Random News not worthy of own thread

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Hank001
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Hank001 » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 19:52

felter proclaims:
Granted these two cases they weren't just cheating but selling cheating services. I have absolutely no sympathy for them, I have a passion for hating online cheaters. Single player games are fair game but when you play with others, at least do it from a level playing field.
In the MMO gaming world where with microtransactions turning games into "BUY OR DIE" then it's really not the people looking for a piece of the action that you should hate . (the most at least) It's the game companies for chugging out games that are nothing but cash cows. The venues like Steam and Google Play, etc for creating a place for this to florish in the first place. It's all about old fashion GREED and the player's the sucker, mark, stooge, etc.

That's not a rant, it's just plainly stating the facts of why two signs of deep rot exist to perpetuate this phemonenon. Shipping a product with only enough there to be forced to connect to the internet to download the full game you SHOULD have gotten on the disc in the first place. There's plenty of DRM schema to secure the game without being funneled into a vampire's lair like Steam when what your after is a single player exeperience in the first place!

The next sign is the dearth of said single player experiences because of the above. Its a vicious cycle.

And as far as MMO's and MP's I have little sympathy for people that get their jollies in that environment anyway. The nice guys lose.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Morkonan » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 21:01

felter wrote:
Wed, 17. Oct 18, 19:23
Seems like it's that time of year where they go after the game cheaters, as there has been a couple of those stories happened the last couple of days....
Ya know... It makes one wonder how in the world these companies can produce a game that is supposed to be a "competitive" environment, only to have some pimply-faced kid in a basement sell aimbots for it. How screwed up is their warden/cheat-detector stuff if they can't at least secure the info coming in and going out of the client/game?

Nobody likes cheaters and nobody likes people who sell "Cheats." That's just wrong in too many ways.

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by red assassin » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 21:19

Morkonan wrote:
Wed, 17. Oct 18, 21:01
felter wrote:
Wed, 17. Oct 18, 19:23
Seems like it's that time of year where they go after the game cheaters, as there has been a couple of those stories happened the last couple of days....
Ya know... It makes one wonder how in the world these companies can produce a game that is supposed to be a "competitive" environment, only to have some pimply-faced kid in a basement sell aimbots for it. How screwed up is their warden/cheat-detector stuff if they can't at least secure the info coming in and going out of the client/game?

Nobody likes cheaters and nobody likes people who sell "Cheats." That's just wrong in too many ways.
Anti-cheat stuff is colossally hard because of one simple fact: PCs are not really designed as an end-to-end, verifiably secure platform (and if they were, lots of people would get very upset, because it fundamentally turns your PC into something like an iPhone). As I understand it, modern cheating tools mostly use hypervisors - run the actual OS with the game running in it under a malicious, minimalist hypervisor, whose primary purpose is to find the information of interest in memory, and whose secondary purpose is to lie to all the checks trying to figure out if it's there. It's a hypervisor, so it has complete control over the hardware state under the OS your game actually runs in. There's not fundamentally anything you can do as an anti-cheat tool in that situation in the long run - you're stuck in a compromised environment and you can't trust anything - so it turns into a battle of trying to come up with newer, subtler ways of detecting cheating hypervisors via inconsistencies in their lying to you, while obfuscating those checks enough to stay ahead of the cheat vendors for a little longer. This isn't about pimply faced kids in basements so much as it's about extremely talented reverse engineers with a business opportunity.

There was a talk at Black Hat this year (https://www.reddit.com/r/ReverseEnginee ... purious_a/) by Riot Games' anti-cheat team, who accidentally found an exploitable bug affecting nearly every major operating system kernel due to some obscure misfeatures of x86 while working on anti-cheat tools. This is a hardcore business.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Morkonan » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 21:36

red assassin wrote:
Wed, 17. Oct 18, 21:19
...There was a talk at Black Hat this year (https://www.reddit.com/r/ReverseEnginee ... purious_a/) by Riot Games' anti-cheat team, who accidentally found an exploitable bug affecting nearly every major operating system kernel due to some obscure misfeatures of x86 while working on anti-cheat tools. This is a hardcore business.
From the thred:
0xNemi wrote:...The behavior was exploitable for Windows, Mac OS, Linux, FreeBSD, and other x86 operating systems to achieve a local privilege escalation. That is, you're gaining access from an unprivileged (non-Admin, even sandboxed) usermode application, to kernelmode memory (read, write, and execute). It's a very serious issue...
(Emphasis Mine)

IOW - @$%@$ YO SANDBOX! (This stuff is kinda scary-serious.)

I'm not familiar with any of the newer schemes. My experience with "cheat detectors" basically dealt with Warden programs that monitored for what was then "known signatures" of activity or running operations. Their heuristics were pretty basic, since any overhead was kept as minimal as possible. And, even then, it surely wasn't easy, since these precautions only effected people who were ignorant about how they worked, not the people who were actually feeding themselves by running/selling them.

It has long been said that one of the last things the "WWW" was ever designed to do was to be "secure." So... What would "The Internet" be and what would our experiences of it be if it was designed with the intent to be "secure," if we can even define that? Better? Worse? More useful? Less useful? Inevitability to become unsecure due to our demands and needs?

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by pjknibbs » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 22:10

Morkonan wrote:
Wed, 17. Oct 18, 21:01
How screwed up is their warden/cheat-detector stuff if they can't at least secure the info coming in and going out of the client/game?
How do you distinguish between an aimbot with a small random component (e,g. it won't always shoot at the dead centre of the enemy's head, it'll drift a bit each time) and someone who's just really, really good at the game? The only way you'd be able to do it would be if the aimbot was written so it behaved in an entirely predictable way, and you'd hope the guy who wrote it would be smart enough not to make it do that.

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Morkonan » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 22:31

pjknibbs wrote:
Wed, 17. Oct 18, 22:10
Morkonan wrote:
Wed, 17. Oct 18, 21:01
How screwed up is their warden/cheat-detector stuff if they can't at least secure the info coming in and going out of the client/game?
How do you distinguish between an aimbot with a small random component ....
DO COMPEWTOR!

:)

No, I don't know the answer to your question. And, even if I did, someone would hack past it next week, right? Today's games are a bit more complex, accomodating nearly instant feedback, FPS shooters, high def everything, etc.. I'm sure it's not easy to protect the integrity of such systems. And, even trying to do so is probably pretty expensive. Locking some security guy in a room with a copy of the exploit software and telling him to "fix this" probably costs a lot in psychiatric bills. Well, if they even pay healthcare costs, which they probably don't, 'cause that guy's disposable.

I'm certainly not blaming the IP holder for being violated because of the way they dressed. I suppose it's a bit of frustration. I remember dealing with obvious cheaters in a competitive game and practically ripping my own hair out. (A dangerous proposal, these days, since I don't have that much of it left.) A "rival" team used a map hack that read all our positions on the map, which was critical for our team's success, since we strategized an' everythin'. We tested it in repeated matches, too, doing things that they could only ever know if they used that particular exploit. Yup, they used it. One of them did, anyway, and reported it to fellow teammates. (Later admitted to it to, IIRC, or was banned for it.) When you're spending forty hours a week "competing" in a game, stuff gets serious. I've heard people cry... Actually emotionally distraught. And, of course, there are reports of worse.

The thing is, who are the gamers going to turn to? Who do they expect to turn to? And, if the game developer tells them just how easy it is for people to implement exploits, where is their confidence going to go? I can see why game developers put a lot of effort into this.

Personally, I approve - Find the people that profit from this, monetarily, and charge them. Or, at least subject them to civil charges, whatever the case may be. Discourage exploit creators from creating these things and there would be a lot less of them. BUT, how do you reach across international borders and, if you do, is it even worth doing so?

PS - I'm as overly wordy today as I am, usually. But, I've been up since the wee hours and have had four contractors here today, all talking about different crap, and I'm waiting on "teh gubbermint" to get here, too, so I can bitch at them... or find a solution to the problem at hand. Either way works for me, since I obviously need to get a load of steam off. :) So, apologies and I will try not to extend further replies on this subject if queried or if someone rattles my cage. :)

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by felter » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 00:58

felter wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 19:20
So it looks like Turkey has video and audio evidence showing that Saudi Arabia interrogated and killed Jamal Khashoggi inside their Consulate, well at least that is what they are saying as no one else has seen this evidence. Pressure is being mounted on Saudi as Branson has pulled out of a $1 Billion deal, while other business leaders are pulling out of a conference with the country. It should be interesting to see what the Yanks do, as their current government are kind of relying pretty heavily on Saudi Arabia.
Just a follow up on this. It has just been announced on Saudi Television that Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the Saudi consulate during a fight and that 18 Saudi officials are being held as part of the case. So now it should get really interesting, not that it wasn't already.

No doubts now, the Saudis did kill him.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Hank001 » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 01:06

@ felter:
Expect the Saudi's to say "He started it!". The Trump will say "It's okay because he started a fight." :roll:
Yeah and it took a hit squad to finish it with a bone saw.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by felter » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 01:44

It's not just Trump though. There is this so called convention this coming week, while a lot of people and countries have already pulled out there are more than a few that hadn't because they were saying there was no proof that Saudi Arabia were behind the journalists death, Well now they have admitted it, so what are the likes of Goldman Sachs, Pepsi and EDF going to do now.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Morkonan » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 16:32

"If you don't play, you don't win..."

MegaMillions Lottery Jackpot Climbs to 1.6 BILLION!

That's right, 1.6 billion dollars (USD). With that much money, one could buy a health insurance policy in the U.S.!

So, yeah, I guess I'll play this time. If I win, I'll sponsor a pizza-party for Egosoft, maybe get you guys a nice fruitcake or something... ;)

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Hank001 » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 16:59

@ Morkonan
Hell Bro, with bucks like that (taking it lumpsum the news says after taxes it's 655 million) you could BUY Egosoft! :mrgreen:

(DRM free SP please!... Pretty please.... With sugar on it?)

Be aware the last draws from way back were WILDLY at the far ends of the probability curve and into "clumping" sometimes with as many as 4 numbers with 5 of each other. The random generators they use for the tickets are not really set up to hit that type of wildly off curve number sets. So your best bet is picking the numbers yourself. You know you're close if you get struck by lightning twice, get ran over by a out of control purple cement truck and find the body of Jimmy Hoffa on the way to pick up tickets... :roll:
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Antilogic » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 17:08

Morkonan wrote:
Sat, 20. Oct 18, 16:32
"If you don't play, you don't win..."

MegaMillions Lottery Jackpot Climbs to 1.6 BILLION!

That's right, 1.6 billion dollars (USD). With that much money, one could buy a health insurance policy in the U.S.!

So, yeah, I guess I'll play this time. If I win, I'll sponsor a pizza-party for Egosoft, maybe get you guys a nice fruitcake or something... ;)
The thing that gets me about this, is everyone I know goes for these ones, where they don't normally play the normal lottery.

It's like...Yeah OK wow the jackpot is £35M this time. When it's 5M it's still completely life changing so what's the difference really? Don't get it...

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Hank001 » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 17:23

Antilogic ponders:
It's like...Yeah OK wow the jackpot is £35M this time. When it's 5M it's still completely life changing so what's the difference really? Don't get it...
In early America they called the phenomenon "Gold Fever".
The truth being that the vast majority of those that dropped everything to rush to California, Nevada, Alaska and other then hinterlands ended up paying vastly more than they found and losing everything and in a goodly chunk of them, their lives. The thought of getting very rich with minimal effort strikes the right chord in some. Lottery Fever is the modern version of this and with the risk vs reward is a less risky position and reward monumental... Well that equation is a no-brainer. A shame that the odds of 315 million to one should tell prospective players all they need to know.

Oh and were talking the US lottery and the prize now is >1.2 BILLION USD.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Antilogic » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 17:30

The thing that gets me is the people who don't play it normally who go for this. If you want the get rich quick thing, then still 5M will still change your life. It's just as unlikely, but why restrict yourself? "I want to be super rich enough that I have my own fleet of jets. Just a single personal private jet isn't enough. It's all or nothing!"

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Hank001 » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 17:32

GREED :twisted:
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Antilogic » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 17:32

Point.

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Santi » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 19:13

Antilogic wrote:
Sat, 20. Oct 18, 17:30
The thing that gets me is the people who don't play it normally who go for this. If you want the get rich quick thing, then still 5M will still change your life. It's just as unlikely, but why restrict yourself? "I want to be super rich enough that I have my own fleet of jets. Just a single personal private jet isn't enough. It's all or nothing!"
I am guilty of doing that, simply put, I am not willing to pay £2.50 twice a week over a month in gambling. But when the prize rolls over and over and the excitement goes up over a huge jackpot, and everyone is excited about a huge prize, I am more than happy to participate on it. Just dreaming you know.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Antilogic » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 19:28

Santi wrote:
Sat, 20. Oct 18, 19:13
Antilogic wrote:
Sat, 20. Oct 18, 17:30
The thing that gets me is the people who don't play it normally who go for this. If you want the get rich quick thing, then still 5M will still change your life. It's just as unlikely, but why restrict yourself? "I want to be super rich enough that I have my own fleet of jets. Just a single personal private jet isn't enough. It's all or nothing!"
I am guilty of doing that, simply put, I am not willing to pay £2.50 twice a week over a month in gambling. But when the prize rolls over and over and the excitement goes up over a huge jackpot, and everyone is excited about a huge prize, I am more than happy to participate on it. Just dreaming you know.
So, more about getting in on the excitement and taking part socially with everyone around you, rather than the actual hopes of the win/thinking you might actually win. I can understand that.

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Santi » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 19:59

That is the gist of it for some people, like me, that either work together or are close friends.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by pjknibbs » Sat, 20. Oct 18, 20:48

Hank001 wrote:
Sat, 20. Oct 18, 16:59
@ Morkonan
Hell Bro, with bucks like that (taking it lumpsum the news says after taxes it's 655 million) you could BUY Egosoft! :mrgreen:
Might not be such a great idea to do that...as the old joke says, "How do you make a small fortune writing computer software? Start with a large one." :D

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