[1600]5.0 Beta 2 BUG - My own stations seem to be paying each other for goods - Improvement in a build after b6 HF1.

[atsmith66]

• I have a set of stations in Argon prime.
• Some process raw into base materials, and sell that to own faction only.
• Others by these materials (from own faction only) and then sell their finished products to a trading station.
• The trading station is the ONLY station authorised to sell to anyone.

I loaded the game and noticed that my station accounts were all dropping to zero. On inspection I found that my stations are now paying money to EACH OTHER to buy raw materials. This means I can't really set up production chains where station A makes raw materials, station B uses those and moves output to station C for general trading.

You can look for yourself in this save game downloadable here.

Have a good one

[atsmith66]

I have done some additional testing with the following observations:

• In the above attached save game I built 10 mercury vanguards and assigned them to auto-trade for the station marked "Factory: Microchips, Quantum T., Plasma C."
• I give the station credits (eg. 500k)
• The station uses those credits to buy from my OWN FACTION until it reaches zero.
• The station does not sell it's own wares to the trading station despite selling for minimum prices, and the trading station offering maximum prices.
• Once the station's credits drop to zero, all assigned traders simply get stuck in a waiting for trades state. Nothing happens anymore. In this example I have 10 Mercuries set as station traders and that station's wares are at a very high volume.

[Mysterial]

It's not a bug for player stations to pay each other. Otherwise stations that buy from outside and sell to other player stations run out of money. It's also just more consistent in setup.

[Miravlix]

It's not a bug for player stations to pay each other. Otherwise stations that buy from outside and sell to other player stations run out of money. It's also just more consistent in setup.

Since it isn't mentioned in the 5.0 patch notes, it seems reasonable to consider it a bug when something like this change.

The game has up until 5.00 always used free trade among own stations, but hey now MegaComplex and multi station is equally broken, so I guess that is an improvement that everything is broken now.

Requiring money on internally trading stations is a nightmare, all my stations keep being short on money. Where before I just needed a few creds (I use 1 million) and I don't have to micromanage.

[atsmith66]

It's not a bug for player stations to pay each other. Otherwise stations that buy from outside and sell to other player stations run out of money. It's also just more consistent in setup.

Since it isn't mentioned in the 5.0 patch notes, it seems reasonable to consider it a bug when something like this change.

The game has up until 5.00 always used free trade among own stations, but hey now MegaComplex and multi station is equally broken, so I guess that is an improvement that everything is broken now.

Requiring money on internally trading stations is a nightmare, all my stations keep being short on money. Where before I just needed a few creds (I use 1 million) and I don't have to micromanage.

I agree with Miravlix on both points. The main reason I don't like the new behaviour in 5.0 Beta 2 is that it introduces the need to constantly micro-manage ALL stations. With the behaviour in 4.2 where there is "free" trade between your own stations you can setup supply chains starting at mining stations and ending at a trade hub. You can periodically check the input / output balances by glancing at the stations ware levels. And as for the profits you can then have this trade hub as a single point of collection instead of having to collect little bits from each station over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ...

One of the most rewarding things to build in X4 is a series of stations, each with their own purpose and subordinates and then configure everything such that you have a whole system of supply and manufacturing all resulting in a well stocked trading station that supplies the surrounding systems as one big well oiled machine. Getting that well oiled machine balanced and self sustaining in hugely satisfying!

[dmk]

i should point out that for me was surprise in 4.2 that station does not use money for trading,
so in some situation (where station does buy some resources from npc, but sells product only for your stations)
is is needed to use money for trading(otherwise station would be run out of money without any reason),
but in other situation is not, so option in station overview is needed,
and trade (instead of transfer) order which directly ordered by player should also always use money for trading,
and probably repeat orders should give that option too (use money or not for player's stations)

[Keriken AshtarCorp]

Same Problems here,

my Shipyard lose all time the investment money, all time i need give back there by me i was think how happend that?

Thank for you Post them know i see what happend.



Same Problem is it, my Shipyard dont earn more money. other Faction to stop buy more ship at my Stations too..

[Pejot]

I like the thing in general but we should get a checkbox or setting to lock the budget (auto refill) in choosen stations (turned on as default)

[Keriken AshtarCorp]

I like the thing in general but we should get a checkbox or setting to lock the budget (auto refill) in choosen stations (turned on as default)

I'm of the opinion that it makes no real sense that the own stations pay each other.

It would only make sense if the workers would also be paid and there would not only be military merchandise but also goods that are necessary to keep workers alive, i.e. a real economic system alongside the military.

[cheef.che]

I have done some additional testing with the following observations:

• In the above attached save game I built 10 mercury vanguards and assigned them to auto-trade for the station marked "Factory: Microchips, Quantum T., Plasma C."
• I give the station credits (eg. 500k)
• The station uses those credits to buy from my OWN FACTION until it reaches zero.
• The station does not sell it's own wares to the trading station despite selling for minimum prices, and the trading station offering maximum prices.
• Once the station's credits drop to zero, all assigned traders simply get stuck in a waiting for trades state. Nothing happens anymore. In this example I have 10 Mercuries set as station traders and that station's wares are at a very high volume.

I think it's correct behavior, except the thing that manager is so stupid to focus on buying instead of selling. I've managing this by manually setup how much I want to buy and how much I want to sell.

If your own stations not paying for anything to each other then it's hard to track really what's going on, how much goods was delivered and sold (no record in transactions tab). Also sometimes I have to temporary buy raw resources from the NPC and don't want to add money to this station manually. Finally your raw resources station making money, your goods station also making money, the only thing you need to setup is trading station to sell goods as much as possible. Probably it will work fine with fleet of Advanced Traders which not attached to your station.

[oddgit]

Hi, i have a trade station set up with a black list of only my faction, and the two trade ships attached to it also have a similar only me command. I put money into the station to make sure my ships see it, 1million credits, but the credits keep disappearing. The trade goods for drones are all stocked up. Its only stocking terran station components. I am going to try to track where the traders are going to see if the black lists are not functioning as intended.

[oddgit]

I can confirm that Traders spend station money to buy from my internal stations.

[Pejot]

I like the thing in general but we should get a checkbox or setting to lock the budget (auto refill) in choosen stations (turned on as default)

I'm of the opinion that it makes no real sense that the own stations pay each other.

It would only make sense if the workers would also be paid and there would not only be military merchandise but also goods that are necessary to keep workers alive, i.e. a real economic system alongside the military.

It makes sense in one way. If You deliver stuff from stations with low budget to stations with enormous budget (shipyard) You get money to Your account faster without manual transfer.

[Jar B]

I've searched the published changelog for a correlating item but couldn't find any except for

[Beta 2] Fixed tugs working for stations requiring their stations to have funds (new feature in 5.00).

That gives me hope your bug may actually be considered as such by Egosoft and the final release of 5.0 wont force us to maintain a healthy credit balance in our closed factory loops. In case this behaviour will go final, is there a way to pin my game to 4.20 with Steam? I find the current level of micro managent necessary to maintain my game borderline overwhelming. Any increase might break it for me.

[atsmith66]

I have stopped playing. The new level of micromanagement simply isn't fun at all.

Waiting for a patch to see what they do with this.

[oddgit]

I dont mind my internal stations and trade ships(set to only buy and sell from me) needing some money, would often give them 1 million or something, so traders see them and they can buy stuff, but to keep having to visit my stations to make sure they have enough of my money to use my money to buy stuff from me would a bit too much to handle. Not all of my stations sell their leftover intermediates to the general public.

[EGO_Aut]

That's fine, the way the tax office wants it.

[xant]

I was so happy when stations wouldn't need money anymore for internal trade. For the first time in years all of my stations worked without any problems. I just don't have too much money lying around, I use it to buy things (like blueprints), so I often end up with stations, but no money.

And now we're needing it again for internal trade? I have to dump millions of Cr into station accounts again, so that my ships can do basic internal logistics?

This is hopefully a bug, otherwise my whole economy is ruined. Not only that, but the level of micromanagement required would have a serious negative impact on my fun.

[FatalKeks]

I have mixed feelings about this. I think if we keep it this way, we also need an "Auto-Refill-Funds"-Feature for our stations, when they are low on money.

[Jar B]

I have mixed feelings about this. I think if we keep it this way, we also need an "Auto-Refill-Funds"-Feature for our stations, when they are low on money.

A budget range? Excellent idea! +1