Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

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muppetts
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Post by muppetts » Sat, 17. Mar 18, 16:48

JSDD wrote:
muppetts wrote:He needs to be reined in
there is no one who can do that. usually thats the customer's job, but since he already has the necessary money to "play around", he doesnt need the customer(s money in the near future)

no financial risk = no worries/concerns (which means "just keep doing it")

its all about the money, without it there wouldnt be a "robertspaceindustries" (at least not that big). consider yourself as an investor/stakeholder: robert comes to you, makes all his promises, you believe him and buy some shares of his company. then you start realizing that he's fooled you, he's playing around with your money for 6 years ... at some point you will stand up, give him the middlefinger and a "F you" and sell your shares on his company. unfortunately, all thoes "kickstarters" arent able to sell any shares because they never owned anything of the company ... those are the people who are being fooled and cant do anything about it ...
He's not trying to fool anyone, he's not doing this to rip people off for money, he is simply out of control and providing terrible management. I'm sure in his head he thinks everything is ok. i don't think he is a bad person, just very misguided on where to draw the line.
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Post by muppetts » Sat, 17. Mar 18, 16:50

pjknibbs wrote:
muppetts wrote:I don't think he is doing this for money, it's not a con
I don't think it has to be a con for "too much money" to be a problem. Somebody can have the best intentions and still let their ambition outstrip their talent if there are no money or time pressures, and let's face it, there obviously aren't time pressures for Star Citizen when there are still people who can say with a straight face that it being four years late isn't a problem!
I'm not saying that, having too much money is a problem, I don't think he started this with the goal of personnel wealth and this is an elaborate fraud in order to get that money.
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Morkonan
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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 17. Mar 18, 19:05

pjknibbs wrote:
muppetts wrote:I don't think he is doing this for money, it's not a con
I don't think it has to be a con for "too much money" to be a problem. Somebody can have the best intentions and still let their ambition outstrip their talent if there are no money or time pressures, and let's face it, there obviously aren't time pressures for Star Citizen when there are still people who can say with a straight face that it being four years late isn't a problem!
People are buying into the project.

"Wow, look, everyone is supporting our project! We've got all these fans and we haven't even finished it, yet. We must be doing something right! Let's keep doing that! Yay!"

And then..

"Well, they just don't understand. All this stuff they approve of, because they're still here and staring at us, handing us money, takes time. They're still enthusiastic and every time we release a video update with cool visuals and neat tech demos, they go crazy with enthusiasm. We must be doing something right! Keep going!"

But...

"This is gonna be so cool! Space-toilets! THAT IS REALISM! OK, move this vert over here... yeah, that looks nice... And, Joe's got that new greeble-generator up and running. SPACE-TOILET-GREEBLES! Gonna be so cool... Wait, who turned off the lights? What? OUT OF MONEY? WTF? How did that happen? Dang... Well, what now? What do you mean "We gotta actually sell something? WTF else have we been doing for the past fifteen years?"

...

"Hey guys! What do you think of this box art? Yes, that's right, we're actually going to release a box version! It's gonna be so cool! You'll be able to actually hold the game in your hands, like a real video-game-experience should be experienced, with a box! What do you guys think about that?"

/moneypoursin

/lightsbackon

"We're back in business, guys! Let's buy a foosball table for the break room."

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Observe
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Post by Observe » Sat, 17. Mar 18, 23:51

Where are things at with Squadron 42? Any word of release?

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Post by felter » Sun, 8. Apr 18, 16:25

If you are a fan boy of SC and don't think CR can do anything wrong you may not want to watch.

A history of Star Citizen from the early days of the Kickstarter and before, right up to current day, well from a few weeks back.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
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Post by Tycow » Sun, 8. Apr 18, 19:06

Watching these is going to be a struggle... The guy's cadence is all over the place and he sounds like a smug Kermit the Frog.

I'm going in!

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Post by Morkonan » Sun, 8. Apr 18, 20:01

I watched the first, will watch the rest later. I like the commentary, probably because I don't know much about SC development and have no actual stake in the game other than desiring to see it actually made. :)

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Post by Tycow » Sun, 8. Apr 18, 21:18

Videos were good, informative and well made. I'm glad people are holding CIG to task over progress so far. :)

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Post by felter » Sun, 8. Apr 18, 22:15

For me I was surprised by the amount of cash some people have spent on the game and that RSI/CIG are very happy to let them do it. Especially as I have just watched another video the other day there, where the guys behind Warframe removed a microtransaction feature because one guy was spending far too much cash on it. They thought they had created a slot machine and it was unethical to let their customers use it as such. And here we have RSI/CIG screwing people for as much cash as they can scam out of them, for a game that should have been released years ago.
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Chips
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Post by Chips » Sun, 8. Apr 18, 22:35

SC hasn't created a slot machine though... the people who are paying for something know what they're paying for. The fact it isn't there in a playable game is all you can argue about.

You don't like the fact people are buying something that doesn't exist yet - however we have people who spend millions reserving the latest, greatest, not-actually-made-yet supercar, and paying for the extras/addons/paint colour.

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Post by felter » Sun, 8. Apr 18, 23:13

It's just the pure ethics of it. While there may not be a slot machine they are just asking for massive amounts of money right from the start and playing on the weakness and vulnerabilities of some people in society, and doing it without a care if it harms them or not. That is the issue, Digital extremes noticed that a single person was paying hundreds of dollars and realised that letting someone do such a thing was wrong, where as Chris Roberts openly grabs and abuses the trust in him that he wont do such a thing to stop on the contrary he will go to court to defend his right to screw them over. Where do you draw the line, when does it become an issue and when is it wrong.

If the game had came out when it had, how many of these people would have spent this sort of money on his game and the longer he goes without releasing the final game, the more he can wrangle out of the hands of compulsive buyers. Has he deliberately delayed the game so he can make more cash. Maybe he is not doing it intentionally but he is doing it all the same, especially as he keeps coming out with new ways to get his investors to come up with more cash, while not actually giving them anything. It's easy create a new ship and sell it for $400 dollars or create a new planet and sell the land plots for $100 - $400.

Some will say, but they know what they are doing and can afford it or they wouldn't do it. I watched a video a few months back, where a guy spent $5000 on Guild Wars 2 in a weekend, now while he could afford it or so he said, he was also having to receive psychological counselling because he can't help himself from spending his money on such things. To him it was just like a gambling addiction, he got a buzz from it, he knew it was stupid and wrong but he cannot help himself. This is the type of person Roberts is praying on and it is just wrong, the man is a dried up ethical well.
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Chips
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Post by Chips » Mon, 9. Apr 18, 14:52

Do supermarkets check your bank balance before accepting a payment? Does a restaurant check you're living within your means before it accepts your booking? Does the travel company check you can afford without saddling yourself with debt? Does "clothes shop" ask for financial statements before you're able to buy new clothing?

We live in a very consumerist society. Do people *need* to spend $1200 on the new iPhone or will the old model see them through? Should Apple therefore do financial checks on the individuals before allowing them to buy?

Yes, SC could be said to be supplying rope with which fiscally incompetent individuals hang themselves, but all the purchases you can make are not a necessity to play the game; they're voluntary. Just like most voluntary payments you make, no-one is actually checking you can continue to spend that money.

I do agree that there's the possibility that they're reliant entirely upon the continued purchase of items by individuals to support the development, and do agree that it's in their best interest to therefore produce more in the hopes that people buy it. I.e their development is predicated around continued supplying of things people purchase.

But I don't think it equates to gambling and taking advantage of someone suffering an addiction to the risk/reward cycle gambling relies upon. I'm sure if someone sought medical help (or was given it) they'd be able too get refunds on the items... and you could always do a charge back.

I can kinda see where you're coming from, but unless it's an illness someone is suffering from, don't see why the company should stop making and selling things if the demand is there.

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Post by Morkonan » Mon, 9. Apr 18, 18:28

Chips wrote:...I can kinda see where you're coming from, but unless it's an illness someone is suffering from, don't see why the company should stop making and selling things if the demand is there.
You can create demand.

In an environment that you completely control, you can place so many inducements for purchase that a player who enjoys that environment is practically guaranteed to develop a "want" for an item.

If you control the environment, control the rewards, control the activities, control how that environment works, how it's built, how it's presented to those within it, there is very little to keep you from actually controlling the people in that environment.

This is the premise behind the most profitable, and most disgusting, "freemium" games out there. Developers actually hire psychologists to help them make their products more desirable, more necessary, for fans who play these sorts of games.

You can control a devoted fan's desires to the point where the "choice" that we assume must always exist is truly, practically, nonexistent. For those who successfully resist that compunction to purchase what you've tailored for them, they'll likely quit the game anyway, since they don't wish to continue experiencing the game if it costs them a certain amount of money. But, for others, those who are deeply involved with the game, they'll make what others would consider to be irreconcilable sacrifices to continue their experiences, all due to your carefully constructed Skinner box that is designed to capture such players.

Sometimes, people need to be protected from themselves, especially when it is legal for developers to construct games that are specifically designed to control a player's real-world desires in favor of giving the developers more money.

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Post by Chips » Mon, 9. Apr 18, 20:43

So what part of an unreleased, unplayable game fits with that description? How is applicable to SC whatsoever? Furthermore, it'd need some evidence to back it up.

The original comparison was between a game that had been released where they'd inadvertently created a gambling scenario involving real money, and SC producing content you know what you're getting when you buy (absolutely zero gambling involved - other than promise the game is released I guess - but that hardly fits the typical gambling definition).

Other than a possibility of failure, SC isn't a gamble when buying something they offer. No more so than any other transaction you partake in during normal life. If they created a $20 pot luck crate, whereby you've got perhaps a 1% chance of winning exclusive ship, 10% chance of winning the free insurance, 50% chance of winning ingame credits, and 19% chance of laughing emoji...

Yes, if someone needs help - seek help from the medical company. It isn't for SC to diagnose every individual purchasing anything whether they've somehow (unproven to this point) become "addicted" to buying "things" for the game to the point its damaging their living. By all means dislike how they raise funds, I do as well because there's no game at present. But lets not paint it into a picture that it really isn't...

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Re: Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

Post by segmentationfault » Wed, 3. Oct 18, 16:05

Anyone here going to CitizenCon next week?

I'm pretty exciting about the presentations they have in CitCon this year. All the presentations will be published in YouTube and as far as I know there should be about 10 hours worth of presentations to listen/watch.

Evocati testers has been testing a3.3 and a3.3+OCS versions about a week now but hopefully wave 1 PTU is not too far away.

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Re: Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

Post by felter » Wed, 3. Oct 18, 17:29

segmentationfault wrote:
Wed, 3. Oct 18, 16:05
Evocati testers has been testing a3.3 and a3.3+OCS versions about a week now but hopefully wave 1 PTU is not too far away.

That was another scam by Roberts, I was supposed to get both Alpha and Beta access to the game as part of my crowdfunding pledge I made but they took that away from me. along with everyone else who made that pledge for that access and gave it to everyone in a PTU, and a few with the title of Evocati. I'm actually surprised the game is still going, it is taking far to long to develop. X4 was started after it and is going to be released long before Star (scam) Citizen is going to be released. Hell, ED was started after it, been released for years and is about to have a major update, but still no sign for Star (scam) Citizen.
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Re: Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

Post by segmentationfault » Wed, 3. Oct 18, 17:43

felter wrote:
Wed, 3. Oct 18, 17:29
That was another scam by Roberts, I was supposed to get both Alpha and Beta access to the game as part of my crowdfunding pledge I made but they took that away from me. along with everyone else who made that pledge for that access and gave it to everyone in a PTU, and a few with the title of Evocati. I'm actually surprised the game is still going, it is taking far to long to develop. X4 was started after it and is going to be released long before Star (scam) Citizen is going to be released. Hell, ED was started after it, been released for years and is about to have a major update, but still no sign for Star (scam) Citizen.
I'm not sure if I understood right but eveyone who are able to fly a ship in a game has Alpha and Beta access. You are not able to test Alpha 3.2 either? Anyone can also become a member of Evocati testers just by testing the game.

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Re: Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

Post by Chips » Wed, 3. Oct 18, 18:15

A good reminder that it's > 6 years since I made this thread, and he claimed a year development prior to that - 7 years, not bad!

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Re: Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

Post by segmentationfault » Wed, 3. Oct 18, 18:21

I don't personally care how long time it will take to develop Star Citizen PU or Squadron 42 as long we are going to get a amazing game as it looks like it is going to be. I'm than happy to play E:D, X4 (and older ones), Helium Rain and many other space games along side of Star Citizen Alpha versions :). None of them is a replacement for Star Citizen and doesn't have to be. Space game fans have great times.

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Re: Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

Post by Chips » Wed, 3. Oct 18, 18:33

You may not care about when it gets released, and in truth I could argue I do not - but that's simply because I've near lost interest. It's morphed from what was claimed it'd be into something else.

What I have increasingly found irritating over the years is the lack of adhering to promises from which people funded with money and, no other word for it, diabolical incompetent management.
Not. Even. An. Apology.

I'm sure it'll be amazing when (if) it gets released. It just may not be the amazing game I chucked my money towards, but some hybrid garbage that's jack of all master of none :D

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