Split from Faction War/Economy Enhancer v5.0

[Buzz2005]

you really are impatient, they still are doing betas so uou don't know how it will be in the end

[easternsun]

It's hard to be patient when CBJ stated that they wanted the mod makers to fix their issue. I'm testing beta 7 now so lets hope this solves the issue.

When you get a reply form the devs like this basically telling you go have the Modder do their work why would I wait for them?
From CBJ:
Your game is modified. You keep claiming that it "only" gives the factions larger fleets and more wars, apparently ignoring the critical point that those things create massively more demand for resources, way beyond that of the vanilla game. So no, we will not be rebalancing the game for the needs of a mod that drastically affects resource demands. If the mod's author wants to do that, so that the game is balanced for their very different economy requirements, than that is up to them to solve. We may, however, adjust resource availability based on feedback from players of the vanilla game, provided we have sufficient data to see that there is genuinely an issue, and not just that they have exceeded the intended local resource limits.

[Rastuasi]

It's hard to be patient when CBJ stated that they wanted the mod makers to fix their issue. I'm testing beta 7 now so lets hope this solves the issue.

When you get a reply form the devs like this basically telling you go have the Modder do their work why would I wait for them?
From CBJ:
Your game is modified. You keep claiming that it "only" gives the factions larger fleets and more wars, apparently ignoring the critical point that those things create massively more demand for resources, way beyond that of the vanilla game. So no, we will not be rebalancing the game for the needs of a mod that drastically affects resource demands. If the mod's author wants to do that, so that the game is balanced for their very different economy requirements, than that is up to them to solve. We may, however, adjust resource availability based on feed back from players of the vanilla game, provided we have sufficient data to see that there is genuinely an issue, and not just that they have exceeded the intended local resource limits.

His statements are perfectly correct and this is a reason why they say to play vanilla in beta and not to play with mods. Mod devs generally do not do updates while beta is going on because things change too much too fast. If this mod is updated now, it'll need it again next week and that's a waste of time. You take the risk of a broken game wherever you use mods, just something you agreed to.

[easternsun]

Only on this forums do people accept that the retail releases never get bug fixes but beta's cannot be played with mods even though they are the only location to get the bug fixes. This is why people created the mods in the first place to do what Egosoft doesn't. This mod in particular fixes their weak economy and war mechanics. Why should I wait for Egosoft when the Modder is doing a better job than the official devs.

[Imperial Good]

Of course it all worked just fine prior to Beta 5 but since 15 L class miners now completely deplete a sector not sure if you can add more gas to your War/Economy mods to fix what they broken and are refusing to fix.

Please do not derail topics with unrelated discussion. This thread is meant to discuss the Faction War/Economy Enhancer mod, and not be used for general feedback relating to X4 and your opinions on its development. I will reply to your questions and advise this discussion ends here.

The issue with mining is that it used to work well because it was broken. Miners used to magic wares out of thin air rather than pulling them from resource volumes as the developers likely intended all along. They now fixed that and a major flaw in the availability of resources and mining behaviour were exposed which also needs fixing. These were not fixed before because these issues were masked by the first bug.

The developers also appear to be trying to make mining more challenging, requiring a lot more effort and involvement to setup with large numbers of resource probes. This is likely an attempt to rebalance early game and slow down progression such that the player is more encouraged to try and make their fortune with other activities such as trading, fighting, missions e.t.c. The reason this was not done before is likely due to the limited development resources they have available, people were too busy working on other features until now.

From what I can see mining related issues are still actively being worked on. It is quite likely there will be some improvements made before 4.00 releases.

Only on this forums do people accept that the retail releases never get bug fixes

Retail releases get patches at least every half a year. Longest delay between release patches is in the wind up for DLC, which is the case right at the moment. 4.00 is likely going to release simultaneously with Cradle of Humanity next month.

but beta's cannot be played with mods even though they are the only location to get the bug fixes

They can be played with mods, but any issues encountered need to be reproduceable in an unmodified save to rule out the cause being a bug, design flaw or incompatibility with the mod. Mod authors have to build and develop their mods around X4, and not really the other way round.

This is why people created the mods in the first place to do what Egosoft doesn't. This mod in particular fixes their weak economy and war mechanics.

Some mods drastically alter how X4 plays to be far outside the intention of the developers. Some players may prefer this new way to the intended way but in the end the developers build around their vision of the game. Mods give the player an opportunity to play the experience intended by the mod author.

Aspects such as economy are purposely kept slightly weak so that there are trading and supply opportunities for the player to fulfil. If the AI optimized their economies then everything will be in oversupply and both buying and selling at near minimum price. Like wise wars are kept relatively stable so as to avoid natural gravitation to a specific outcome and instead relying on the player to act as a force of change to upset this balance. For example having the Xenon take over the entire universe unless the player optimizes their every move to stop them is not an intention, but having Xenon destroy stations, or maybe push in or lose a sector over time is.

Currently a fix many mod authors can use is to raise resource field yields and replenishment significantly. If the resource volumes never empty then the behaviour will be practically the same to what it was before the mining bug was fixed.

[easternsun]

It seems I'm just getting followed to be attacked. I raise the issue on the beta forums. I get attacked that I'm a modded player and my complaints that the economy while broken was how it worked for 2 years is not unacceptable cause i'm unclean with a filthy mod that adds too many ships and wars.

In their words Mute point, I'm a filthy modder and not clean with vanilla saves. Of course the devs forget that most of us get a modded save just playing the game at some point as the old bugs had to be corrected by manually editing save games. Sure I'll recreate 2 years of gameplay to beta test the base game feature that this mod overtaxes. Not sure why they don't want to see the extreme end of the empire to test their simulation. Guess they just want us to just start over every time A mission gets stuck or a NPC dies randomly that's required for the plot, or we grow too big.

So I go to the mod makers thread who I'm using to have them fix the issue to work around the new changes to support the mining economy to work the way this mods demands generate. Again I get attacked for not waiting for the devs to fix the issue even thought they specifically told me to shut up and go away and have the mod maker fix it.

[shovelmonkey]

It seems I'm just getting followed to be attacked....

...i'm unclean with a filthy mod that adds too many ships and wars...

...I'm a filthy modder and not clean with vanilla saves....

Dude, your salt levels are quite high. Your original "request", such that it was, in this thread was was an overwrought and passive aggressive attack on the devs. It seems like you are purposefully missing the point. Devs balance the game for vanilla. Modders mod and balance the game to their desires. Seems fair to me.

Either way you are at the mercy of the timeline of either party. As has been mentioned before, modders are very unlikely to do anything with of import until COH releases which has been announced for March 16th. Maybe go play something else until then if you can't stand the way things are and allow your salt levels to reduce.

[easternsun]

I'm doing exactly what CBJ said to do. Ask the Modder to adjust the resources requirements to fit his mods demands. I tested in beta 7 and while better still doesn't provide enough to work as before. This means that when others who are reporting it's still not enough in Vanilla is going to mean anyone who uses this mod's games economy is going to crash on 4.0 release.
My salt is high because being told your opinion or feedback doesn't matter just because I use a mod to test their game is disrespectful. When I pointed out that others who had Vanilla saves had issues I was still attacked by being told I wasn't following the "Rules" of the forum.

I moved the discussion to the mod's thread as this needs to be discussed here according to the DEVS. I then get attacked and called impatient when I do this. Also a game in this state only having a bug release window for retail of 6 months is completely unacceptable. I want to play the game I purchased, keep my economy that I grew over 1500 hours going, and not have to start all over.

[shovelmonkey]

I'm doing exactly what CBJ said to do. Ask the Modder to adjust the resources requirements to fit his mods demands. I tested in beta 7 and while better still doesn't provide enough to work as before. This means that when others who are reporting it's still not enough in Vanilla is going to mean anyone who uses this mod's games economy is going to crash on 4.0 release.
My salt is high because being told your opinion or feedback doesn't matter just because I use a mod to test their game is disrespectful. When I pointed out that others who had Vanilla saves had issues I was still attacked by being told I wasn't following the "Rules" of the forum.

I moved the discussion to the mod's thread as this needs to be discussed here according to the DEVS. I then get attacked and called impatient when I do this. Also a game in this state only having a bug release window for retail of 6 months is completely unacceptable. I want to play the game I purchased, keep my economy that I grew over 1500 hours going, and not have to start all over.

Running around the forums with your hair on fire attacking devs and saying "poor me" isn't likely to accomplish your goals. And taking your 1500 hour save over to the beta branch is questionable decision at best.

Anyways best of luck with all that.

[Alan Phipps]

@ easternsun.

1. Complaining in the beta forum with a majorly modded game is not going to help you. You cannot properly help the devs with the beta issues as you cannot provide supporting evidence of exactly how the beta game fails in its intents.

2. Complaining here in a mod thread is not going to help you either because no serious modder is going to change their major mod until the beta process has ended and the next game version is released and stable.

My advice to you is to be patient and let the beta process take its course and then hopefully both the released game and popular major mods can get back into step correctly. In the meantime either wait, or go back and play the current release version from your backed up saves, or continue to play the beta realising that it may not be optimised or work correctly (especially) with your mods and that you may lose some or all progress made while still in beta.

[easternsun]

I don't care if the Modder fixes it after 4.0 is released. I'm upset that I'm getting attacked when I mentioned this on the Mod's thread so they can address it. I've said what is needed so the Modder should be aware to look out for this. I'm sure they will take care of it. His mod is the best out there and they fix what still not working in Vanilla.

[Alan Phipps]

I'll split the derailment from the mod thread but leave the original post in the mod thread about the potential for a resourcing issue in the public beta.