My first 48 hours of X4

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pref
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by pref » Wed, 27. Feb 19, 21:43

memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:35
engines,thrusters all upgraded (travel ones).
I found that travel engines are really bad, low boost duration, long time for travel drive to kick in. Makes any ship much less mobile - and it's not documented anywhere.
The travel speed loss is negligible compared to the disadvantages of travel drive.
Worth a try at least, you can swap it back if you don't like it.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Wed, 27. Feb 19, 22:12

pref wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 21:43
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:35
engines,thrusters all upgraded (travel ones).
I found that travel engines are really bad, low boost duration, long time for travel drive to kick in. Makes any ship much less mobile - and it's not documented anywhere.
The travel speed loss is negligible compared to the disadvantages of travel drive.
Worth a try at least, you can swap it back if you don't like it.
Sometimes the gains of the Travel Drive are justified, others it is not - if unsure, the All-round option is a safe bet.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

pref
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by pref » Wed, 27. Feb 19, 23:20

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 22:12
pref wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 21:43
memxcom wrote:
Sun, 24. Feb 19, 21:35
engines,thrusters all upgraded (travel ones).
I found that travel engines are really bad, low boost duration, long time for travel drive to kick in. Makes any ship much less mobile - and it's not documented anywhere.
The travel speed loss is negligible compared to the disadvantages of travel drive.
Worth a try at least, you can swap it back if you don't like it.
Sometimes the gains of the Travel Drive are justified, others it is not - if unsure, the All-round option is a safe bet.
No, all-rounders have the same problem compared to combat engines. Each has it's use but it's not like a "safe bet", they don't provide the mobility halfway between travel and combat.
Balance is more concerned about top speeds vs costs, not the features that often matter much more - with those combat engines are unique with minor travel speed disadvantage.
Imo it's more like travel engine for traders or explorers that travel a lot without highways, allround is a cheap solution just to get a ship moving, combat works well if having to fight more then once in a day.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 09:12

pref wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 23:20
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 22:12
pref wrote:
Wed, 27. Feb 19, 21:43


I found that travel engines are really bad, low boost duration, long time for travel drive to kick in. Makes any ship much less mobile - and it's not documented anywhere.
The travel speed loss is negligible compared to the disadvantages of travel drive.
Worth a try at least, you can swap it back if you don't like it.
Sometimes the gains of the Travel Drive are justified, others it is not - if unsure, the All-round option is a safe bet.
No, all-rounders have the same problem compared to combat engines. Each has it's use but it's not like a "safe bet", they don't provide the mobility halfway between travel and combat.
Balance is more concerned about top speeds vs costs, not the features that often matter much more - with those combat engines are unique with minor travel speed disadvantage.
Imo it's more like travel engine for traders or explorers that travel a lot without highways, all-round is a cheap solution just to get a ship moving, combat works well if having to fight more then once in a day.
Balance overall is not just about top speeds v. price it is about overall capability (tops speed and price are factors but not the only ones), depending on piloting style, ship selection and tactics different factors will have a different level of significance to the individual concerned. This was one of the driving philosophies behind the modular approach to the Albion Skunk in X-Rebirth and the same basic philosophy applies to the general modular approach to ship designs in X4.

Having used all three engines myself:-
  • All-round is balanced across the board
  • Travel drives sacrifice Boost/Acceleration/Cruise for Travel Speed
  • Combat drives sacrifice Travel Speed for Boost/Acceleration/Cruise
Argon versions tend to be more Travel Speed oriented, Paranid versions more Cruise/Boost speed oriented, and Teladi versions seem to have better stopping/reverse speeds (at least at the capital level - at S/M level they may be just worst specifications but cheaper than Argon/Paranid versions) - this was true in 1.6, not sure about 2.0 but I do not believe this has changed.

The best place for new players (or players without both the blueprints and their own ship construction/maintenance facility) to get an appreciation for the affect of the range of engine specifications in the context of S/M ships is probably the ALI Wharf in Trinity Sanctum VII

Manoeuvrability is not just affected by the choice of engine - the choice of thrusters is as important if not more so. Engine selection will have an effect but faster speeds will mean larger turning arcs though good acceleration/deceleration control can mitigate that to a degree. Thruster choice affects Roll/Pitch/Yaw speeds with All-round Thrusters being balanced and Combat Thrusters sacrificing Yaw for Roll/Pitch. Again, the choice of thrusters is not as clear cut either as alot depends on flying style, tactics and use cases.

When considering loadouts for ships not directly flown by the player there are some more hard and fast rules of thumb since the AI does not really vary between players. However, for personal ships things are anything but clear cut.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

BrasatoAlBarolo
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 11:47

I build travel drive on all my trading / mining ships, because in my opinion travel speed is what they need.

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 13:13

Only issue I have with my Nemesis Vanguard is it takes awhile to stop or slow right down, so I'm overshooting in manual pilot mode, so not sure if this is thrusters or engine related.

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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by VincentTH » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 19:48

memxcom wrote:
Thu, 28. Feb 19, 13:13
Only issue I have with my Nemesis Vanguard is it takes awhile to stop or slow right down, so I'm overshooting in manual pilot mode, so not sure if this is thrusters or engine related.
I only use the nemesis for boarding destroyers and/or fighting Xenon K. For every other chores, the ANT Pulsar is the best fighter, IMHO.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 20:46

memxcom wrote:
Thu, 28. Feb 19, 13:13
Only issue I have with my Nemesis Vanguard is it takes awhile to stop or slow right down, so I'm overshooting in manual pilot mode, so not sure if this is thrusters or engine related.
Engines and Mass - the faster you travel and the lower the (braking) Thrust:Mass ratio the longer it will take you to stop. This can be compensated for in a few ways but the simplest is learning your stopping distance and at what distance you need to start braking.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

memxcom
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Re: My first 48 hours of X4

Post by memxcom » Fri, 3. May 19, 13:07

VincentTH wrote:
Thu, 28. Feb 19, 19:48
memxcom wrote:
Thu, 28. Feb 19, 13:13
Only issue I have with my Nemesis Vanguard is it takes awhile to stop or slow right down, so I'm overshooting in manual pilot mode, so not sure if this is thrusters or engine related.
I only use the nemesis for boarding destroyers and/or fighting Xenon K. For every other chores, the ANT Pulsar is the best fighter, IMHO.
I still love my nemesis, claimed a few more abandoned ships from sectors, have six huge stations built and loads of ships, installed the battleship mod (which the game lacks) that is quite fun, all sectors fully explored and uncovered, game is a little boring now as you don't have much to do with regards to missions, I did lose a few medium trader ships to pirates etc but gave them fighter escorts and a few destroyers etc patrolling. Still a few bugs in the game and learning curve is much higher then Rebirth, beginners should remember to clear all orders if your ships are stuck and not doing anything. Easy to see what stations are short off especially in shipyards, try buying a ship and see what shortage they have ie weapon components, engines or hulls etc for the build.

Game is slower paced then Rebirth, takes awhile to build stations in my cases 4 to 7 days of playing just for one station. I still feel it is missing content and the xenon war is kind of boring, just go around destroying their ships and weapon platforms so far. I gave up on crystal mining as it's kind of pointless once you have decent money coming in, great for start of game however.

Been playing now for nearly three months, btw not figured why I get cannot dock message on some of my medium trader ships when trading with other stations( bug?), or trade could not be completed etc , a lot of vague messages. Most funny bug is on some stations for ship upgrades etc if you land and just want more marines (nothing else), says not enough resources ie silicon chips, I want people not parts lol. Another bug is claiming ships, even after clearing mines the ship just sits there, remove all orders is greyed out, so what you have to do is tell them join my squad then remove them and tell them again where to go, in my case normally to be repaired, claimed ships sometimes not claiming so you have to hit claim again and send another marine unit,trade ships not trading ie ones the are linked to your stations, what is the point of having 9 trade ships to one station with station storage full of inventory ie hull,smart chips etc when there is a big demand shortage from other faction stations etc...

I also had a bug with owned destroyer said it had no captain on comm, in information for the ship the captain was listed but not in the actual ship, I sold it in the end would not let me have another captain so he was like a ghost captain lol.

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