Avarice Plot [SPOILER] so they are doomed if left unattended upon completion?

[NBCDumb]

Hi, I am nearing completion of this plot, I chose the path where I refused to pay while examining the scientific station remains then stole the condensate storage blueprint from the twins. Only thing left to do in the epilogue is to go to pay VIG to stop chasing me. I stole the two Astrid ships as well.
So, if I understand things right, now I'm the only source of protectyon the Avarice system desperately depends upon, and only the player can go pick it up to make it available.

1. I did only want to make sure Avarice would have enough of it for a while and made to runs to pick a full Astrid cargo of it and then sell it to Tidebreak. It triggered the outcome where you are seen as as greedy as the twins. But I only sold it where it made sense to do so, not to do profits, only to help. Having such outcome triggered while trying to help is disappointing.

2. If we are now the only source of protectyon, getting it is not automated and requires sitting in Avarice sector to get informed when the tide arrive then wait for the anomaly to stabilize (not something fun to do more than once, and may not be obvious to all), so there is a hole in the "good" path of this plot: we should be offered the possibility to teach RIP how to get it by themselves (and then have a HUGE boost in friendship and probably a hefty bounty since it will be a huge cost saving thing for them, having the option to give them an Astrid to help them and later be awarded the Astrid blueprint would also be nice). This way the player now not have to babysit them.

[KalisaFox]

they magic protectyon if you dont supply it, if you want the message of helping the people, then you needed to do your first 5 or so deliveries to places that were paying below market value (so only buying 1 or 2) its quite finicky. afterwords you can choose to profit from this or not, they will spawn enough to sustain themselves if you dont supply it but if you choose to supply it, can be alittle profitable, for example I have a small station that i have a single condensate courier set to sell the protectyon i bring back, i have the price locked to 27,300, so my ship does a run every tide or so selling to tidebreak or any others that need an emergency sale, and price doesnt really dip below that since thats where i locked my price, i could sell more to tidebreak but then price average would drop.
You can also hack tidebreak and get it to drop excess protectyon you sold it to help drive prices back up if thats what you want, but the profit from protecyon is actually quite minimal unless u really lean into it. For example you could do runs and sell up to 5000 protecyon to tidebreak, it would destroy the prices but even at minimal price its around 100 million, then do the hacking to clear their excess and do that again once u get your stock up.

[NBCDumb]

if you want the message of helping the people, then you needed to do your first 5 or so deliveries to places that were paying below market value (so only buying 1 or 2) its quite finicky.

Yes, I agree, but this is only a workaround, you should not have to know about every plot bug to have a nice and immersive experience. And not being able to teach RIP how to be independant even if enough if spawned out of thin air without that breaks immersion when you have chosen a "good" path.

[KalisaFox]

It does feel like the ToA expansion got rushed or something, there just feels like allot of stuff is not quite finished or developed, i wonder if they maybe tried to focus on the gaming/gambling aspect that we never got to see? I love the ToA for allot of things but the protectyon story and mechanics i feel could have used allot more love, also very frusterating that Riptides police their own sectors for what vigor consider illegal, so if u wipe out vigor and stay hated with them, well you cant transport in riptide space vigor illegal goods.

[Crimsonraziel]

i wonder if they maybe tried to focus on the gaming/gambling aspect that we never got to see?

I highly doubt that. It's not their first game, they have been in business for decades. They know the situation with age restrictions. I have a hard time imagining they got caught off guard and had to abandon gambling halfway through.

[KalisaFox]

i wonder if they maybe tried to focus on the gaming/gambling aspect that we never got to see?

I highly doubt that. It's not their first game, they have been in business for decades. They know the situation with age restrictions. I have a hard time imagining they got caught off guard and had to abandon gambling halfway through.

I mean this sounds like this was the plan, when you go into the casino you can even see floating icons from a left over gaming aspect, theres been comments by others that have stated they had planned to add gaming and a fake gambling aspect to ToA but their investors said no, they have done gambling and other types of mini games in their past games in the series, but this time they have their hands tied alittle more due to investors.

[Crimsonraziel]

[...] they have done gambling and other types of mini games in their past games in the series, [...]

Gambling in previous installments? I must have missed that entirely.

[KalisaFox]

[...] they have done gambling and other types of mini games in their past games in the series, [...]

Gambling in previous installments? I must have missed that entirely.

a good example is the stock market in x3, its basic but is effectivly gambling with the way it functions in the game, such a system in the game today could easily fall under gambling, there was also the lotto in x3, full on gambling, and blackjack.

I think we were suppose to get a card game in the casino here (based on what i have read elsewhere, and the files/icons in game) and some other games at the casino, perhaps im wrong here but it does seem like it was planned, but then pulled.

[Crimsonraziel]

a good example is the stock market in x3, its basic but is effectivly gambling with the way it functions in the game, such a system in the game today could easily fall under gambling,

Nope, this is not gambling. It's "simulated" based on RNG because there is no actual stock market, but that is as much gambling as drop luck.

there was also the lotto in x3, full on gambling, and blackjack.

So, apparently I did miss that despite spending more than 2000h in the game.

[KalisaFox]

a good example is the stock market in x3, its basic but is effectivly gambling with the way it functions in the game, such a system in the game today could easily fall under gambling,

Nope, this is not gambling. It's "simulated" based on RNG because there is no actual stock market, but that is as much gambling as drop luck.

there was also the lotto in x3, full on gambling, and blackjack.

So, apparently I did miss that despite spending more than 2000h in the game.

Stocks themselves irl dont fall under gambling, there are similaritie but theres distinct differences, in a game like this they could be seen as gambling though, since its a pure luck game, put money on X, hope it goes up to take more money out, with it not being attached to anything really in the game since X3's economy was fake. you could spike this or drop it temporarly if u really wanted to abuse things but it would correct itself rather quick, In stocks you own a portion of said company, in the "stocks" in x3, it was just a mini game to earn money, that could pay out or not. your putting bets for the rng dice to go up or down on. its just the odds were allot more in the players favor, with the added effect of having some control if u wanted to lean in on that, with intentional market manipulation. but for most people, it was put money on option 1, hope option 1 goes up to sell, take winnings, put more on another random option, allot of the companies goods were rng fluctiatons, and if u read allot of posts, was just gambling, stupid easy gambling, but gambling.

we actually have a simple form of gambling in the game already with terraforming as well, the 10% payout chance terraforming project, no skill involved, pure chance, but it really depends on the countrys laws and what the investors are okay with.

[Crimsonraziel]

we actually have a simple form of gambling in the game already with terraforming as well, the 10% payout chance terraforming project, no skill involved, pure chance, but it really depends on the countrys laws and what the investors are okay with.

Tell me one country this would fall under the gambling law.

[KalisaFox]

we actually have a simple form of gambling in the game already with terraforming as well, the 10% payout chance terraforming project, no skill involved, pure chance, but it really depends on the countrys laws and what the investors are okay with.

Tell me one country this would fall under the gambling law.

Not sure what any of this has to do with gambling law, also most countries have very narrow definition at this point for what constitites "gambling" in gaming, in fact most countries untill recently had a pretty hands off approach to this stuff for gaming and let them police themselves (ESRB/PEGI), even x3, where it clearly has gambling elements would not be seen as illegal but is now beyond the scope of what x4 is willing to do, so law is not the reason for it not being here, im sure many would consider loot boxes gambling but until afew years ago no country also seen that as gambling, the reason this game has limited forms is because of the investors of the game and the team wanting to keep a specific age rating (which is odd cause X4 gets the teen rating anyway with esrb, which covers simulated gambling, perhaps its slightly different in europe? probably different pegi raiting, but the terraform project that lets you put a small amount of credits down for a 10% chance of a large payout does fall well within many definitions of gambling, but probably was seen as acceptable to the investors and the age definition.

Edit: also when i said depends on the countrys laws, it was more of a general broad term for distrubtion and what some countries would be okay with, certain things that could change the rating in certain countries perhaps, im sure many countries would consider the mechanics behind that terraforming mission to fall within simulated gambling if they examined it further, but the rating should already cover that, im not familear with every countries laws in what would be fine or not for different restrictions.

Edit 2: seems simulated gambling for pegi now puts the game at an 18+ thats probably it then, with people being more focused on these elements, and for some reason the terraforming mission does not fall in pegi's definition of simulated gambling. also having done further research, even x3 does not have simulated gambling in its rating definition, even though they clearly had a lotto and other forms, so seems its more likely the investors keeping things limited in this regard and them just not risking a higher rating, a casino would probably be pushing it.

[Alan Phipps]

Please get back onto thread topic (protectyon supply) you two. You can discuss national gambling laws in Off Topic if you wish.

[NBCDumb]

It does feel like the ToA expansion got rushed or something, there just feels like allot of stuff is not quite finished or developed, i wonder if they maybe tried to focus on the gaming/gambling aspect that we never got to see? I love the ToA for allot of things but the protectyon story and mechanics i feel could have used allot more love, also very frusterating that Riptides police their own sectors for what vigor consider illegal, so if u wipe out vigor and stay hated with them, well you cant transport in riptide space vigor illegal goods.

Yup, got hit by this too... I created a full on food+medicines station in Avarice I, pushed away VIG to the sector with the warf and shipyard which is the last sector they own, the only VIG ships I let enter RIP space is their miners, yet my own miner often drops its cargo because it was "asked by police" to do so, no ship around, police or not and it does not seem I can tell my miner to ignore police telling them to drop their cargo :-/
Just because of this I have to rebuild the station outside of Avarice, in The Hoard which I now own.

[KalisaFox]

It does feel like the ToA expansion got rushed or something, there just feels like allot of stuff is not quite finished or developed, i wonder if they maybe tried to focus on the gaming/gambling aspect that we never got to see? I love the ToA for allot of things but the protectyon story and mechanics i feel could have used allot more love, also very frusterating that Riptides police their own sectors for what vigor consider illegal, so if u wipe out vigor and stay hated with them, well you cant transport in riptide space vigor illegal goods.

Yup, got hit by this too... I created a full on food+medicines station in Avarice I, pushed away VIG to the sector with the warf and shipyard which is the last sector they own, the only VIG ships I let enter RIP space is their miners, yet my own miner often drops its cargo because it was "asked by police" to do so, no ship around, police or not and it does not seem I can tell my miner to ignore police telling them to drop their cargo :-/
Just because of this I have to rebuild the station outside of Avarice, in The Hoard which I now own.

in my current game im trying a different method of slowly taking riptide space directly over (so as my rep gets high enough i take out their admin modules in a sector i have a contested claim on) hoping this will at least make it a non issue going forward but will see, just hope they will still offer station build missions if i own their space.

[NBCDumb]

It does feel like the ToA expansion got rushed or something, there just feels like allot of stuff is not quite finished or developed, i wonder if they maybe tried to focus on the gaming/gambling aspect that we never got to see? I love the ToA for allot of things but the protectyon story and mechanics i feel could have used allot more love, also very frusterating that Riptides police their own sectors for what vigor consider illegal, so if u wipe out vigor and stay hated with them, well you cant transport in riptide space vigor illegal goods.

Yup, got hit by this too... I created a full on food+medicines station in Avarice I, pushed away VIG to the sector with the warf and shipyard which is the last sector they own, the only VIG ships I let enter RIP space is their miners, yet my own miner often drops its cargo because it was "asked by police" to do so, no ship around, police or not and it does not seem I can tell my miner to ignore police telling them to drop their cargo :-/
Just because of this I have to rebuild the station outside of Avarice, in The Hoard which I now own.

in my current game im trying a different method of slowly taking riptide space directly over (so as my rep gets high enough i take out their admin modules in a sector i have a contested claim on) hoping this will at least make it a non issue going forward but will see, just hope they will still offer station build missions if i own their space.

I'm not planning on being at peace against them again soon. They have yummy Barbarrossa "free to claim" which are the backbone of my fleet and make strong traders and my manticores love their S ships... ^^