Part of the changes I made to gain performance with my jobs mod was to de-nest subordinates and reduce wing quotas to 1 because it led to performance gains. The most hit script from sirnukes testing was the rubber band effect of escorts moving to their formation leader.Max Bain wrote: ↑Sun, 31. May 20, 12:03All I want is that its very compatible to other mods and that its balanced if people use it by default (also with other mods) so that I dont have to give support and it plays well.DeadAirRT wrote: ↑Sun, 31. May 20, 03:52How did you decide on those values? Do you realize, your mod potentially adds 5210 xenon fighters to my mods? And that is with one blind replace.Max Bain wrote: ↑Sun, 31. May 20, 03:04But isnt that the point? I mean I want to set the fighters for Xenons to these values so they are balanced to the other races which got plenty of new jobs and so on.
If they will only be altered from vanilla people might complain why Xenons are too strong or weak when they play with this mod and another one who alters these values so my values will be ignored.
This is a very basic mod. So if you have a specific mod where you want to increase/lower these values it might be better to just add this mod as optional dependency, so it will be loaded after this and overwrites my values? Or am I missing the point? Is there something you cant handly with the code as it is right now?
The added jobs aren't any issue at all. It's the blind replacement that is an issue. Right now, your mod increases fighters without knowing the scale of the effects is has. If you don't want the simplest solution to compatibility (the above mentioned code), you could also easily make your own escort jobs and balance them however you like without worrying about other mods. If you are worried about xenon being too weak, there is already a well built jobs mod that solves that issue (FOCW).
If you don't want to do either solution and just want people to make dependencies, that's your call in the end. If you want to make your mod play nicer with more mods (especially since it is popular), I'll be glad to help.
I havent said that I dont want your solution. I am just not blindly changing stuff, so I want to understand them before I put them inIf you don't want the simplest solution to compatibility (the above mentioned code), you could also easily make your own escort jobs and balance them however you like without worrying about other mods.. Now I understand that if you change the number of groups which will spawn the escorts as subordinates, the ship numbers will be enormous. I guess thats what you did, right?
So this indeed is a good arguement for your change.
Adding my own jobs wont work, because I want to make existing jobs stronger and here comes my last question:
In your mod, when I do the changes you suggest, wouldnt it mean that Xenon groups would still be very small? I mean that was the main purpose of the changes, so that Xenon can deal with new big NPC races ship groups which got bigger and more dangerous (with bigger ships now).
If you just increase the number of groups but dont increase the number of the ships they contain, I fear that they wont have a chance against the NPC races. Or how do you plan to balance this out?
A single battleship is 2-3 times as strong as a vanilla destroyer and a mothership 5-6 times. Comparable to an I. These are now standard ship groups of NPC races and Xenon should be able to deal with such big ship groups now. After 200 in game hours there can even be groups with 2 battleships or a mothership and battleship together.
With my mod, the number of jobs is much higher than vanilla so it's easier for them to respond with multiple fleets to counter a superior fleet. It's not uncommon for them to pull fleets from 2 surrounding sectors to counter enemies (my universe actually has standby defensive fleets). I don't mind making balance adjustments in a sub mod if they turn out to be too powerful but as you can probably imagine, I have to carefully control the amount of ships or else people without an equivalent processor to mine can run the game smoothly. Since my mod is a complete overhaul basically for the universe and jobs, it's basically on me to ensure compatibility with other mods and do the balancing.
Right now, the main mods that I know of that alter jobs are FE, VRO, and XR ship pack. FE actually doesn't change job's very much at all and VRO does the specific diff style like I recommended above. Since you already have a compat patch with VRO, it would be the perfect place to make any needed adjustments to escort counts using specific diffs to his values (although both increase the number of escorts iirc and are fairly similar).
