is it me or X4 modding community is dying?

[Malakie]

Modders should feel no guilt nor shame for failing to update their mods, and those trying to imply that should be the ones to hang their heads in shame.

Why? If you are going to make a mod that becomes popular, keeping it up to date in a reasonable manner seems prudent. When I do make mods, missions, etc for games, I always try to keep them up to date especially after major game updates are released for a game I made a mod for.

If a person does not have time to keep things up to date reasonably, then don't make the mod.

While real life happens, I am not talking about those situations.. I am talking about those that create a huge mod that thousands not only use but that actually become so ingrained into the game that removing it breaks your save games and campaigns utterly.

I have had many a game (not just the X series) where I have selected what appeared to be a great mod, installed it, got deep into a campaign for suddenly the author to stop supporting it or even delete it outright from being available.... breaking all that work players did. XCOM 2 mods are a big issue on this one for example..

The point is, if I were to have to stop supporting a mod, I would at least see if anyone else was interested in taking it over to support it for all those using it.

I disagree. Modders don't owe anyone anything. Your own philosophy about modding for your own creations is fine. If you feel that way, then by all means go ahead and carry out your principles. Modders make things for fun or as a hobby or for a variety of reasons and if they no longer wish to work on something, that is their choice. They have no obligation to finish anything, update anything, etc. Also, they do not need to give permission for someone else to use their work or continue it if they don't wish to. Saying they should feel guilty or some sort of obligation is absolute nonsense and saying that they shouldn't make something just because they eventually stop working on it is also ridiculous. When you decide to use a mod, you are choosing to take the risks that go with it and you have only yourself to blame if something gets messed up.

I never said they did.. I said it is irritating that so many modders start something they never finish and leave players hanging. But I guess that's the way life is now.

[Revolution Rising]

I had a much more finely tuned ability to deal with mining in X3.

For instance, I want to be able to dedicate a miner for a station just for ore. I want to do that MYSELF, usually I'd override the station manager with a script... I can find no such script. RandomMine won't do it...

X3 not only did I have a script to do it - I had several scripts by different authors that did this simple thing.

install this:

https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/289

this lets you choose the wares you want station traders to trade and station miners to mine without manager overwriting them

p.s. you need G workaround

Just on the topic of not updating mods, this wasn't actually updated and now just removes all the mineral designations you give it

[Buzz2005]

it works, just assign wares again, when you add wares first time it removes all but doing it again works, if you just remove stuff from the list that automatically gets added when you assign there is no problems

[BigGreenThugs]

TLDR: Love the game. I would create mods if I knew how. Ideas listed below.

I'm a huge fan of this game. I play with mods. It started with quality of life mods like MassMoveMarines (https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/170)
then moved into some others. I play with a lot of the mods by iforgotmysocks (https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations ... user+files)
My main issue is I can't mod. I have very little experience with scripting/coding and looking at the XML files are a bit daunting. I have successfully edited other mods but the mod authors did the heavy lifting. I have actually looked at the tutorials and started to some reading into but It just confused me more. I feel like I'm missing a key piece of information that may make all the rest of the info click.
I have Ideas that I would love to see implemented but lack the skill.
Here is an example. iforgotmysocks has a mod called Recycle Ships and Stations (https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/72). I love this mod. It allows play where you do not have to befriend any faction (to a point.) One of the main things it does is turning existing ships back into ship parts and includes a station module to do so. This gave me an idea: what if this recycle module could be used to process the "Junk fields" that exist in certain areas like the one in Silent Witness XII. I believe that to make this work that you would first have to create a new mineable resource. Then make the "junk fields" mineable. Probably via a new class of mining ship or "Salvager". Maybe with a new set of weapons and storage (including station modules) that are salvage specific. Can this be done? I believe so. Can I do it? No.

I think the Behemoth could work better as a fighter delivery platform than a "Destroyer". It has 4 Small docks and could unload 40 small ships rather quickly. Maybe it could repair the fighters it carries like a carrier does. Also more medium turrets. Also I'm sure this can be done just not by me.

I'd like a context menu option on the map screen to order one of my ships to claim an abandoned one.
I'd like a medium size mining ship with a small dock.
I'd like small size turrets (back of the Balaur on the top between the vertical fins seems made for this)
I'd like a ship that was made specifically for boarding. Maybe the Cobra was made for this
I'd like to have a trader assigned to a resupply ship that would trade for the resupply ship automatically.
I'd like a point defense system that can actually shoot down missiles. Or an ECM suite that can disrupt them. (not a missile/torpedo fan)
I think NPC ships should bail sometimes when they are fighting each other
I'd LOVE to able to rotate station modules on more than one axis.

I guess if I could mod, I have ideas that I'd like to see implemented.

[StopBanningMe7_III]

Modders should feel no guilt nor shame for failing to update their mods, and those trying to imply that should be the ones to hang their heads in shame.

Why? If you are going to make a mod that becomes popular, keeping it up to date in a reasonable manner seems prudent. When I do make mods, missions, etc for games, I always try to keep them up to date especially after major game updates are released for a game I made a mod for.

If a person does not have time to keep things up to date reasonably, then don't make the mod.

While real life happens, I am not talking about those situations.. I am talking about those that create a huge mod that thousands not only use but that actually become so ingrained into the game that removing it breaks your save games and campaigns utterly.

I have had many a game (not just the X series) where I have selected what appeared to be a great mod, installed it, got deep into a campaign for suddenly the author to stop supporting it or even delete it outright from being available.... breaking all that work players did. XCOM 2 mods are a big issue on this one for example..

The point is, if I were to have to stop supporting a mod, I would at least see if anyone else was interested in taking it over to support it for all those using it.

No offence, sir, but this post is so asinine that I interpreted it as a troll post at first. You've since implied otherwise. Astonishing.

I owe you nothing. If I make a mod in my spare time that turns out well, I might share it with the community. I might do my best to respond to criticism or bugs. I might even maintain it. Or I might not. If it breaks your game, I'm sorry, but tough. I have every right to say "stop crying and fix it yourself". I have every right to ignore you. Your sense of entitlement is mind boggling.

[Malakie]

Modders should feel no guilt nor shame for failing to update their mods, and those trying to imply that should be the ones to hang their heads in shame.

Why? If you are going to make a mod that becomes popular, keeping it up to date in a reasonable manner seems prudent. When I do make mods, missions, etc for games, I always try to keep them up to date especially after major game updates are released for a game I made a mod for.

If a person does not have time to keep things up to date reasonably, then don't make the mod.

While real life happens, I am not talking about those situations.. I am talking about those that create a huge mod that thousands not only use but that actually become so ingrained into the game that removing it breaks your save games and campaigns utterly.

I have had many a game (not just the X series) where I have selected what appeared to be a great mod, installed it, got deep into a campaign for suddenly the author to stop supporting it or even delete it outright from being available.... breaking all that work players did. XCOM 2 mods are a big issue on this one for example..

The point is, if I were to have to stop supporting a mod, I would at least see if anyone else was interested in taking it over to support it for all those using it.

No offence, sir, but this post is so asinine that I interpreted it as a troll post at first. You've since implied otherwise. Astonishing.

I owe you nothing. If I make a mod in my spare time that turns out well, I might share it with the community. I might do my best to respond to criticism or bugs. I might even maintain it. Or I might not. If it breaks your game, I'm sorry, but tough. I have every right to say "stop crying and fix it yourself". I have every right to ignore you. Your sense of entitlement is mind boggling.

The bigger issue for me is not that a bug shows up... rather those modders that suddenly remove or delete their mod outright.. For example, I have played games where I used mods, had month long campaigns going using that mod, when suddenly the modder decides they don't want to support it anymore and they actually delete it entirely from workshop or nexus... which literally in some cases, breaks the game because it ALSO deletes the mod on your system without permission.. That's more the issue I hate... I have also bitched at steam about it because workshop is notorious for that.. Steam should not be altering files and deleting files without my permission. But conversely, modders should not just arbitrarily delete a mod without letting us know so we can alter or change things up to make sure it does not destroy months of game play and work.

[Privata]

I dont think its dying
I think its a mix of two things

One is that X4 has by default a lot of features that traditionally got modded into older games. (Such as the true economy, dynamic sector ownership and wars)

While also having a different structure regarding modding leading to a new learning curve that might put some off if the mod is not deemed essential to make

Important to remember that X2 all the way to the final X3 title all used iterative code and tools, so skills were very transferable

I have a mod or two ready to upload, maybe I should hurry up on that

[Infector]

The big difference is that you don't have a ingame ui that allows you to write and debug scripts on-the-fly and no testing environment to instantly test smaller changes on scripts. The script editor also checked scripts for logic errors when you saved them.

It's the comfort options that allowed people that can't code properly to write simpler stuff themselves and get the confidence to start larger projects.

E.g. you start an editor mode where the faction logic and all ai scripts are stopped, but it spawned everything that is going to get spawned on gamestart. That existed in x2 and x3 and allowed to check if gate connections are working and your factories were placed correctly. Something similar to Minecraft's creative mode would def. allow people without any knowledge about programming to do their first steps in modding their universe and creating their own mods. Let them hit numpad enter and create a new sector in an empty hexagon.

[Accuracy]

XML might be easier to implement and generally more expressive, but I just can't get past the disgusting verbosity of it all. It looks awful and writing it is the worst kind of chore. The model that's used doesn't allow basic concepts like subroutines so code duplication is rampant. I just hate, hate, hate it all.

I might be the only one though. I wrote a translator a while back to convert the XML code to something I find more readable and exactly nobody cared.

I have been writing mods in various games and seeing the XML and how the logic syntax is defined in this game - It almost made me cry.
Who in his right mind would use XML for scripting in the first place? Hasn't egosot heard of LUA or any other embedded scripting language?

[Infector]

I think that many people that just want to create beautiful systems with custom backgrounds, need a WYSIWYG way to quickly check on their work that doesn't involve relaunching the game a couple of times.

[MHDriver]

Hm,, I think dying is a bit of a stretch. With nearly 4500 hours in the game I have come to rely on the modding community to keep me interested in playing X4. The fact is I have taught myself some basic XML skills so that I can "mod the mods" so that they are more to my liking and I spend a lot of time doing just that as well as testing my modifications with old saves and new games. I agree that the best known modders have slowed a bit from the waterfall of mods right after the CV lock down but I am cool with it. I know modding is a hobby and many folks are busy adjusting to the new normal in RL. ES continues to update and roll out new content so between them and our modding community I am confident that there will enough variation in future content to keep me for one going for a few hundred more hours.

[Takiro Ryo]

XML might be easier to implement and generally more expressive, but I just can't get past the disgusting verbosity of it all. It looks awful and writing it is the worst kind of chore. The model that's used doesn't allow basic concepts like subroutines so code duplication is rampant. I just hate, hate, hate it all.

I might be the only one though. I wrote a translator a while back to convert the XML code to something I find more readable and exactly nobody cared.

I have been writing mods in various games and seeing the XML and how the logic syntax is defined in this game - It almost made me cry.
Who in his right mind would use XML for scripting in the first place? Hasn't egosot heard of LUA or any other embedded scripting language?

I'm an X veteran but new to modding the game. Modded other games before for my personal enjoyment and work as a professional developer. It took me two days to understand the basics of X's structure and "design philosophy". XML was also kind of a turn off, it's just so hard to read. It doesn't even bother me so much when just editing/adding wares but when you want to create MD scripts you just want to cry (honestly I was almost thinking if it wouldn't be more fun to write a modding tool instead of actually modding the game ). I'm sure Egosoft has some inhouse tool to create and edit these files and only uses XML as kind of an exchange format. Otherwise this would be impossible to maintain without losing their mind.

Another thing is the lack of documentation. The community did a decent job providing some examples and tutorials that help with the most basic things but while I was reading through the guides I found a lot of things that where outdated or lack important details. Some things work like modding Xr some things are specific to X4 it seems. However I understand that Egosoft doesn't and can't make it their priority to provide us with a complete and detailed documentation.

I don't think the modding community is dying, I used mods since v1.0 but a lot of things I used mods for before are now in vanilla game, like the crew transfers or other quality of life features. I see mods like this being replaced by mods that bring new original content, like ships, sectors, stories and the like but these take a lot of time to make, I guess.

[Accuracy]

XML might be easier to implement and generally more expressive, but I just can't get past the disgusting verbosity of it all. It looks awful and writing it is the worst kind of chore. The model that's used doesn't allow basic concepts like subroutines so code duplication is rampant. I just hate, hate, hate it all.

I might be the only one though. I wrote a translator a while back to convert the XML code to something I find more readable and exactly nobody cared.

I have been writing mods in various games and seeing the XML and how the logic syntax is defined in this game - It almost made me cry.
Who in his right mind would use XML for scripting in the first place? Hasn't egosot heard of LUA or any other embedded scripting language?

I'm an X veteran but new to modding the game. Modded other games before for my personal enjoyment and work as a professional developer. It took me two days to understand the basics of X's structure and "design philosophy". XML was also kind of a turn off, it's just so hard to read. It doesn't even bother me so much when just editing/adding wares but when you want to create MD scripts you just want to cry (honestly I was almost thinking if it wouldn't be more fun to write a modding tool instead of actually modding the game ). I'm sure Egosoft has some inhouse tool to create and edit these files and only uses XML as kind of an exchange format. Otherwise this would be impossible to maintain without losing their mind.

Another thing is the lack of documentation. The community did a decent job providing some examples and tutorials that help with the most basic things but while I was reading through the guides I found a lot of things that where outdated or lack important details. Some things work like modding Xr some things are specific to X4 it seems. However I understand that Egosoft doesn't and can't make it their priority to provide us with a complete and detailed documentation.

I don't think the modding community is dying, I used mods since v1.0 but a lot of things I used mods for before are now in vanilla game, like the crew transfers or other quality of life features. I see mods like this being replaced by mods that bring new original content, like ships, sectors, stories and the like but these take a lot of time to make, I guess.

I wish there was a proper modding API.
For instance, I would LOVE to rewrite the AI from scratch. But unfortunately such a modification is currently not possible as there is no exposure to any of the back-end AI functions.

[magitsu]

I dont think its dying
I think its a mix of two things

One is that X4 has by default a lot of features that traditionally got modded into older games. (Such as the true economy, dynamic sector ownership and wars)

Here's a good comparison. Mod functions that were integrated to Rebirth after its release.

v4.10 RC1: Counter of available ammunition display added to detail menus of ships and stations after work by forgotmysocks.

v4.10 b5: Capital ships fighting each other now prioritise each other's surface elements. Behaviour introduced by clj, cicero111 and w.evans.

v4.10 b1: Dedicated behaviour added for the Balor and Scuellus supporting their unique weapons after work by clj, cicero111, and w.evans.

v4.00 RC2: The option for Architect subordinates to trade system-wide was previously only available as part of YorrickVander's GSR mod.

v4.00 b6: MICT by w.evans: Station's launching defensive drones.

v4.00 b6: Automated Emergency Jump by bm01: Depending on skills, ships may attempt to jump or boost to safety after damage exceeds a threshold.

v4.00 b5: MultiAssignment by Phipsz: Added multi-select to Property Owned menu to support multiple orders, assignments and sales.

v4.00 b5: Trade Menu Cargo Hold Filter by blackmilan: Feature incorporated into the Trade Deals menu (not Trade Offers menu though).

v4.00 b4: Mission Computer by cyberfuzzie: A Bulletin Board was added for collating most missions.

v4.00 b3: Player Jump by euclid: JD for the Skunk.

v4.00 b2: Format Thousands by Jth: Event Monitor and Logbook notations no separate out 000's within long numbers.

v3.61: "Improved DPS calculations for launchers including one very wrong case of overpowered missile turrets": Based on player detective work.

v3.60: Clean Sidebar and Main Menu by Olympian: Removed striped backgrounds ("scan line effect") to aid readability.

v3.60: Realistic physics and full/assisted inertia by Realspace: Added ability to rotate 180o to fly backwards (amongst other things).

v3.60: OOZ ship building by ubuntufreakdragon: Did what it says on the tin - OOZ Ship Dealers became accessible via the map.

v3.60: Engineer Fix by bm01: Fixed engineer repairing hull too slowly if there are no other damaged elements. The "long wait" (up to 10 minutes) was triggered after each repair tick.

v3.50: Engineer Drone Fix by w.evans: Fixed an issue whereby docked Construction URVs were not being marked as available.

v3.50: Manager Fix by ubuntufreakdragon: Improved the way a Manager determined what a station needs, helping it to produce.

v3.50: SMUPS by w.evans: Added mining, construction & cargo drones to plot URV Forge (as of 3.60, still makes additional changes).

v3.50: AutoLooter by euclid: Beamed nearby inventory loot into the Skunk before the Container Magnet was added to the game.

v3.20: Marine Rebalance (by w.evans) and Boarding Options (by camus/Clownmug): Added info on boarding attack strength (as of 3.60, still makes additional changes).

v3.00: Recall Player Drones by YorrickVander: This mod allowed us to order the Skunk's drones to dock back up.

v3.00: Remove spawned trade ship wares by SilverXarrow: Prevented trader spawning full of wares to improve the game economy. In v3.00, 100% full cargo was changed to a lower, random % of cargo).

v2.50: Albion Civil (by Reaperxvii) and Real War (by IRaven): Added "civil war" behaviour between Plutarch and Heart of Albion+Canterans.

v2.50: Build Small Ships by Berserk Knight: Added the ability for medium shipyards to build small and medium ships.

v2.50: Core_shields by bobucles: Added shields to the hulls of capital ships.

v2.50: Targeting UI Extension by Observe: Added an external camera.

v2.50: Universal Menu System by Berserk Knight: Added additional slots to the radial menu in the era before we gained the sidebar.

v2.00: Never Enter Stations Again by Mad_Joker: "a major source of inspiration for our version of the functionality to allow most tasks to be performed without landing on stations" (CBJ, 20.05.2014).

v2.00: Manual Command Extension by Jack08: The mod added a series of commands for our ships that a form of which were part of v2.0.

v1.24: Targeting UI Extension by Observe: Added targetting functions such as for nearest enemy.

08.12.2013: Build in Maelstrom by csfelfoldi: Added station build locations to Sigma Sector when none were none were thought to exist.

https://www.egosoft.com:8444/confluence ... +X+Rebirth

Modding API or mod tools would be a great investment into the long tail of the game. I wager Litcube/Mayhem has been significantly responsible for X3 selling to this day. XR wasn't exactly saved by CWIR/NF, but they sure as heck look like proto X4. The mods are meaningful in keeping Egosoft afloat between games.

[Takiro Ryo]

Modding API or mod tools would be a great investment into the long tail of the game. I wager Litcube/Mayhem has been significantly responsible for X3 selling to this day. XR wasn't exactly saved by CWIR/NF, but they sure as heck look like proto X4. The mods are meaningful in keeping Egosoft afloat between games.

Would be cool to have but I doubt we get something like this before the last DLC is out since developing this would take resources away from the main project. I'd expect this to only happen (if at all) after no new content is in development for x4. And if game development is anything like usual software development, development of an X5 will probably start just after x4 is "done". So we probably never get dedicated modding tools by Egosoft especially since this would be another software that would need maintainance, support etc..

[magitsu]

Would be cool to have but I doubt we get something like this before the last DLC is out since developing this would take resources away from the main project. I'd expect this to only happen (if at all) after no new content is in development for x4. And if game development is anything like usual software development, development of an X5 will probably start just after x4 is "done". So we probably never get dedicated modding tools by Egosoft especially since this would be another software that would need maintainance, support etc..

True. Almost guaranteed there won't be any unless they'd make a plan to build one for themselves with the intention to release it later. Something just for the modders won't happen.

[user1679]

Personally I think the problem is the lack of documentation. I know several languages, including XML, lua and C++ but I feel like a total novice when it cmes to X4 modding.

I've extracted all the main game files and looked through them but it isn't very helpful. For example, a CUE can provide PARAMETERS when it is triggered. You can see in some of the XML files a reference to param or param2.indexOf{} but there's no documentation to explain what the params are (ships, players, npcs, etc) or what parameters are provided by what cue types.

People will say "just read the XSD or existing mods" but the problem is if your particular issue isn't covered by someone figuring it out can be so time consuming that giving up is almost inevitable. For example, I've been working on spawning an NPC based on certain criteria. So far I've not been able to find any way to determine what station the player is on when the game is loaded. There are several examples of how to do it on docking and other events but not game start / load.

If there was a more comprehensive documentation besides the X4 Rebirth wiki, modding would probably be very robust.

[aka1nas]

My main issue is that the base game still hasn't hooked me enough to want to spend the time modding it. I only did a few light scripts/mods for x3, but that was because the game drew me in enough that I wanted to tweak the few things that weren't working just right.

[Angsaar]

I'm always amused when this thread comes up considering the X4 Modding channel on Discord is pretty active...

Perhaps the post title could be updated to:

Is the X4 modding community dying? Join our Discord and find out!

[Baconnaise]

I'm always amused when this thread comes up considering the X4 Modding channel on Discord is pretty active...

Perhaps the post title could be updated to:

Is the X4 modding community dying? Join our Discord and find out!

I would think a better wording of OP would've been why the game community seems slow at times or small. The X series hasn't really been mainstream or big compared to other genres. If we were to say X series people would likely think X-Com instead. I still play Vicky 2 or SoaSE. The games are very niche, especially beyond the official support. The games aren't really attractive to big swathes of the population. It's just how it is in reality. Egosoft hasn't AFAIK purged the community around the older games which is commendable. If they were like EA or some other corporations the forums would be gone along with all archived data. Anyone remember Earth and Beyond? Many such cases with companies and games people loved.