Weapon damage spreadsheet (Updating with other component data)

[clowncar2131]

No, the burst DPS of lasers is not correct.
It shows damage multiplied by firing rate, but (when ammo > 1) the firing rate actually applies to the salvo, not to the delay between salvos.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, that's exactly correct, and was my intention with 'Burst DPS'. The pulse laser fires N shots in rapid succession, where N is the Ammunition value and the rate of fire is determined by Reload Rate. However once the pulse laser fires off those N shots, it needs to reload, with reload rate determined by the Ammo Reload, so for example the the S pulse mk2 fires 4 shots at a rate of 16 shots per second as specified by the 'Reload Rate', after firing those 4 shots it has to reload for 0.7 seconds. Burst DPS in this chart is just DPS for a single salvo in the case of Pulse laser and Gatling, it's the DPS before you take into account the fact that these weapons run out of ammo and have to take time to reload.

[Geek]

If you intend to show salvo damage, then it is wrong.
Firing rate is irrelevant for lasers because of ammo capacity is much lower.

[clowncar2131]

If you intend to show salvo damage, then it is wrong.
Firing rate is irrelevant for lasers because of ammo capacity is much lower.

No, not at all. My intention was to show Shot damage multiplied by the RPS specified in 'Reload Rate'. I am very well aware of the limited ammo capacity of Pulse Lasers and fully account for that in the eRPS and sustained DPS calculations. Salvo damage would be a different calculation specified by damage per shot multiplied by ammo value, which is not what Burst DPS is.

If you argue that 'Burst DPS' is a pointless metric (which I happen to kind of agree with), that's different, but the Burst DPS displayed was exactly my intent, damage per round multiplied by how fast each shot is fired (before even considering ammo limitations).

[clowncar2131]

So the burst DPS of the Pulse Laser is higher than that of the Gatling but the sustained hull/shield DPS is lower even though the Gatling has to reaload? How is that possible or rather what am I overlooking?

The 'Burst DPS' isn't really a great metric, and I put it there only for a sense of completeness. The Burst DPS is simply the damage of the shots multiplied by the rate of fire 'Reload Rate'. The Pulse laser has such high apparent burst dps because, in the case of the S mk 2, it fires 37 damage shots at a rate of 16 shots per second, which gives 592 DPS, but that's misleading because it only actually has 4 shots per 'magazine' or whatever you want to call it, so it fires those 4 shots at 16 RPS, thus firing for a total of 37*4, or 148 damage fired off in the span of 0.25 seconds (4shots/16RPS). Problem is once it fires those 4 shots, it has a 0.7 second 'ammo reload' where it's not firing. The sustained dps takes into account the effective RPS of each weapon and becomes a much more realistic metric, though it fails once you encounter heat overload.

Maybe salvo damage would have been a better metric to include in place of 'Burst dps'. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

[clowncar2131]

In the interest of trying to clear up as much of the (understandable) confusion here as possible:

M Pulse Laser mk1 does 44 damage per shot according to the game files. It has a rate of fire of 10 shots per second and 2 Ammunition. So it will fire those 2 shots in 2/10 = 0.2 seconds, dealing 2 * 44 damage = 88 damage in 0.2 seconds. Since that 88 damage is done in only 0.2 seconds, that salvo BRIEFLY does 440 DPS (0.2 * 5 = 1 second -> 88 * 5 = 440). That's what 'Burst DPS' was intended to display, it's not salvo damage, but the rate of salvo damage in terms of damage done per second, problem with this is that salvos are not at all sustained. Pulse laser salvos are VERY brief, in this case lasting only 0.2 seconds. So it does do 440 burst DPS, but it's only capable of doing that for 0.2 seconds (totaling 88 damage).

[x3ap_gotcha]

Hi thanks for this.
I am trying some modding and noticed that your small plasma damage values seem not correct?
Applying your equation for effective RPS I get:
Effective RPS = Ammo/((Ammo/Reload Rate) + Ammo Reload)

1/(1/1.25+1) = 0.56 for Mk1 and
1/(1/1+1) = 0.5 for Mk2

this gives me hull and damage values of 125.56 for Mk1 and 275 for Mk2

which makes them a bit stronger than the gatling but not so much,

Or am I missing something?

[clowncar2131]

Hi thanks for this.
I am trying some modding and noticed that your small plasma damage values seem not correct?
Applying your equation for effective RPS I get:
Effective RPS = Ammo/((Ammo/Reload Rate) + Ammo Reload)

1/(1/1.25+1) = 0.56 for Mk1 and
1/(1/1+1) = 0.5 for Mk2

this gives me hull and damage values of 125.56 for Mk1 and 275 for Mk2

which makes them a bit stronger than the gatling but not so much,

Or am I missing something?

The issue is the value of 1 you inserted for 'Ammo Reload', Plasma weapons have no Ammo Reload value (Zero effectively). The column for Ammo Reload should be blank for all weapons except gatlings and pulse lasers (If they're not, that was an error on my part).

So the it should be as:
1/(1/1.25 + 0) = 1.25
1/(1/1 + 0) =1

Since plasma, shotgun, and ion don't actually have an ammo value or use the ammo system, their Reload Rates and eRPS should be identical. Beams are a strange and special case.

In terms of the spreadsheet, the exact formula for eRPS is =(h/(h/d + i), where the letters correspond to the column value for that particular row.

I should further add that in if you want exact precision for all ammo weapon numbers, the formula for ammo weapons only (trying to apply this to non ammo weapons would result in division by zero) should probably be something like Ammo/((Ammo/ReloadRate - 1/ReloadRate) + Ammo Reload) so as to account for the fact that there is no delay before the first shot and probably no delay after the last shot. This was an oversight on my part, that I haven't yet gotten around to fixing.

[Jean Pagette]

Missile are mans best friend, so far.

[Carbon_smith]

Hmm, was looking into M type turrets and noticed how much better pulse turrets seem to be in tracking enemy S and M fighters. Turns out they have by far the highest rotation speed, which for a constant range translates into much better "tracking" velocity… Additionally all Paranid versions have ~ 10% better rotation speed. Add on top of that a rotation speed modification and the pulse turrets become quite useful in suppressing enemy fighters.

Fun Fact: all L Type turrets have the same small rotation speed (19°/s) and are thus only useful for L type enemies - I go with a mix of max damage output and range for those.

[caltrop]

Does the DPS figure for turret weapon take into account the number of barrels figure for each turret?

Ie beams have 1, the rest have 2 so the rest should be doubled up or is the figure quoted per barrel?

[clowncar2131]

Hmm, was looking into M type turrets and noticed how much better pulse turrets seem to be in tracking enemy S and M fighters. Turns out they have by far the highest rotation speed, which for a constant range translates into much better "tracking" velocity… Additionally all Paranid versions have ~ 10% better rotation speed. Add on top of that a rotation speed modification and the pulse turrets become quite useful in suppressing enemy fighters.

Fun Fact: all L Type turrets have the same small rotation speed (19°/s) and are thus only useful for L type enemies - I go with a mix of max damage output and range for those.

Good to know! I honesty haven't spent much time examining turret tracking or anything outside of the raw bullet values.

Does the DPS figure for turret weapon take into account the number of barrels figure for each turret?

Ie beams have 1, the rest have 2 so the rest should be doubled up or is the figure quoted per barrel?

The values for the sustained DPS (Hull) and DPS (Shield) columns are multiplied by the numbers of barrels. So those numbers are per turret. The Salvo damages and DPS are still per barrel and would have to be doubled to get a figure for each turret. I intend to try to clarify the figures as best I can once I have a little more time to sit down and do it.

[strask412]

Hey I just wanted to drop a thank you in this thread to clowncar2131 for the spreadsheet and especially the copy-able version on google sheets. I have found it useful.

[clowncar2131]

Hey I just wanted to drop a thank you in this thread to clowncar2131 for the spreadsheet and especially the copy-able version on google sheets. I have found it useful.

I'm glad to have helped. The community behind the X games is one of the best parts of the series, so I'm happy to contribute to it in whatever small way I can.

[Dirk-Jan]

In my game the beam doesn't seem to do much harm at all. Bolt always seem to miss. I'm sticking with pulse laser

[RainerPrem]

In my game the beam doesn't seem to do much harm at all. Bolt always seem to miss. I'm sticking with pulse laser

Beam is my weapon of choice. It's the only one I can keep fixed on the target while we both are moving. My Nemesis has four of them with different modifications, so one of them is always active and keeping shields down, while the others cool.

[Carbon_smith]

Hmm, was looking into M type turrets and noticed how much better pulse turrets seem to be in tracking enemy S and M fighters. Turns out they have by far the highest rotation speed, which for a constant range translates into much better "tracking" velocity… Additionally all Paranid versions have ~ 10% better rotation speed. Add on top of that a rotation speed modification and the pulse turrets become quite useful in suppressing enemy fighters.

Fun Fact: all L Type turrets have the same small rotation speed (19°/s) and are thus only useful for L type enemies - I go with a mix of max damage output and range for those.

Good to know! I honesty haven't spent much time examining turret tracking or anything outside of the raw bullet values.

Not completely sure I got all the values correctly, but here are some data on M type turrets

Type; rotation speed [°/s] Paranid version; angular speed [m/s] @ 1958 m range (shotgun) range*2*pi*rot.speed/360;

M Turret Beam mk1; 98; 3349;
M Turret Gatling mk1; 197; 6732;
M Turret Laser mk1; 230; 7860;
M Turret Plasma mk1; 66; 2255;
M Turret Shotgun mk1; 181; 6185;

combine that with speed and range and you get what you see in the game. Personally I stick to the pulse laser, but maybe i should give the beam a try.