the beta forums because im running such heavy modification
Perhaps it has to do with this? viewtopic.php?f=192&t=431204
it really is 4.0 issue

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