Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

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Gavrushka
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Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Thu, 26. Nov 20, 23:28

... And would be most appreciative if someone will check the spec, and make sure I've not screwed up.

I've opted for a Sharkoon M25W case, mainly because it looks aesthetically pleasing without costing too much.

Anyhow, the spec:

CPU: I7 10700K with Coolermaster Masterliquid Lite 240mm cooler. (Note I'm not overclocking the CPU.)

MoBo: ASUS TUF Gaming B460 Plus.

RAM... Now here's the issue. I wanted to get 32GB DDR4 Corsair RGB Pro (3600) or a similar Adata, but both are listed as 'overclocked' - I remember someone saying if the RAM was capable of running faster, it'd be sold as such, but almost all 'decent' options available have 'overclocked' against them. Am I misreading the meaning here?

Storage: 1 TB M2 ADATA + 960GB SSD (also ADATA) - I don't see the need for a mechanical drive internally, and I think that 2TB is more than I'm ever going to need fast access to.

PSU: - I've had issues in the past with PSU failures, so I was going for a 1000 watt Corsair Gold to make sure there was plenty of headroom.

Now the graphics card is bugging me a lot... I currently game in HD, but I've a good UHD TV suitable for gaming too... I think I'm going for a RTX 3070, which is similar in performance to the RTX2080, but the RTX 3080 does look pretty neat too... Only thing that bugs me about it seems like overkill, and uses almost 50% more power that the 3070.

I'm intending to buy from Palicomp (they supplied my current PC, and I trust them) and it seems to work out as quite reasonably priced.

I'll be maxing out the case with fans, and paying extra for the cabling to be bundled neatly to improve airflow. Oh, and I'm having a 4xUSB 3.0 card installed as I never seem to have enough.

Is there any element I've messed up, or should this system be pretty balanced?
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 26. Nov 20, 23:35

Corsair is a good brand and their warranty service is top notch. I wouldn't get excited about anything being labeled as "over clocked" from them. The BIOS should pick up the RAM timings and clock speed automagically, but if it doesn't set it manually to the design specs and you'll be fine. Just make sure the model of RAM is on ASUS's QVL for that mobo and you'll be all set.
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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by pjknibbs » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 07:18

Well, personally I think you've messed up going Intel rather than AMD, but I seem to recall you having some beef against AMD, so won't hold it against you this time. :)

Also, would it be possible to just get a single 2Tb SSD rather than the two you're planning? Seems like a bit of a waste to have two like that, unless going that way is significantly cheaper than the alternative.

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 08:16

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Thu, 26. Nov 20, 23:35
Corsair is a good brand and their warranty service is top notch. I wouldn't get excited about anything being labeled as "over clocked" from them. The BIOS should pick up the RAM timings and clock speed automagically, but if it doesn't set it manually to the design specs and you'll be fine. Just make sure the model of RAM is on ASUS's QVL for that mobo and you'll be all set.
Yeah, from the product description, it did appear it was manufacturer overclocked and came with a lifetime warranty. - The system is built and tested for me, and I've paid extra for 'performance tweaks' (whatever that means) so it should all come working at the speeds suggested.
pjknibbs wrote:Well, personally I think you've messed up going Intel rather than AMD, but I seem to recall you having some beef against AMD, so won't hold it against you this time. :)

Also, would it be possible to just get a single 2Tb SSD rather than the two you're planning? Seems like a bit of a waste to have two like that, unless going that way is significantly cheaper than the alternative.
I did look at an AMD system, and that's mainly because of your words on an earlier thread, but the slightly better 5800x was more money, although I did like the much lower power consumption. I guess I've had such a ridiculously long history with Intel, going back well into the pre-Pentium days, it's hard to swap now. - My one attempt ended in a CPU failure (Athlon X4)

I would have *loved* a 2gb m2 drive, but they are just so damned expensive. If I read it right, an M2 interface works far, far faster than a SSD without, so a standard 2gb SSD would've meant a performance hit.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Tycow » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 17:52

Gav, I've literally installed a 3070 into my PC today, and I too play on a 4K TV.

I can't speak for things like Cyberpunk (as it's not out yet) but it seems plenty powerful for gaming at 1440 on ultra settings, which I find more than enough. I tried to get a 3080 but missed out (they were on sale for about 40 seconds before they went out of stock, and this was the first stock drop in 4 weeks!)

Personally, if I had the choice I'd go 3080 because I like overkill, but having tried the 3070 for all of 2-3 hours I'm not sure I would have needed it! :D

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 18:46

Gavrushka wrote:
Fri, 27. Nov 20, 08:16
If I read it right, an M2 interface works far, far faster than a SSD without.
The M.2 is a physical connector. Some sneaky engineers did decide to dual-purpose it.

There are SATA M.2 SSD drives that are no faster than any other SATA SSD. All those use the AHCI.

There are NVMe M.2 SSD drives that are connected directly with PCIe (and use NVMe that is different from AHCI).
Some motherboards did connect just x2 PCIe (two lanes) to a M.2. Others do use x4 PCIe (four lanes).
Latest generation (AMD?) have x4 PCIe gen 4.0, while most boards have still gen 3.0.

ADATA has both PCIe and SATA M.2 drives.

Many motherboards have a M.2 connector wired to both PCIe and SATA controller.
You can plug in a SATA SSD that has M.2 connector or a NVMe SSD. The board will auto-detect.
In both cases some of the traditional SATA connectors might be disabled.
The manual of TUF B460-plus wrote:* M.2_1 slot (supports PCIe 3.0 x4 & SATA modes)
* M.2_2 slot (supports PCIe 3.0 x4 mode)
* M.2_1 shares bandwidth with SATA6G_1. When M.2_1 runs in SATA mode, SATA6G_1 will be disabled.
I did get the impression that AMD has now, for couple CPU generations, had x4 PCIe lanes on the CPU that boards wire to a M.2. One M.2 NVMe drive can thus be directly connected to the CPU (just like the GPU, for which both brands tend to have 16 lanes).

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 22:32

Tycow wrote:
Fri, 27. Nov 20, 17:52
Gav, I've literally installed a 3070 into my PC today, and I too play on a 4K TV.

I can't speak for things like Cyberpunk (as it's not out yet) but it seems plenty powerful for gaming at 1440 on ultra settings, which I find more than enough. I tried to get a 3080 but missed out (they were on sale for about 40 seconds before they went out of stock, and this was the first stock drop in 4 weeks!)

Personally, if I had the choice I'd go 3080 because I like overkill, but having tried the 3070 for all of 2-3 hours I'm not sure I would have needed it! :D
LOL, I'm even more conflicted now... - Thing is, there's quite a performance leap from 3070 to 3080, but as you can now testify to, it's likely an unnecessary leap. Palicomp are not showing any part shortages for any of the RTX 3000 series cards, but I did note the only pre built comps they're offering with such cards have 3070s in them.

The only game I'll own that would tax it will be X4, but I'll be sure to look at buying further ones that savage graphic cards, whichever solution I go for.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 22:38

jlehtone wrote:
Fri, 27. Nov 20, 18:46
Gavrushka wrote:
Fri, 27. Nov 20, 08:16
If I read it right, an M2 interface works far, far faster than a SSD without.
The M.2 is a physical connector. Some sneaky engineers did decide to dual-purpose it.

There are SATA M.2 SSD drives that are no faster than any other SATA SSD. All those use the AHCI.

There are NVMe M.2 SSD drives that are connected directly with PCIe (and use NVMe that is different from AHCI).
Some motherboards did connect just x2 PCIe (two lanes) to a M.2. Others do use x4 PCIe (four lanes).
Latest generation (AMD?) have x4 PCIe gen 4.0, while most boards have still gen 3.0.

ADATA has both PCIe and SATA M.2 drives.

Many motherboards have a M.2 connector wired to both PCIe and SATA controller.
You can plug in a SATA SSD that has M.2 connector or a NVMe SSD. The board will auto-detect.
In both cases some of the traditional SATA connectors might be disabled.
The manual of TUF B460-plus wrote:* M.2_1 slot (supports PCIe 3.0 x4 & SATA modes)
* M.2_2 slot (supports PCIe 3.0 x4 mode)
* M.2_1 shares bandwidth with SATA6G_1. When M.2_1 runs in SATA mode, SATA6G_1 will be disabled.
I did get the impression that AMD has now, for couple CPU generations, had x4 PCIe lanes on the CPU that boards wire to a M.2. One M.2 NVMe drive can thus be directly connected to the CPU (just like the GPU, for which both brands tend to have 16 lanes).
I did note the different categories of SSD, and it was the raw speed I looked at, which at first glance was confusing as SSDs headline their rates with bits per second, whereas M2 ones are in bytes per second. - As I understand it, the setup will allow the M2 to run at its maximum stated speed.

Am I right in thinking that Optane also uses an M2 connector, or am I making that up? - I'm not even sure what it's supposed to do, but imagine it fetches likely needed data in advance from slower drives?
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by felter » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 23:18

I haven't read the whole thread so I may have missed it, but I can't see where you have mentioned what it is you are actually going to be doing with the computer, if it's for gaming, steaming, video editing, 3d rendering or photo editing and manipulation, does help to know when it comes to hardware.
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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Fri, 27. Nov 20, 23:47

felter wrote:
Fri, 27. Nov 20, 23:18
I haven't read the whole thread so I may have missed it, but I can't see where you have mentioned what it is you are actually going to be doing with the computer, if it's for gaming, steaming, video editing, 3d rendering or photo editing and manipulation, does help to know when it comes to hardware.
Microsoft Office in the main! LOL... No, seriously it is.

But I don't have the financial bandwidth to run two computers, so it's also for gaming. X4 is currently the game that challenges my hardware hardest, but I'd like to feel I didn't have to check the specs for the next year or two when buying a new game. - It's just a few weeks since I bought a GTX1660 for my existing computer, but I've already agreed to pass this, along with my current PC (I7 8700), to a family member.

I will be scanning a boatload of old photos, then transferring them to an NAS, but I don't suppose that will tax anything much.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by felter » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 00:02

In that case, you don't need to go for something like an Intel 10700 or the AMD 5800/5900/5950 as games or office do not need or use the multi-thread capacity of those CPU's, so you are better off getting a Ryzen 5 5600X, it's a lot cheaper, uses nearly half the amount of power as a 10700 and it still has 6 cores, which is more than enough for what you are going to use it for. Another good reason to go for an AMD cpu over Intel, is that they keep using the same processor socket on the mobo, so the chances are you would be able to upgrade to the future AMD cpu without having to change the motherboard and ram.
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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 00:53

Thanks for that, Felter. I checked on the CPU UserBenchmarks site. comparing the 5600 with the 10700K, and there's barely a hair's breadth between them. - The only issue I have is I'm a stuck-in-my-ways old fart, and have used Intel since the late 80s, and the only AMD processor I ever had failed on me, an Athlon X4. - But I *love* the fact the 5600 is more energy efficient, alongside being £100 cheaper.

You've given me something to think on, but it's gonna be very hard to consider anything other than Intel.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 04:11

Gavrushka wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 00:53
Thanks for that, Felter. I checked on the CPU UserBenchmarks site. comparing the 5600 with the 10700K, and there's barely a hair's breadth between them. - The only issue I have is I'm a stuck-in-my-ways old fart, and have used Intel since the late 80s, and the only AMD processor I ever had failed on me, an Athlon X4. - But I *love* the fact the 5600 is more energy efficient, alongside being £100 cheaper.

You've given me something to think on, but it's gonna be very hard to consider anything other than Intel.
I'm with you all the way. Every single time I've ventured into AMD world, with either their GPUs or CPUs, I end up with shit hardware or shit drivers or both. I've stuck with Intel and Nvidia and I've never been disappointed. In fact, my go to build is pretty well always Intel CPU, Asus mobo, Corsair RAM, EVGA Nvidia GPU, Samsung SSD, and I've never once been disappointed.

AMD may have the fastest benchmarked CPU's on the market today, but the marginal gains aren't worth sacrificing reliability, imo.
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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 04:18

Since I dont think anyone else has mentioned it yet, the 3600 MHz RAM being overclocked is the recommended overclocked speed using an XMP Profile (pre-set timings, etc). You'll have to go into BIOS/UEFI and turn XMP memory profile on (or overclock it manually if you know how). Important thing is to check your motherboard's qualified vendors list (QVL) to make sure its compatible, otherise you might end up in a situation like mine where I have to run my RAM at a lower speed for a stable system which isn't good as CPUs now really benefit from fast RAM.

edit: just noticed you say prebuilt. They'll probably do all that for you.
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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by pjknibbs » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 07:14

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 04:11
AMD may have the fastest benchmarked CPU's on the market today, but the marginal gains aren't worth sacrificing reliability, imo.
And if it did mean that then I'm sure it would be all over the news, but your experience with AMD CPUs seems to be atypical, at least at the moment. My last 3 computers have used AMD processors--Athlon X3, then Athlon X4 860K, and now a Ryzen 2600--and I've not had any more problems with them than I had with Intel hardware previously.

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 08:31

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 04:11


I'm with you all the way. Every single time I've ventured into AMD world, with either their GPUs or CPUs, I end up with shit hardware or shit drivers or both. I've stuck with Intel and Nvidia and I've never been disappointed. In fact, my go to build is pretty well always Intel CPU, Asus mobo, Corsair RAM, EVGA Nvidia GPU, Samsung SSD, and I've never once been disappointed.

AMD may have the fastest benchmarked CPU's on the market today, but the marginal gains aren't worth sacrificing reliability, imo.
It's pretty similar for me, but regarding brands, it's more specific ones I like to avoid. - A CPU dying is a pretty big hit to take, and I've never had it happen before, all the way back to my first PC, a Sharp MZ 80K, back in the 70s. - As regards drives, I'll not touch WD because two failed on me in a relatively short time. - And I had a series of PSUs fail too, even though they in theory were running way below design capacity. - Swapping in a new PSU is likely my least favourite job...
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 08:33

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 04:18
Since I dont think anyone else has mentioned it yet, the 3600 MHz RAM being overclocked is the recommended overclocked speed using an XMP Profile (pre-set timings, etc). You'll have to go into BIOS/UEFI and turn XMP memory profile on (or overclock it manually if you know how). Important thing is to check your motherboard's qualified vendors list (QVL) to make sure its compatible, otherise you might end up in a situation like mine where I have to run my RAM at a lower speed for a stable system which isn't good as CPUs now really benefit from fast RAM.

edit: just noticed you say prebuilt. They'll probably do all that for you.
Yeah, they prebuild and test it for me, and Palicomp are very, very good. - Only thing is I don't really like anything overclocked, but I was struggling to find fast memory that wasn't. - I believe there's some 3200 rated memory available that is 'genuine,' and I may just switch to that if it doesn't hurt performance too much.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Gavrushka » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 08:37

pjknibbs wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 07:14
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 04:11
AMD may have the fastest benchmarked CPU's on the market today, but the marginal gains aren't worth sacrificing reliability, imo.
And if it did mean that then I'm sure it would be all over the news, but your experience with AMD CPUs seems to be atypical, at least at the moment. My last 3 computers have used AMD processors--Athlon X3, then Athlon X4 860K, and now a Ryzen 2600--and I've not had any more problems with them than I had with Intel hardware previously.
The X4 880K was brilliant while it lasted (a little over a year,) but I guess personal experience always guides us. - Maybe it's always good practice to have a better CPU cooler than the stock one with AMD, as I did note in some reviews that they did generate a fair bit of heat. - After my X4 failed, I installed monitoring software for heat in my subsequent system, and made sure to clean fans etc regularly. - Maybe if I'd done the same with the Athlon, it would have lasted longer.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 13:05

Gavrushka wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 08:33
Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 04:18
Since I dont think anyone else has mentioned it yet, the 3600 MHz RAM being overclocked is the recommended overclocked speed using an XMP Profile (pre-set timings, etc). You'll have to go into BIOS/UEFI and turn XMP memory profile on (or overclock it manually if you know how). Important thing is to check your motherboard's qualified vendors list (QVL) to make sure its compatible, otherise you might end up in a situation like mine where I have to run my RAM at a lower speed for a stable system which isn't good as CPUs now really benefit from fast RAM.

edit: just noticed you say prebuilt. They'll probably do all that for you.
Yeah, they prebuild and test it for me, and Palicomp are very, very good. - Only thing is I don't really like anything overclocked, but I was struggling to find fast memory that wasn't. - I believe there's some 3200 rated memory available that is 'genuine,' and I may just switch to that if it doesn't hurt performance too much.
I don't believe any RAM at 3000MHz+ gets there without overclocking. Overclocking these days isn't bad anyway? Not sure why you'd avoid it.
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Re: Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 28. Nov 20, 16:28

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sat, 28. Nov 20, 13:05
I don't believe any RAM at 3000MHz+ gets there without overclocking. Overclocking these days isn't bad anyway? Not sure why you'd avoid it.
Lets take OT example:
A Dell rack server. It hosts 2nd Gen. Intel Xeon Scalable CPU. Intel spec says:
* Memory Type DDR4-2400
* Maximum Memory Speed 2400 MHz
(The i7-10700 has "Memory Type DDR4-2933".)

What memory does Dell pack into such server? 2666, 2933, or preferably 3200 RDIMMs. Not "2400".
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