Any mods that make territory control meaningful?

[Midnitewolf]

Well I am busily trying to put together my prefect X4 experience though mods. I have found one that does dynamic wars, found another that is a work around that simulates declaring peace or close enough I think it will work so that I am not stuck in an endless war just because I wanted Grand Exchange for myself. The only big thing missing is a mod that makes conquering and controlling territory meaningful.

I found one mod called, "landlord" which makes it so any stations in a sector you control that aren't your stations, has to pay you taxes for being in your sector. I figure if I combine this with the mod I found that allows you to "bribe" and enemy faction to not hate you anymore, it would simulate attacking a very populated sector to take control of it so you can gain rent from all the stations your previous enemy had in that sector.

However, this is the only one I could find so far so I figured I would ask the community if there was anything else they had ran across like this.

[BlackRain]

Well I am busily trying to put together my prefect X4 experience though mods. I have found one that does dynamic wars, found another that is a work around that simulates declaring peace or close enough I think it will work so that I am not stuck in an endless war just because I wanted Grand Exchange for myself. The only big thing missing is a mod that makes conquering and controlling territory meaningful.

I found one mod called, "landlord" which makes it so any stations in a sector you control that aren't your stations, has to pay you taxes for being in your sector. I figure if I combine this with the mod I found that allows you to "bribe" and enemy faction to not hate you anymore, it would simulate attacking a very populated sector to take control of it so you can gain rent from all the stations your previous enemy had in that sector.

However, this is the only one I could find so far so I figured I would ask the community if there was anything else they had ran across like this.

Well what exactly are you looking for? I don't think there are any other mods than landlord that does something with conquered territory, but one cool feature of my FOCW corporations mod is that if you are friendly with the corporations (any of them or all of them) they may build stations in your controlled sectors. That adds a bit to immersion. What else are you looking for exactly?

[sanas]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... Starbright

[Falcrack]

I suggested a mod that would provide the sector owner an income based on the sector population, but nobody made it! I feel though that if there were such a mod, there would need to be more thought put into the sector population number in the game. It makes no sense, for example, for some unclaimed sectors to have tens of billions of population, while several core sectors have no population at all.

[vadiolive]

to be true i just want some sort PlayerFactionLogic is painfulll keep expand after some point......
Also when you conquer your fist sector you not longer anymore you are empire/republic(whatever) with dynamic relations as well depend/based whats you do.....or you influence

Also just Overall QOL to late game , its painfull to indetify whats station stop produce
and how many i need and x y z sector to keep goods flowings

Make fleets its other painfull process
All this kind micro make me give up to wipe universe again.... in 4.0 DLC

[Midnitewolf]

to be true i just want some sort PlayerFactionLogic is painfulll keep expand after some point......
Also when you conquer your fist sector you not longer anymore you are empire/republic(whatever) with dynamic relations as well depend/based whats you do.....or you influence

Also just Overall QOL to late game , its painfull to indetify whats station stop produce
and how many i need and x y z sector to keep goods flowings

Make fleets its other painfull process
All this kind micro make me give up to wipe universe again.... in 4.0 DLC

Yep. I was honestly completely dumbfounded when 200 hours into my game and finally with a powerful enough Navy and economy to be considered an actual Minor Faction at the very least, that there was no meaningful territory control and no diplomacy. I mean every description, review or youtube video makes this game out to be a Space Empire Building Sandbox game, but the vast majority of the late game features that would make this true at outright missing from the game. I mentioned it before, but once you reach the late game, X4 really feels like it is still deep in the "Early Access" cycle awaiting major feature additions to finalize the game. I literally had to shake myself to bring myself back to the reality that the game has been in a feature complete "Officially Released" state for over 3 years now.

[BlackRain]

I suggested a mod that would provide the sector owner an income based on the sector population, but nobody made it! I feel though that if there were such a mod, there would need to be more thought put into the sector population number in the game. It makes no sense, for example, for some unclaimed sectors to have tens of billions of population, while several core sectors have no population at all.

I don't really know how the population functions. It is probably a UI/LUA thing which I am not familiar with or else I would try it out. I may take a look in the future.

So what kinds of ideas do we have for territory control?

1) Income based on population

What else?

[daBeschi]

Hello,

Some random ideas:
- Probably a big one is keeping control maybe the faction you have taken it from wants it back.
- Possibility to allow/disallow station building for factions (I personally hat the pirate stations in my sectors)
- building accelerators/highways

... just some random ideas.

Greetings

[Cedric_FP]

I suggested a mod that would provide the sector owner an income based on the sector population, but nobody made it! I feel though that if there were such a mod, there would need to be more thought put into the sector population number in the game. It makes no sense, for example, for some unclaimed sectors to have tens of billions of population, while several core sectors have no population at all.

I don't really know how the population functions. It is probably a UI/LUA thing which I am not familiar with or else I would try it out. I may take a look in the future.

So what kinds of ideas do we have for territory control?

1) Income based on population

What else?

What about significant production bonuses to factories the way habitats provide them? Might give an incentive to cap a sector in order to put ship production there and "double up" with worker bonus. Maybe sector population can tie into the bonus (representing a robust economy that supplies all the minutiae of fleet production we as overlords don't deal with, similar to a happiness mechanic in a 4x game or what have you).

This might lead to a cascade though in terms of player power in end-game situations. Not sure how to balance it if you can just crap out fleets even moreso than you can already achieve.

Perhaps scripted invasions by the former owner, or Xenon attracted by the activity of your capping in the first place, for a set period of time, so that capping a sector is not just a one-off thing that you do, but rather something you have to invest a dozen game hours into or lose the sector and your fleets / new infrastructure.

[BlackRain]

So far these possible ideas

1) Tax on population
2) Small boost in production based on population (only in owned sector)

What else?

[chip56]

No Rep Malus if you destroy a ship that fired on you first. After all that means those ships are actually criminals in this case.
The option to enforce peace or at the very least attack those that broke the peace without suffering any REP penalties.

[MHDriver]

I would think control from a reasonable perspective would include:

1. Control over who can build in the sector and what fees are to be paid

2. Tax on revenues generated withing the sector by other factions to include resources harvested

3. Whether hostilities are permitted between factions in the sector

4. What goods are legal or illegal to be produced, sold or transported

5. Which factions may traverse the sector

Just a few ideas

[BlackRain]

No Rep Malus if you destroy a ship that fired on you first. After all that means those ships are actually criminals in this case.
The option to enforce peace or at the very least attack those that broke the peace without suffering any REP penalties.

We need to come up with things which are possible. It is not possible to get rid of rep loss from attacking ships as far as I know. Same for your second suggestion.

[Midnitewolf]

So far these possible ideas

1) Tax on population
2) Small boost in production based on population (only in owned sector)

What else?

1) Tariffs, basically every ship that uses your gates has to pay a small fee for using them.
2) Gate access control. Basically restrict or allow factions to use gates. If you restrict them from using it, they might attack you or if you get restricted, you might want to attack them
3) Station Tax or Rent paid to the owner of the sector (there is a mod that does thing but it also adds station upkeep which I don't want).
4) Ability to board and capture enemy stations so you can make their resources your own.

[Midnitewolf]

No Rep Malus if you destroy a ship that fired on you first. After all that means those ships are actually criminals in this case.
The option to enforce peace or at the very least attack those that broke the peace without suffering any REP penalties.

We need to come up with things which are possible. It is not possible to get rid of rep loss from attacking ships as far as I know. Same for your second suggestion.

Well that depends on your definition of possible. The Devs absolutely could do all these things, it is just a matter of adding in the necessary programing and if you really want to get down to it, actually being able to actually "Control" or "Enforce" what happens in your own sectors would go a long way to making territory control meaningful.

However, possible isn't always easy so some possible easy solution to what chip56 asks for would be things like a simple "neutral" tag that you can place on your sectors. Then any one attacking another ship in your territory get immediately tagged as hostile. Also to make things more dynamic just tie the frequency of other factions ships ignoring your "neutrality" be based on your reputation with that faction. Something like this.

Faction Level
25+ = 5% chance of faction ignoring your neutrality
20-24 = 10% chance of faction ignoring your neutrality
10-19 = 15%
5-9 = 20%
1-4 = 50%
0 or lower - Don't give a rats putidy about your neutrality.

Relationship loss for attack an NPC ship isn't touched at all in this possible solution. All that happens is that factions who like you will tend to be more peaceful but you would still have to choice to ignore violations of your neutrality or lose faction dealing with them.

I am not a programmer but I would think the logic would be pretty easy to implement. Something like that.

Set Sector neutrality = 1 or 0 (yes or no)

Then Faction A ship encounters Faction B ship a simple check occurs. Ship A calls queries the sector to see if Sector Neutrality is set to 1 or 0. If 0 if attacks as per normal. If set to 1 a query is sent to Table A to determine if encountered ship B is "attackable". Table A contains several 1 or 0 responses based on relationship with the sectors controlling faction. Relationship check happens. RNG check happens based on the probabilities contained in Table this results in a 1 or 0 response, 1 triggers the attack, 0 triggers don't attack. Both trigger timer that resets Ship A or B's ability to possibly attack each other again if they encounter each other again say 5 minutes later.

Adding this should be some easy programing. However, the only concern I would have it how much more workload this on AI calculations. The overhead might be too high considering the sheer amount of ships that would potentially be doing these calculations. However if this was limited to player owned sectors only, that should minimize the impact. Another way to limit the impact would be to perhaps have this script only function within say 20 km of a player owned station. I mean space is vast and even if you technically could control thousands of cubic km of space, there are bound to be nefarious things happening out of site. Having a 20 km zone around player controlled stations would probably reduce the number of ships having to make these calculations to less than a few hundred tops and probably more like 40-50 in most cases.

Anyway, is it entirely possible to do something like this I am sure, however it is just a matter if the devs would feel it worth the time to add, troubleshoot, test and implement especially since I am not sure how you would go about calculating the overhead cost without actually adding in the code to test it in the first place.

[BlackRain]

No Rep Malus if you destroy a ship that fired on you first. After all that means those ships are actually criminals in this case.
The option to enforce peace or at the very least attack those that broke the peace without suffering any REP penalties.

We need to come up with things which are possible. It is not possible to get rid of rep loss from attacking ships as far as I know. Same for your second suggestion.

Well that depends on your definition of possible. The Devs absolutely could do all these things, it is just a matter of adding in the necessary programing and if you really want to get down to it, actually being able to actually "Control" or "Enforce" what happens in your own sectors would go a long way to making territory control meaningful.

However, possible isn't always easy so some possible easy solution to what chip56 asks for would be things like a simple "neutral" tag that you can place on your sectors. Then any one attacking another ship in your territory get immediately tagged as hostile. Also to make things more dynamic just tie the frequency of other factions ships ignoring your "neutrality" be based on your reputation with that faction. Something like this.

Faction Level
25+ = 5% chance of faction ignoring your neutrality
20-24 = 10% chance of faction ignoring your neutrality
10-19 = 15%
5-9 = 20%
1-4 = 50%
0 or lower - Don't give a rats putidy about your neutrality.

Relationship loss for attack an NPC ship isn't touched at all in this possible solution. All that happens is that factions who like you will tend to be more peaceful but you would still have to choice to ignore violations of your neutrality or lose faction dealing with them.

I am not a programmer but I would think the logic would be pretty easy to implement. Something like that.

Set Sector neutrality = 1 or 0 (yes or no)

Then Faction A ship encounters Faction B ship a simple check occurs. Ship A calls queries the sector to see if Sector Neutrality is set to 1 or 0. If 0 if attacks as per normal. If set to 1 a query is sent to Table A to determine if encountered ship B is "attackable". Table A contains several 1 or 0 responses based on relationship with the sectors controlling faction. Relationship check happens. RNG check happens based on the probabilities contained in Table this results in a 1 or 0 response, 1 triggers the attack, 0 triggers don't attack. Both trigger timer that resets Ship A or B's ability to possibly attack each other again if they encounter each other again say 5 minutes later.

Adding this should be some easy programing. However, the only concern I would have it how much more workload this on AI calculations. The overhead might be too high considering the sheer amount of ships that would potentially be doing these calculations. However if this was limited to player owned sectors only, that should minimize the impact. Another way to limit the impact would be to perhaps have this script only function within say 20 km of a player owned station. I mean space is vast and even if you technically could control thousands of cubic km of space, there are bound to be nefarious things happening out of site. Having a 20 km zone around player controlled stations would probably reduce the number of ships having to make these calculations to less than a few hundred tops and probably more like 40-50 in most cases.

Anyway, is it entirely possible to do something like this I am sure, however it is just a matter if the devs would feel it worth the time to add, troubleshoot, test and implement especially since I am not sure how you would go about calculating the overhead cost without actually adding in the code to test it in the first place.

I don't think you understand what I was saying. It is not possible through modding as far as I know. I guess you could have a script which checks for ships fighting and then make them hostile, etc. but this is a lot of work and and more scripts running constantly. Well, I don't plan on doing anything so complex.

[chip56]

Wouldnt it be possible to check if its your sector and make a ship a criminal if its rep hits -20?
If they are fighting you get the temp rep malus already so it would be low rep.

Only issues i can think of right now with that approach would be that it could be abusable (you attack first and they turn hostile and thus criminal) and that if you have any missions to kill x ships of a faction it would not count.