[X3AP] Stopping my traders from selling my own goods back to myself...

[Le Boron Chétif]

One part of my M2's is just collector/roleplaying stuff - one model from each race (as well as very single fully loaded M1's, M7's and M6's) protecting my HQ on Earth orbit (where once in a while a Terran passenger shuttle shows up threateningly), and then one per sector where I have a complex. But the bulk of my M2's I use as patrols in risky sectors my MK3's visit but that I consider good enough for business, e.g. Blackhole Sun, Getsu Fune etc... It stems from my initial aspiration never to have to replace or repair a trader ever again (which I initially tried to materialise by building my trading fleet solely with Springblossoms but ended up not being good enough on its own).

Besides, I rapidly figured that a single M2 wasn't enough to face a K or Brigantine with escort on its own and stay intact, not to mention the max shielding needed even against petty Q's. So I went with a pair of M2's for every 'risky' sector, each made of a Tyr protecting a Megalodon (being the slowest one). I'd have gone with Tyrs only if it wasn't for Earth weapon scarcity... In the end, I do have to repair one of them once in a while, but it does go a long way towards making my traders safe. Can't recall the last time I'd have lost one if it wasn't for some last minute manual intervention..

Now, I know I could have simply garnished all the risky sector jump gates with dozens of laser towers for the same effect, but it wouldn't feel as good, and would be a lot less versatile too... Wouldn't allow me to try and protect 2 convoys at the same time OOS, which sounds damn exciting... though at Hero rank I don't even know what that'd look like... I might lose half of my hard-earned M2's in one go

@Red Spot : to the Response Aran... that's one you can't call rapid response. Cool idea though!! Have you unleashed it on Xenon sectors with success? My own Aran is nothing more than an extension of my HQ storage capacity, seems I'm missing out..

[jlehtone]

protect 2 convoys at the same time OOS, which sounds damn exciting... though at Hero rank I don't even know what that'd look like... I might lose half of my hard-earned M2's in one go

I know how that looks at Xtreme, so I can recommend a try.


My Aran sits at PHQ too. Never have had time to let engineers at it. No matter, it's an easy goto destination for my MORT/loot collectors.

[Red-Spot]

@Red Spot : to the Response Aran... that's one you can't call rapid response. Cool idea though!! Have you unleashed it on Xenon sectors with success? My own Aran is nothing more than an extension of my HQ storage capacity, seems I'm missing out..

I never said rapid. The Aran is allowing me to jump in a bulk of M8's together and unleash them, has great effect on your FPS though
Bit overkill, like the 'D-Stations' setup I have at the Hub-sector. Trade station in front of each gate, 20 Mamba Vanguards at each, set of (H)Centaurs and 2 Boreas' attached to each and a bunch of (H)Centaurs patrolling the sector.
(And still some pirate M5 slips through every once in a while )

I have sets of E-docks littered at places each with a Mammoth or for fleet actions. My PHQ only has what it needs for building and has so much of it it fills up what the PHQ can have.
Unless you go the OOS-routine I dun think I ever needed more than a single M2 and perhaps M7M for practical purpose, but it is very nice to feel king of your own hill

[Le Boron Chétif]

@jlehtone - gasp, you're scaring me now!

@Red Spot - you seem to be very focused on fleets, which isn't something I've ever looked into. I do have some though, as I've been filling all my M1's with a full set of fighters from the corresponding race, but so far it's only been for display. You seem to use fighters both for sector defence and for invasion - do you lose many of them, and often? How does the whole replacement thing go? I wouldn't mind the extra expenditure, but the tediousness of purchasing and equipping large amounts of ships at once does put me off...

[Red-Spot]

@Red Spot - you seem to be very focused on fleets, which isn't something I've ever looked into. I do have some though, as I've been filling all my M1's with a full set of fighters from the corresponding race, but so far it's only been for display. You seem to use fighters both for sector defence and for invasion - do you lose many of them, and often? How does the whole replacement thing go? I wouldn't mind the extra expenditure, but the tediousness of purchasing and equipping large amounts of ships at once does put me off...

Not really that much. I call it fleet but it is more like a collection of ships. I often use the Griffon as support when using a Boreas as personal defense (I tend to stick to my Eclipse).
Deploying a Colossus is just for the fun and having 2 just means when one is used I have an other ready while the first is restocked.
Deploying 'the Aran' is just for mere sh*ts'n'giggles. It has a few Mistrals docked with LT's and Adv Drones, 12 Vipers and a few H-Centaurs (may replace these later with Hyperions ). And keep the large docking open to be able to quickly mix things up if I desire (take a Boreas to stomp something, Colossus for mere overkill or a Griffon for the fun of it).

The Eclipses I have on the Griffon are regarded like a sort of 'royal guard'. Mamba Vanguards for OOS use since they are easy to replace 10 at a time. Nova Raiders for IS use since they are the fastest M3 with rearturret that can be mass-bought without too much difficulty. Mamba's are bought as L-variants and get 4 more HEPTs which is easy to set up with a carrier (even an Elephant works here). The Argon fighters get bought at S-size, both get a full load of EBCs in the spinal mounts and PRGs in the turrets. Need to bulk up some 25MJ shields for the Nova's, EBC's/PRG's I can get in ample supply from my own hubs and even S-size Eclipses come with a 200MJ shield.
Fighters just get Nav/Spec/Fight I&II/Duplex scanner on them. Its a bit tedious to set up 60 fighters at once to load up a Colossus but that is just the initial thing and I do not use my regular naming on them but quickly tag them 'C-101' / 'C-102' / etc (C = Colossus/Carrier, 1st number = carrier number, last 2 numbers = ship number). My regular naming uses an abstract form of the Roman numerals though (Carriers are; Colossus I & Colossus II, oh how original you say? ).

The eclipses tend to carry themselves surprisingly well in IS combat where they seem to fly like bricks when looking at them. 9 Of them take down a Q before you notice it.
For the rest losses are minor, but I do not just ram 60 fighters into a zone and expect to do well. My Colossi come with a fair amount of Typhoon missiles and all my IS fighters use Wasps and will dispense them regularly which works wonders keeping enemy turrets occupied, not to forget looks awesome when you're part of it yourself
Boreas' all come with 80 Firestorms. Deploy 1 or 2 of those, supported by the Colossi ... not much actually trying to even shoot at my fighters when deployed well timed. Collision makes more kills than the enemy

Am going to set up Panthers with Mamba Vanguards for long range patrols through Pirate Alley and around Hub-sector entrance sectors. Not sure how that would work late game, but having a Tiger on each hub I have no much need for the IBLs I gather form the Yaki/Pirates and do not like M7s in fleet actions as I find them to dangerous (except for the small Griffon). When a Tiger turns it has a tendency to turn its behind right in the path of other stuff and kill itself on a Boreas or knock out fighters. Next to that, IBLs are nice when you do not have PPC's, but by the time you get your hands on ample Boreas' they become somewhat obsolete, imo.

All that said, when I need firepower I tend to first go for a Boreas as it is just easier.

Edit:
For the actual setting up mass bought ships you have 'supply command software'. Just have a fighter lead the rest and tell a ship holding all the weapons/shields/missiles to unload x amount of ware to the leader, it will also unload it at all the followers.
I have not set this up in my current game, in my previous game I had ships collect certain wares for setting up ships. Like an Elephant gathering enough PPC/2 GJ/.. so I can set up 2 Boreas with jumpfuel, missiles and ready to go.
I'll eventually have that going again

When fighters are equipped I add them to a wing using the wing-menu (basically pressing 'enter' 200 times ), set the wing up (homebase, missile %) and again remove them from the wing (pressing 'enter' an other 100 times).
Pressing 'enter' loads of times is not particularly fun but it works much much faster than trying to set ships up individually and when you set up the wing-menu properly it is easy and quickly to do (use the 'hide ship when/not part of wing' option in the wing-menu).

[Le Boron Chétif]

Thanks for the tip regarding the Supply Command Software, I never used that one! I did know about the 'wing in, wing out' config tip, which does help a lot.
So far I was buying fighters in mass and sending them through my usual 'full-on' equipment itinerary : Legend's Home -> Thuruk's Beard -> Ceo's Sprite - Home of Light, till I discovered that some shipyards (unfortunately not all) can allow up a larger number of ships to dock at once, and enable faster equipping. But either way, this is by far the most tedious bit. (Again, I'm way too much of a perfectionist and could easily skip most of that, but I gotta feel that, should worse come to worse, I can switch to any of my other ships and find all the functionalities I need. I just don't buy them all the MK3 software as is costs an arm!)

As for weapons & gear, I just jump them all to my PHQ full of what they need (HEPT, shields and missiles) and fit them in bulk, this is also relatively handy. But whenever you do that for over 10 ships, every little mistake forces you to start over.

I also really like the Griffon, it's a fun ship to play. I (painstakingly) overtuned mine to 220m/s and 7rpm, and it contains 9 self-produced Aamon. Pretty fierce, for its small size. What keeps bothering me is the absence of big guns on it, it's hard to take on an M2 with it unless you spam missiles (what I'd give for 4 IBL or PBC slots!)

Btw, do you have with any mod at all for more challenging enemies? Now that I control most of the galaxy I'm considering increasing the difficulty just so I can continue playing I'm looking into some of them such as Pirate Guild 3, Revelation and Yaki Armada 2... all look great though I'm a total noob so not sure they even work with X3AP. Besides, what I'd really like is to get the Khaaks back in my game, to kick some insectoid ass for a change. Any lead? I might open another thread to get more recommendations on that...

[jlehtone]

Have you seen the Fleet Guide by Black_hole_suN?

The FAQ entry (What equipment do I need for command X?) does list the Supply Command Software, but the FAQ has been harder to find since the Forum update.


S&M questions belong to S&M forum


Kyoto can carry 6 M6/M8/TS. For example, four bombers and two resupply barges. Not quite enough to wipe enemy Capitals and the inevitable RRF from one War Sector, but its a start.

[Red-Spot]

I also really like the Griffon, it's a fun ship to play. I (painstakingly) overtuned mine to 220m/s and 7rpm, and it contains 9 self-produced Aamon. Pretty fierce, for its small size. What keeps bothering me is the absence of big guns on it, it's hard to take on an M2 with it unless you spam missiles (what I'd give for 4 IBL or PBC slots!)

Btw, do you have with any mod at all for more challenging enemies? Now that I control most of the galaxy I'm considering increasing the difficulty just so I can continue playing I'm looking into some of them such as Pirate Guild 3, Revelation and Yaki Armada 2... all look great though I'm a total noob so not sure they even work with X3AP. Besides, what I'd really like is to get the Khaaks back in my game, to kick some insectoid ass for a change. Any lead? I might open another thread to get more recommendations on that...

I honestly love the Griffon cause it is so lacking and still so bloody good. It has difficulty dealing with an M6 by itself but it can dance around an M2 all day with a bit of luck and take away a lot incoming fire for whatever it is supporting. My Griffon is often tailing a Boreas, sometimes I do deploy the fighters in advance sometimes I'll just let 'chance' do it for me. The combo of the 2 with fighters is awesome. Boreas going for target launching Firestorms, Griffon dancing around removing fighters and when under stress deploying fighters that start launching wasps asap.
I've used this setup on some missions (plots, XI) and sometimes deploy 1-3 sets of 30 lasertowers between me and the enemy. Just fun to see how much does not reach my battle-group and how fast what does gets removed

I'm actually on TC and just want to get this empire set up to the max in unmodified way, then move to AP and probably do the same, so I do not have a clue what mods/scripts might be fun enough. Not seeing much use for combat-mission scripts unless they add some flair though. Did a decent bit of scripting in the past am a bit picky on that front to be honest
I for one am glad I am not needing to take on groups of corvette's with an Eclipse or Dragon or even a Tiger and feel the burn of their Kyon's

So far I was buying fighters in mass and sending them through my usual 'full-on' equipment itinerary : Legend's Home -> Thuruk's Beard -> Ceo's Sprite - Home of Light,

I do; Legend's Home, Light of Heart, Home of Light and skip the carrier/explorer command on the smaller stuff. I do buy 10 kestrels at a time and bring them to Legend's Home and Home of Light in dedicated Elephant for equipping large ships where the Elephant comes with whatever is needed to make the big ship ready to fight from shipyard. Most tedious in buying ships are M6/M8's since they are easy to buy in bulk but harder to equip in bulk

[jlehtone]

I'm actually on TC

and when one is focused on TC there is chance that one unintentionally gives TC-specific info even though target is AP. The games are not identical, just deceptively close.

AP has much more (read: slightly less inconvenient) options for setting up a fleet.

Regular Shipyard (SY) has 6 piers for capital ships and 5 external clamps for small ships. All regular SY look the same.
Super SY has internal (infinite) docking for small ships, but less docks for capitals. Supers are race-specific.
Terran SYs ... frankly, I haven't paid them any attention.

AP allows equipping M8/M6 in bulk (at SY).


I have an automated logistics chain for munitions:

Code: Select all

[Forge] --CLS1-> [CHQ] --CLS2-> [storage ships]

Forges deliver their products to company HQ with CLS1 couriers. CHQ has small stocks and one CLS2 hauls wares to large freighters. The CHQ has CAGs too, to buy from NPC Forges and to sell to NPC ED's.

Fleet supply ships load from that storage. That is not automated. For example, I explicitly order M7M squad to refill missiles after a sortie.


I have (AP) Griffon for specific use: it has IonD loadout. If there is a polarized sentry firewall in a boarding target, then the Griffon will zap good.