Please don't make XOU simple

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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P88
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Post by P88 » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 00:13

--------universe 1-------

mum: "i think i'll buy pacman for our son/daughter.."
dad: "naa dont bother, it will be too hard for him..."

-----universe 2------

mum: "i think i'll buy pacman for our son/daughter.."
dad: "take 2.."

y'see with microsoft its all to do with money, the more people who buy the game (kids...), the more ££$$££$$ they get! :roll: not like they have enough already....

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terrabyte
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Post by terrabyte » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 00:14

pjknibbs wrote:This person was a spokesperson for the XBox Advanced Technology Group, which would be Microsoft, right? Now, if they seriously think that over-simplified bags of washing like Freelancer and Dungeon Siege are STILL too difficult, they must assume that nobody over the age of 7 ever buys a game...
On the nail as usual Paul :thumb_up:

The only one's who an afford XBox games are a lot older than 7 years, which is a bit patonising to say they can't play 'difficult games', a bit of a own goal for their market.
"I've seen things, you people wouldn't believe, hmmm."

Who am I :?: , I am but the sum of my experiences… and today I am more than I was yesterday. :goner:

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Faze
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Post by Faze » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 00:27

terrabyte wrote:The only one's who can afford XBox games are a lot older than 7 years, which is a bit patonising to say they can't play 'difficult games', a bit of a own goal for their market.
"If the market reads the statement.

;p
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Oldman
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Post by Oldman » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 00:30

silentWitness wrote:Take anything out of context and you can change the meaning completely!

Observe:
"When people talk about 'it's only a game', they're cheapening the value of games. It trivialises the time people spend playing a game and time is the most precious thing people have."

Yep, broadly speaking, I agree :)
The blunt message was delivered by Laura Fryer, director of the Xbox Advanced Technology Group, to a meeting of game developers in London.

I'm starting to get suspicious... :wink:
She told her audience that games had the potential to change people's lives, offering them the chance to experience a wide range of emotions in a safe environment.

True...so very true.
Although games are growing in popularity, they are still lagging behind TV, films and music. Ms Fryer laid the blame for this on the people making the games...

Hang on a minute.... :o that's not very nice!...and I don't agree!
There are other factors involved in this....
"Games are still too difficult for a mass audience," and urged game makers to come up with titles that would appeal to a hardcore 15-year-old gamer as well as someone older..

Oh yeah?....how MUCH older?
... who just wants to have fun. "People don't focus on gameplay. Instead they make a beautiful game that is no fun." she told the Game Developers Conference, held at London's Earls Court last week.

Which people?

[qoute]
As a self-confessed avid gamer herself, Ms Fryer sees real value in video games,...

Yes, I bet :wink:
...arguing they have a key role to play in people's lives. "People need drama in their lives. Games fulfil emotional and mental needs that cannot be fulfilled any other way," she explained.

Arguable point
The Xbox executive said video games offered people a chance to flex their mental muscles, as many titles involved planning, strategy and decision-making. "When you make choices, it reveals something about yourself. People reveal who they really are when they can try things in a safe environment."

That's twice the Xbox has been mentioned...I thought this talk was about games? :D
The Game Developers Conference was held last week as part of London Games Week, which brought together a range of industry and consumer events around the capital.
Oldman :)

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terrabyte
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Post by terrabyte » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 00:38

Oldman wrote:That's twice the Xbox has been mentioned...I thought this talk was about games? :D
Xbox = games ? thats a sum that does not add up :D :lol:
"I've seen things, you people wouldn't believe, hmmm."

Who am I :?: , I am but the sum of my experiences… and today I am more than I was yesterday. :goner:

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GoateeCat
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Post by GoateeCat » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 01:21

I think you need to look at why this person would say anything at all. She will say whatever she thinks will increase her companies audience and therefore their profits. They need to sell more games and overcome what hurdles lay in the way in the short and long term.

The long term obstacle is societies pre/misconceptions about games. Wear away resistance to the product and future gorowth is assured. For the older gamer like myself this means that I receive less derision from other adults (like I could care anyway) and for kids it means more games from your parents.

For the short term, they make games easier to play to increase market share of the immense 15 year old demographic. As an older gamer I lose out because I want depth in my gaming.

Then there is the usual issue of Microsofts delivery, talking as if it is a leader in what is best for the industry when really it talks for what is best for Microsoft. There are good and bad points to what she says and you have to get past your own preconceptions about MS and pride in your own opinion to really examine the meat of what she says. Even though its mostly mutton and spam :)

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Post by GnatB » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 04:08

1. Difficult != depth.

Anyone hear believe that X-T (and XBTF) is actually *difficult*? Nope. I certainly don't. Anyone believe that they are deep and great games? Yep. Me too. I think they're a great example of what she's talking about...

(and the reference "People don't focus on gameplay. Instead they make a beautiful game that is no fun." would have to be applying to the game developers/publishers. They're the only ones making games...)

Also, I'd point out, SHE never mentioned XBox. The person who wrote the story used it to describe who the person speaking is. If it had been talking about Miyamoto or whoever his name is, I'm sure it would have dropped the word Nintendo a few times too.

KiwiNZ
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Post by KiwiNZ » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 04:35

Initially I thought she was refering to awkward more than difficult but soon I noticed she really did mean difficult. Well, as PJK mentioned ....

I believe, however, that this 'difficulty' of gameplay really is one of the major reasons why FPS's are so popular. It is so simple to apply a level that challenges but does not frustrate. But how are you going to implement this in all the games? and games like X? I think Wingcommander or X-Wing had one or two excursions in this direction and people were screaming because it ended up being either too simple or near impossible.

What are we going to change in X? Do we have players face MORE enemies when playing in a higer level? Or are we going to see enemies that are not even smart enough to hit the Autopilot button?

It is almost like discussion Freud's theories ... purely philosophical :D

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GoateeCat
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Post by GoateeCat » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 04:56

GnatB wrote:1. Difficult != depth.

Anyone hear believe that X-T (and XBTF) is actually *difficult*? Nope. I certainly don't. Anyone believe that they are deep and great games? Yep. Me too. I think they're a great example of what she's talking about...
You forget that for many people, modded versions of XT that were more difficult were needed to maintain interest. Perhaps 'depth' is the wrong word, would 'challenge' be more appropriate?

I will agree that difficulty added as purely that adds nothing but filler to a game. X2 difficulty will come from the gameplay complexity which is much more intellectually stimulating and deep than solving yet another damn jumping puzzle.
Also, I'd point out, SHE never mentioned XBox. The person who wrote the story used it to describe who the person speaking is. If it had been talking about Miyamoto or whoever his name is, I'm sure it would have dropped the word Nintendo a few times too.
But it is important to know where she is coming from in order to gauge the authenticity, motivation and interest of her comment.

Hypothetical Example.

Someone says Linux is a superior OS to Windows = Big Deal, so does every other Linux fanboy on the net.

+

That person works for Microsoft = Very interesting indeed.

+

That person is Bill Gates = Holy sucking fhit Batman!!!

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Post by pjknibbs » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 07:36

GnatB wrote:IMO Dungeon Seige, for instance, did a *LOT* of things right.... about the only thing it really failed in, IMO, is having an actual game... and lackluster character development (by which I mean stats/skills, not plot development) The engine/controls itself I thought were fantastic. Some of the other ideas, (partly consume potions, packmule, etc.) also were a definite step in the direction of making a game more "fun".
A few things were OK, but I hated the simplistic skill system--I much preferred the richer and more varied characters you can get in Diablo 2. I also thought, after some experimentation, that the MULTIPLAYER game had the potential to be a lot more fun than the single player game, even when played solo; trouble is, they messed up big time on the multiplayer implementation (e.g. the game didn't even remember which teleporters you'd activated from one game to the next, so you had to fight your way all the way from town each time--that was the very definition of your "pointlessly frustrating").

And don't even get me started on I-War 2...

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Post by Al » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 11:22

Lets face it the fun in playing in the X universe is that its a challenge. Building an empire whether its done via capturing or by trading takes time, patience, skill and thought. thats why we play them and it sits not for those with a low attention span......who cares! We wont be harassed by people claiming its too hard and due to their short attention span they will have forgotten about it as soon as they've found something else. Everyones a winner :p

Al
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StormDragoness
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Post by StormDragoness » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 13:55

The day X becomes simple is the day Egosoft declares bankrupt..

pardon my language but "NO * WAY!"
* insert favorite swear word here.

The game is simple enough as it is already.. if you dont like a feature dont use it you can still make it through the game.. well.. unless weapons and shields goes under too difficult.

GnatB
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Post by GnatB » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 16:13

pjknibbs wrote:
GnatB wrote:IMO Dungeon Seige, for instance, did a *LOT* of things right.... about the only thing it really failed in, IMO, is having an actual game... and lackluster character development (by which I mean stats/skills, not plot development) The engine/controls itself I thought were fantastic. Some of the other ideas, (partly consume potions, packmule, etc.) also were a definite step in the direction of making a game more "fun".
A few things were OK, but I hated the simplistic skill system--I much preferred the richer and more varied characters you can get in Diablo 2. I also thought, after some experimentation, that the MULTIPLAYER game had the potential to be a lot more fun than the single player game, even when played solo; trouble is, they messed up big time on the multiplayer implementation (e.g. the game didn't even remember which teleporters you'd activated from one game to the next, so you had to fight your way all the way from town each time--that was the very definition of your "pointlessly frustrating").

And don't even get me started on I-War 2...
Funny you mention that... I never actually played through the SP campaign in Dungeon Seige... started it, got a bit beyond the first town, and never really "got into the game"... however, at work, about 8 or so of us on and off played our way through the MP campaign.... now granted, problem with MP is it was sorta like Diablo... only worse. It didn't save the game state, but rather just the state of your character... however the town you could start off in corresponded to your level, and... at least in our experience, you tended to actually get high enough level to start at the next town before you even got there via walking, so in our experience, there wasn't that much "frustration factor"... But yeah, the skill system blew. (Incidentally, I typically was playing as our groups healer... which was completely broken... I'd spend all my mana keeping everybody alive, quaffing potions like a madman, and get jack squat for experience... healing/buffing gave almost no exp...)

duriel
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Post by duriel » Wed, 3. Sep 03, 19:35

In my opinion dungeon seige just lacked a game. I played it all the way through and then a bit on multiplayer.

As i've already played it all the way through there is nothing for me to do in the game. There is no variety in the game and it's so linear it's stupid.

Most games i tend to play aren't linear and allow for a wider variety in gameplay than i found with DS. To be honest i'm annoyed i even bothered to buy the game. Then again i bought the pc version of the Fellowship of the rings game which is even more linear and took just over a day to finish.

The only linear game i've played for any length of time was diablo2 and that was because of all the characters/skills and items to find which made playing it through again and again fun.

Games that have more than one way to achieve an objective are always good. Like in XT you can either trade, build factories, capture ships or just be apirate and destroy ships and sell the goods adn missiles to make money. It allows for alot of styles of play which is why it works as a game.

Neil

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