Any chance of the Guaranteed Derelicts being given a purpose?

[Solomon Short]

Maybe some sort of mini-questline that involves finding/recovering them all then doing something with them?

Or maybe make it so they each have a chance of adding a random SETA component to the "inventory" of the first Captain you assign them?

[dtpsprt]

Maybe some sort of mini-questline that involves finding/recovering them all then doing something with them?

Or maybe make it so they each have a chance of adding a random SETA component to the "inventory" of the first Captain you assign them?

They do serve purposes:

• The Elite in GE I to be the "sacrificial lamb" in the PHQ mission.

• The Courier in Nopileo's Fortune to supplement the Callisto you get with the Hatikvah plot so you can build the first stages of the HQ (dock, S Container and Ventures), they get supplemented to bring everything for the research with the Osprey in Company Regard, which can also carry the drones for the PHQ.

• The Perseus in Silent Witness provides you with a fast reliable S fighter that if you equip it with ARG MK3 Engines can tackle the Engine and the Weapons Research in PHQ.

• The Gorgon (if you have your mind set to it and get the PHQ storyline in HOP or PAE space) will also supplement the research materials and is ideal for the Shield Research due to it's sturdiness and speed. It also serves to get the Odysseus from Faulty Logic carrying personnel for it and fast enough to evade the Xenon, it comes back on top of the Odysseus to "help" the trip with it's turrets while you have already teleported OOS.

• The Drill in The Void is mostly a teaser but if you manage to get it you can put it to Mine Nividium for dear money (and also bring the 2100 Nividium the PHQ needs).

• The Odysseus (of course) speaks of itself...

[Solomon Short]

How do the Fighter & Corvette ships help with research?

Just by being free cargo transports?

[dtpsprt]

How do the Fighter & Corvette ships help with research?

Just by being free cargo transports?

The M's all have big cargo holds so, added with the two S Transports (Callisto and Courier) they can carry stuff for the research.

The other way they do I have written about it through the Perseus' speed and the Gorgon's speed and sturdiness...

[Solomon Short]

So it's just you, me, or other players finding uses for them, rather them actually having a purpose.

That is entirely bass-ackwards to what I was suggesting, especially as it makes them even less useful than claiming them, selling them, & using the money to buy more useful ships or fund abuse of the Advanced Satellite exploit...

[jlehtone]

If those ships have no purpose now, then why are they in the game?
Or put other way: if they were not in the game, would the game be effectively the same?

The game does not have much to explore. These ships are one incentive to explore.

Of course, if they are in predictable locations, then there is no incentive to explore again once you have found them (and memorized location).

[Solomon Short]

The locations are fixed, though I think most of them are beyond the starting boundaries of the sector-hex they're in at the start of the game (though the one that was 10,000km out appears to have been moved to just inside that sector's starting boundary), meaning you either need to fly out manually or repeatedly (like 7-10 times) tell a NPC-pilot ship to fly to the relevant border (pushing it out further) until the ship has been discovered (I've already made my complaints about the sector expansion mechanic known in another thread).

So, no, I don't think they support "Explore", & as between them they're only worth around 20MCr if you sell them, they player effort involved in "finding" them would show a better return on investments if you just focused it on selling Advanced Satellites.

[dtpsprt]

The locations are fixed, though I think most of them are beyond the starting boundaries of the sector-hex they're in at the start of the game (though the one that was 10,000km out appears to have been moved to just inside that sector's starting boundary), meaning you either need to fly out manually or repeatedly (like 7-10 times) tell a NPC-pilot ship to fly to the relevant border (pushing it out further) until the ship has been discovered (I've already made my complaints about the sector expansion mechanic known in another thread).

So, no, I don't think they support "Explore", & as between them they're only worth around 20MCr if you sell them, they player effort involved in "finding" them would show a better return on investments if you just focused it on selling Advanced Satellites.

The only exception, that is inside the starting boundary is the Drill in "The Void". Been trying to grab it in every playthrough (more than 100) but did it only once, because it "dissolves" quickly since it's in the middle of the Danger Zone... probably put there to taunt the player...

As for their value, see my post above, it's not a matter of money it's a matter of usefulness...

[Solomon Short]

For some reason I thought there were 2 additional ships were also inside the starting boundaries, & in my current game the 3.30HF1 update (at a guess) seems to have moved a third into bounds as well...

The additional ships in question being specifically:

Spoiler

Show

The Osprey Vanguard, The Odysseus Vanguard, & The Courier Vanguard.

As for the ships that are likely to be destroyed when you get too close, use a remote vessel/satellite to "discover" it while you're OOS (or even just far enough away IS, AIUI), then claim it remotely with a Marine, & as long as you're far enough away they hazards won't come into effect.

As for the specific one you mentioned, there's a thread, over in the Spoilers forum I think (though it my be on Reddit), where someone mentions that if you spacewalk down to it from above, you can actually take it without it taking any damage (AIUI the damage should only happen to a "ship" that is moving in that area), & presumably they also got it out the same way (also, I think if you fly slow you take less damage, & of course you could then stop when you got down to around 20% hull, spacewalk, repair, rinse & repeat).

[dtpsprt]

For some reason I thought there were 2 additional ships were also inside the starting boundaries, & in my current game the 3.30HF1 update (at a guess) seems to have moved a third into bounds as well...

As for the ships that are likely to be destroyed when you get too close, use a remote vessel/satellite to "discover" it while you're OOS (or even just far enough away IS, AIUI), then claim it remotely with a Marine, & as long as you're far enough away they hazards won't come into effect.

As for the specific one you mentioned, there's a thread, over in the Spoilers forum I think (though it my be on Reddit), where someone mentions that if you spacewalk down to it from above, you can actually take it without it taking any damage (AIUI the damage should only happen to a "ship" that is moving in that area), & presumably they also got it out the same way (also, I think if you fly slow you take less damage, & of course you could then stop when you got down to around 20% hull, spacewalk, repair, rinse & repeat).

The Osprey and the Oddy are "marginally" in, the Courier is waaaay out and as far as this thread about the Drill, I suppose it's very old, because the Claim command does not work since v3.0, the Board one does but you have to be IS and the Drill starts disintegrating the moment you enter the hazard zone yourself...

[Solomon Short]

As I stated, in my current game, started after 3.30HF1 dropped, the Courier Vanguard that used to be 10,000km out is also "barely in" the sector.

With regards to my other points you appear to have conflated my statements & misconstrued the result.

My points are:

• The "Hazardous Region" & "Mines" don't apply when you're OOS or even just not too close IS.
• AIUI you only must use a Marine for boarding for L & XL derelicts, S & M ones can still be claimed by spacewalking.
• You can send a Marine, using whichever command is appropriate, to claim any derelict ship that has been discovered & shows on your map, from anywhere in the sector, the Marine will just take longer to get there if launched from far away.
• Therefore, if you're OOS (e.g. you give the command, then leave the sector) when the Marine gets to the stationary hazards neither the Marine nor the target will take any damage from those hazards, nor will the ship take any damage from them while following movement commands.
• The old thread I referenced just had the one post about claiming the Drill via a Player Spacewalk, which I have done to the "Escape Plan" Gorgon Vanguard in 3.30HF1 & thus must assume applies to the Drill if you can get to it without dying.

Caveats:

• I haven't actually taken over the Drill or Odysseus ships in my 3.30HF1 game, they were last taken before HF1 dropped.
• I have never actually tried clearing the mines around the Odysseus & testing if what I have read about it no longer being possible to claim it by Spacewalking is true.

[dtpsprt]

As I stated, in my current game, started after 3.30HF1 dropped, the Courier Vanguard that used to be 10,000km out is also "barely in" the sector.
Caveats:

• I haven't actually taken over the Drill or Odysseus ships in my 3.30HF1 game, they were last taken before HF1 dropped.
• I have never actually tried clearing the mines around the Odysseus & testing if what I have read about it no longer being possible to claim it by Spacewalking is true.

Well... in answer to your Caveats:

• The Claim command is (and remains) broken, try it in one ship that you have made the pilot abandon, or on any of the Abandoned Ships (except the Odysseus of course) you want or still have in our game. For this reason you can not send a Marine to claim the Drill.
• For the second one, Egosoft said that scanning the Odysseus, like with spacewalking and/or putting an EMP bomb to create leaks for you to scan and claim, which they have fixed, so the only way to get it is with a Marine to board it (no problem).

EDIT: These things happened in V3.20 BETA HOTFIX 2

[jlehtone]

the Claim command does not work since v3.0, the Board one does but you have to be IS

I take it that the "Claim" refers to "command one of your ships to claim a ship they did notice". Yes, that I have noticed to do nothing.
However, why do I have recollection that interaction menu of targeted small ship has "Claim" option that sends a marine from your personal ship to claim (with a bang)? Or was that the "Board IS"?

Is it true that spotting a ship while mapping billions of cubic miles is next to nothing in impressivity?
Monetary or usefulness value: next to nothing, except in the very beginning.

If you find them in the beginning, then you are most likely beelining to them because you "know" where they are. It is no different from running a "add to player inventory" at start. If you do restart, because playing with lots of ships and credits boring, then should you really get lots at start by beelining to known treasure caches?

A puzzle like minefield or other hazard has a purpose: solving it (on your own) allows you to pat yourself on the back for figuring a solution. The ship is irrelevant.

X3 had unique/rare ships and finding/salvaging was about the only shot at getting one to your collection. Having one of each has no credit value.


Void? Been there. Did not pay attention. If there was a teaser on scanner, I did not notice. If it did go boom, can't shed a tear for puzzle that I never knew to be there.

[dtpsprt]

If you find them in the beginning, then you are most likely beelining to them because you "know" where they are. It is no different from running a "add to player inventory" at start. If you do restart, because playing with lots of ships and credits boring, then should you really get lots at start by beelining to known treasure caches?

Of course I do... they take a lot of the initial grinding out cause I start a new game frequently trying different "routes" (both vanilla and moded)... I usually abandon my saved game after 2 - 3 days in game time cause by that point I have all the "prerequisites" to start building ships in a Wharf, after which everything is "set on stone":
You'll anihilate the Xenon (or keep them contained where you want them), you'll start playing God with the factions until you get bored and go for Universe domination which ends the game anyway due to lack of economy... What is there to see or do? Even the (upcoming) Terraforming does not offer anything... just a money sinkhole... OK, maybe you do it once but that's it.....

[jlehtone]

"Initial grind" is not an exact measure. One could just as well think that the game has only two phases:
* "Initial grind" that ends when you can play God
* "Boring grind" that is all you can do as God

Back to:

... some sort of mini-questline that involves finding/recovering them ...

This could be something. Flying 10000km "out there" blindly has next to no chance of success. Mission guidance to the spot would be too way easy.
Hear at Bar that someone had to ditch a ride in The Void and it was just an hour of walk from nearest Gate. That would be decent?
(Alas, there is no "bar gossip", no GalNet News, and finding a Bar takes some effort too.)

[dtpsprt]

"Initial grind" is not an exact measure. One could just as well think that the game has only two phases:
* "Initial grind" that ends when you can play God
* "Boring grind" that is all you can do as God

Maybe I'm alone in this, but "initial grind" is until you have the HQ up and running with the first three teleportation researches done and the module hacks. At the same time finish the Hatikvah storyline so everything is waiting for you to start the other two plots...
Between this point and "playing God" is a 200 million gap before your first operational Wharf, which is the "playground" (at least for me) with the win or loose choices to reach there...