My first 48 hours of X4

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memxcom
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My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 13:39

I was going to buy it on day one but decided to wait for a patch or two, anyway now I have the game :) .

I'm an old vet with X rebirth and previous games so going to x4 I was hoping for easy learning curve, well I was wrong there, my first issue was the famous or infamous docking of your elite vanguard, first few times ship crashes and blew up, after that it went through the floor ( bug). Anyway I went to youtube and the guide there was very helpful ( I mastered dockings ) but eventually got the mk2 software for landing, I started doing those solo missions like repairing satellites and mine clearing to earn money, with 10k to start with you need a lot of missions just to get a decent mining or trading ship, right now just flying around the system exploring the areas doing solo missions, no crashes yet so excellent on stability.

My main issue for beginners is steep learning curve and not enough solo mission content, I had a nice repair satellite mission for 150k ,got to second satellite and stupid xenon blew it up so that repair mission failed and it takes ages to find another decent paying job mission, those 15k ones are crap IMHO and are OK if you want to spend 50 years playing X4.

We need a lot more 100k + missions, sure I can use the cheat and add 100 million credits or more to my game, but have not done that , problem with the game is basics are there but minimal IMHO (especially compared to X rebirth), it takes awhile to make money and more important find any decent solo missions. Right now I have about 3 million credits in total, now that leaves me to the next decision is with weapons, so far only upgraded to the pulsar mk2 which is crap IMHO so I want to upgrade that but with what weapon?..Then I have to decide on mining ship or trading ship with crew , medium or large and lastly which one will be more profitable? Finding a damn manager for my station which so far seems impossible, let alone pay for my station plot( the one you get at start of game) which if I have figured it out right is in red(plot wise) to start with so needs paying for ASAP even before you do anything to the station(another million credits). I made friends with a few factions so that has opened up more items I can buy like argon military weapons for example.

A lot of things I have figured out like leaving your ship in space , docking/undocking, deploying satellites, scanning, right click on jump gates to get a follow way point marker guide etc, using shift and 1 to travel fast, did some crafting (medic kits). Some of the gates are hard to find, so trying to find them to open up new sectors.


Anyway not a rant but just my frustration with parts of the game, you expect some frustration to start with and yes things get easier when money starts rolling in, but as I stated it needs more solo content missions for beginners, so any feedback on my above questions etc is very welcomed in pointing me in the right direction on where to spend my money wisely etc...

Last question any useful X4 extensions I should be looking at?

Btw I should say running X4 fine (1080p) on my very humble Intel i5 2500k CPU@4.4GHZ,16GB ram, XFX Black edition OC 8gb RX480 card (Steam CE version).

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 19:03

I paid for my station plot ie 1 million credits, did not know you lose faction points with Argon if its in the red for your station ie no plot licence, upgrading weapon to bolt mk2, to be honest I think fighter weapons suck big time compared to X Rebirth.

Still exploring but not many solo missions around in the 100k plus, they pop up now and then but you just hanging around trying to find one in different sectors.

blin25
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by blin25 » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 20:45

memxcom wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 19:03

Still exploring but not many solo missions around in the 100k plus, they pop up now and then but you just hanging around trying to find one in different sectors.

Try to look for crystals on asteroid fields. Their 5 types at prices from 1k to 250k on average.

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Loneshade
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Loneshade » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 22:25

seriously? :gruebel:
I personally found those 150K payments to repair a satellite that's worth 5K rather excessive.... I actually thought that's a bug.
Or the average 10K bounty to shoot down a xenon... money comes fairly fast even in the beginning. If I hadn't had a very long learning curve as in trying to buy my own xl construction ship prior to building my first factory, I'd probably have thought money was way too easy.

just hire a few auto-miners and traders (and don't be shy to tell them to comply with pirates when needed) and you'll slowly but surely have passive income filling your pockets.....

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 23:56

Well I have been mining crystals for the last hour or so , I made made 7 million credits worth , was lucky found the expensive ones :), personally will do this for awhile until I can get some nice large mining ships :) .

Personally best option for beginners is crystal mining, gets max income and easy to do, I have also mapped out the entire sectors, so will just do mining for now, no need for solo missions like mine clearing when crystal mining is making money fast :) .

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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by lazy_banana » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 23:58

memxcom wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 13:39
Some of the gates are hard to find, so trying to find them to open up new sectors.
Did you try long-range scanning? When I'm exploring a sector I do 4-6 long range scans to cover all directions and then check the map. Unknown objects revealed by the scan are usually gates or accelerators. Then I fly to whatever zone has stations or a gate, explore it, do some more scans and repeat until I get bored.

You should play the tutorials. They're very minimal and unpolished and you can't skip through them but at least they explain the basics. I wish they did the tutorials as isolated scenarios where you could go HAM, as they designed them in X2. All X games since then sucked in terms of tutorials by comparison.

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 01:48

lazy_banana wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 23:58
memxcom wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 13:39
Some of the gates are hard to find, so trying to find them to open up new sectors.
Did you try long-range scanning? When I'm exploring a sector I do 4-6 long range scans to cover all directions and then check the map. Unknown objects revealed by the scan are usually gates or accelerators. Then I fly to whatever zone has stations or a gate, explore it, do some more scans and repeat until I get bored.

You should play the tutorials. They're very minimal and unpolished and you can't skip through them but at least they explain the basics. I wish they did the tutorials as isolated scenarios where you could go HAM, as they designed them in X2. All X games since then sucked in terms of tutorials by comparison.
I have now explored all sectors, thanks anyway :) .

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 09:38

lazy_banana wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 23:58
You should play the tutorials. They're very minimal and unpolished and you can't skip through them but at least they explain the basics.
The only tutorial I have completed is the one required for a Steam Achievement, the rest I have ignored.
lazy_banana wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 23:58
I wish they did the tutorials as isolated scenarios where you could go HAM, as they designed them in X2. All X games since then sucked in terms of tutorials by comparison.
I agree - Elite Dangerous has taken a comparable approach to X2 where tutorials are concerned.

The only real advantage of Egosoft's integrated tutorial approach is the time spent on the tutorials can help to contribute to play through progress and in pre-X4 games was reasonably well integrated with the game flow. The only reason I even found the tutorials in X4 is because I was wondering why (after playing so far through) I had not seen any indication of a pilot tutorial (not a problem since the controls are very similar to X-Rebirth) and so went exploring the menus to discover how I could get the most basic achievement squared away.

I must admit that I did not pick the Young Gun start for my first play through either, I gather that the Young Gun start has the tutorials integrated as they were in the X3 and X-Rebirth games.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 12:01

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Sat, 23. Feb 19, 09:38
lazy_banana wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 23:58
You should play the tutorials. They're very minimal and unpolished and you can't skip through them but at least they explain the basics.
The only tutorial I have completed is the one required for a Steam Achievement, the rest I have ignored.
lazy_banana wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 23:58
I wish they did the tutorials as isolated scenarios where you could go HAM, as they designed them in X2. All X games since then sucked in terms of tutorials by comparison.
I agree - Elite Dangerous has taken a comparable approach to X2 where tutorials are concerned.

The only real advantage of Egosoft's integrated tutorial approach is the time spent on the tutorials can help to contribute to play through progress and in pre-X4 games was reasonably well integrated with the game flow. The only reason I even found the tutorials in X4 is because I was wondering why (after playing so far through) I had not seen any indication of a pilot tutorial (not a problem since the controls are very similar to X-Rebirth) and so went exploring the menus to discover how I could get the most basic achievement squared away.

I must admit that I did not pick the Young Gun start for my first play through either, I gather that the Young Gun start has the tutorials integrated as they were in the X3 and X-Rebirth games.
I actually picked "young gun" at start, but it is not in your face tutorial (ie you have to select it and want to do it), being X rebirth vet dived straight in, the only two guides you need at start are docking and how to mine crystals ( I did not know it was in the game) to make fast money, I found the first on Youtube and second on the web. X Rebirth is easier to dive into and make money easier ie lots of missions compared to X4 ( I'm sure they will add a lot more mission content down the road to fix that).

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Sun, 24. Feb 19, 20:25

Even crystal mining is getting annoying now, I spent about 10 minutes mining and 40 minutes yes 40 minutes fighting damn xeon and scale pact ships among the asteroids that would not leave me alone, it takes so long to kill even one ship let alone four or five, then more turn up, they need to balance the game more with regards to how many enemy ships turn up in mining areas that are nowhere near hostile areas, ruined my crystal mining day today ( I had to leave the system), did not make much money at all, I wish the weapons were better too, in X rebirth it was not hassle taking the fighters down, in this game its long and tedious just for one fight kill.

I keep thinking of going back to X rebirth at least that game was enjoyable. Yes frustration setting in, games should be enjoyable not annoying.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:14

memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 20:25
Even crystal mining is getting annoying now, I spent about 10 minutes mining and 40 minutes yes 40 minutes fighting damn xeon and scale pact ships among the asteroids that would not leave me alone
There are some relatively peaceful and reasonably reliably profitable crystal mining areas... at least IME.

Try Argon Prime for one.
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 20:25
it takes so long to kill even one ship let alone four or five, then more turn up
I don't find combat that bad myself, some even complain it is too easy.

If you think you are taking too long to kill even one ship then you should look at your loadouts and ship choices more carefully.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:35

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:14
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 20:25
Even crystal mining is getting annoying now, I spent about 10 minutes mining and 40 minutes yes 40 minutes fighting damn xeon and scale pact ships among the asteroids that would not leave me alone
There are some relatively peaceful and reasonably reliably profitable crystal mining areas... at least IME.

Try Argon Prime for one.
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 20:25
it takes so long to kill even one ship let alone four or five, then more turn up
I don't find combat that bad myself, some even complain it is too easy.

If you think you are taking too long to kill even one ship then you should look at your loadouts and ship choices more carefully.
Well area I was in was Heretic's end, as to ship upgrades done that on my vanguard elite fighter, using bolt mk2 versions, shields, engines,thrusters all upgraded (travel ones).

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Sun, 24. Feb 19, 22:25

memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:35
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:14
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 20:25
Even crystal mining is getting annoying now, I spent about 10 minutes mining and 40 minutes yes 40 minutes fighting damn xeon and scale pact ships among the asteroids that would not leave me alone
There are some relatively peaceful and reasonably reliably profitable crystal mining areas... at least IME.

Try Argon Prime for one.
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 20:25
it takes so long to kill even one ship let alone four or five, then more turn up
I don't find combat that bad myself, some even complain it is too easy.

If you think you are taking too long to kill even one ship then you should look at your loadouts and ship choices more carefully.
Well area I was in was Heretic's end, as to ship upgrades done that on my vanguard elite fighter, using bolt mk2 versions, shields, engines,thrusters all upgraded (travel ones).
That explains alot... the Elite is not exactly the best fighter to be using if you want quicker battles. You would be better off with either a Disco (it's speed is it's main asset) or a Nova... better yet an Eclipse or Quasar/Pulsar. The Eclipse is tougher but the Quasar/Pulsar have more weapon mounts. The Elite is an ok fighter but it's single weapon mount means quick kills are not really it's forte.

If you are in Heretics End and have not claimed it yet then the level of hostiles is well with-in expectations IME... it may not be an inherently hostile sector but it is not a friendly one either. Going mining there and complaining about pirates and xenon is a bit like swimming in the open sea and complaining about the poisonous/dangerous sea life (both are to be expected).
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Mon, 25. Feb 19, 12:09

I agree think it is my ship, need more weapon mounts so I can kill quicker, will have a look at the other ships :) .

Thanks.

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Mon, 25. Feb 19, 23:31

I purchased a Nemesis Vanguard, nice cockpit and plenty of weapons, seems easy now to kill the enemies, fast as well :) .

pref
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by pref » Wed, 27. Feb 19, 21:43

memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:35
engines,thrusters all upgraded (travel ones).
I found that travel engines are really bad, low boost duration, long time for travel drive to kick in. Makes any ship much less mobile - and it's not documented anywhere.
The travel speed loss is negligible compared to the disadvantages of travel drive.
Worth a try at least, you can swap it back if you don't like it.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Wed, 27. Feb 19, 22:12

pref wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 21:43
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:35
engines,thrusters all upgraded (travel ones).
I found that travel engines are really bad, low boost duration, long time for travel drive to kick in. Makes any ship much less mobile - and it's not documented anywhere.
The travel speed loss is negligible compared to the disadvantages of travel drive.
Worth a try at least, you can swap it back if you don't like it.
Sometimes the gains of the Travel Drive are justified, others it is not - if unsure, the All-round option is a safe bet.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

pref
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by pref » Wed, 27. Feb 19, 23:20

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 22:12
pref wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 21:43
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:35
engines,thrusters all upgraded (travel ones).
I found that travel engines are really bad, low boost duration, long time for travel drive to kick in. Makes any ship much less mobile - and it's not documented anywhere.
The travel speed loss is negligible compared to the disadvantages of travel drive.
Worth a try at least, you can swap it back if you don't like it.
Sometimes the gains of the Travel Drive are justified, others it is not - if unsure, the All-round option is a safe bet.
No, all-rounders have the same problem compared to combat engines. Each has it's use but it's not like a "safe bet", they don't provide the mobility halfway between travel and combat.
Balance is more concerned about top speeds vs costs, not the features that often matter much more - with those combat engines are unique with minor travel speed disadvantage.
Imo it's more like travel engine for traders or explorers that travel a lot without highways, allround is a cheap solution just to get a ship moving, combat works well if having to fight more then once in a day.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 09:12

pref wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 23:20
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 22:12
pref wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 21:43


I found that travel engines are really bad, low boost duration, long time for travel drive to kick in. Makes any ship much less mobile - and it's not documented anywhere.
The travel speed loss is negligible compared to the disadvantages of travel drive.
Worth a try at least, you can swap it back if you don't like it.
Sometimes the gains of the Travel Drive are justified, others it is not - if unsure, the All-round option is a safe bet.
No, all-rounders have the same problem compared to combat engines. Each has it's use but it's not like a "safe bet", they don't provide the mobility halfway between travel and combat.
Balance is more concerned about top speeds vs costs, not the features that often matter much more - with those combat engines are unique with minor travel speed disadvantage.
Imo it's more like travel engine for traders or explorers that travel a lot without highways, all-round is a cheap solution just to get a ship moving, combat works well if having to fight more then once in a day.
Balance overall is not just about top speeds v. price it is about overall capability (tops speed and price are factors but not the only ones), depending on piloting style, ship selection and tactics different factors will have a different level of significance to the individual concerned. This was one of the driving philosophies behind the modular approach to the Albion Skunk in X-Rebirth and the same basic philosophy applies to the general modular approach to ship designs in X4.

Having used all three engines myself:-
  • All-round is balanced across the board
  • Travel drives sacrifice Boost/Acceleration/Cruise for Travel Speed
  • Combat drives sacrifice Travel Speed for Boost/Acceleration/Cruise
Argon versions tend to be more Travel Speed oriented, Paranid versions more Cruise/Boost speed oriented, and Teladi versions seem to have better stopping/reverse speeds (at least at the capital level - at S/M level they may be just worst specifications but cheaper than Argon/Paranid versions) - this was true in 1.6, not sure about 2.0 but I do not believe this has changed.

The best place for new players (or players without both the blueprints and their own ship construction/maintenance facility) to get an appreciation for the affect of the range of engine specifications in the context of S/M ships is probably the ALI Wharf in Trinity Sanctum VII

Manoeuvrability is not just affected by the choice of engine - the choice of thrusters is as important if not more so. Engine selection will have an effect but faster speeds will mean larger turning arcs though good acceleration/deceleration control can mitigate that to a degree. Thruster choice affects Roll/Pitch/Yaw speeds with All-round Thrusters being balanced and Combat Thrusters sacrificing Yaw for Roll/Pitch. Again, the choice of thrusters is not as clear cut either as alot depends on flying style, tactics and use cases.

When considering loadouts for ships not directly flown by the player there are some more hard and fast rules of thumb since the AI does not really vary between players. However, for personal ships things are anything but clear cut.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

BrasatoAlBarolo
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 11:47

I build travel drive on all my trading / mining ships, because in my opinion travel speed is what they need.

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