Random News not worthy of own thread

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by clakclak » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 18:54

felter wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 17:25
Some Americans do not share anything with fellow Americans, it is part of their culture, as they see it as being socialist or/and communist. They believe if you can't afford it then it is not their problem, you must pay for it by yourself. Of course not all American believe this as so, but a large portion of them do because they believe it is socialism, doesn't matter if it actually is or not, it's what they believe it is. Justification in this just listen to what has been said especially over the last 4 years of the Trump administrations. Just look at health care and what has been said about that in America these past years. [...]
Some interesting thoughts, but I do not agree. I think socialism needs more than just sharing some food.
felter wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 17:25
You may not believe it is a form socialism, but socialism is the sharing between all member of the society, no matter what their circumstances are, rich or poor doesn't matter and if you think that the sharing of food like this is not a socialist idea then what is.[...]
You call it socialism, I call it basic human compassion. Something that is hard to come by and very selectivly applied.
Mightysword wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 17:48
[...]You can defund the entire US military and throw all the money into social program, and it will not make a lot of a difference.
Let's do that, but for all countries. Can we please?
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Ketraar » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 19:40

Mightysword wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 17:48
You can defund the entire US military and throw all the money into social program, and it will not make a lot of a difference.
This is the usual baseless argument used to somehow excuse exploiting people. You dont need to put it in social programs, just give people WHAT THEY DESERVE! The problem with some short-sighted people is that they think their success is of their own making, news flash ITS NOT! When some dude invents stuff, say Elon Musk and makes a bajilion moneys, he did it on the back of MILLIONS of other people. Some were teachers, garbage collectors, technicians, toll both workers, they ALL created the environment that allowed Elon to invent Paypal, so I'd argue they also have the right to gain from it. One such way is via taxes where Elon pays a lot more of them which then should improve the life of others.

So saying that spending 700 Billion Dollars per year on educations, affordable housing, clean energy, or whatnot would have no impact is disingenuous at best.

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Teladi CEO » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 20:07

Ketraar wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 19:40
Mightysword wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 17:48
You can defund the entire US military and throw all the money into social program, and it will not make a lot of a difference.
This is the usual baseless argument used to somehow excuse exploiting people. You dont need to put it in social programs, just give people WHAT THEY DESERVE! The problem with some short-sighted people is that they think their success is of their own making, news flash ITS NOT! When some dude invents stuff, say Elon Musk and makes a bajilion moneys, he did it on the back of MILLIONS of other people. Some were teachers, garbage collectors, technicians, toll both workers, they ALL created the environment that allowed Elon to invent Paypal, so I'd argue they also have the right to gain from it. One such way is via taxes where Elon pays a lot more of them which then should improve the life of others.

So saying that spending 700 Billion Dollars per year on educations, affordable housing, clean energy, or whatnot would have no impact is disingenuous at best.

MFG

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While I completely and utterly agree that billionaires need to pay higher taxes. I think your line of thinking may be flawed, while all those people allowed for Elon Musk to succeed, all those people also help teachers and soldiers to succeed. Should soldiers and teachers pay higher taxes, or do the work they provide in return enough? With that in mind wouldn’t Elon Musks help in technological advancement, the government and providing cars that are eco friendly also pay for it. If I misunderstood please correct me.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Mightysword » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 20:36

Ketraar wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 19:40
This is the usual baseless argument used to somehow excuse exploiting people. You dont need to put it in social programs, just give people WHAT THEY DESERVE!
Maybe it appears as a baseless argument to you because you missed the point entirely. :roll:

Using my example from the healthcare thread: the government as a whole (state and federal) spent 1.4 trillion in providing healthcare coverage, and that amount barely - BARELY - cover the most vulnerable portion of the population (old, poor, disabled), and this is just HEALTHCARE, it does not include social security (which is another trillion annually). My point was not about what people deserve (where that even came from!?), but simply put, even if we dumb all the money we spent on defense - and by that I mean the US has no army at all - we won't make that much of a different. That extra money will not cover even half of the population as it stands.
clakclak wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 18:54
You call it socialism, I call it basic human compassion. Something that is hard to come by and very selectively applied.
Or just keep it simple and call it communal sense? Which is something has existed ever since humanity come together and found societies. And in my view American have a fairly strong communal sense, at least stronger than the other cultures that I had lived in - regardless of their politic. Someone who voted against universal healthcare or income does not mean he/she will not help a fellow American in-need. Like, call it improve communal sense and look after each others, I bet you won't find a lot of American against that idea regardless the person are from California or from Texas. Call it socialism or capitalism and people gonna rub their fist and fight. :shock:

Capitalism, socialism are all political terms that makes people tickerish, jumping to conclusion, dismissive instead of seeking clarification, and overall just argue under worst assumption rather than in good faith. A lot of parents believe in raising strong independent children, but in the world of politic that idea will probably be twisted into something equivalent leaving children to the wolves to do or die. :sceptic:

clakclak wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 18:54
Let's do that, but for all countries. Can we please?
It's nice to have dream, but it's better to be realistic.

You know we're celebrating landing another robot on Mars. But I always though if the cold war doesn't exist, and Russia, China, Europe, US are just one big happy family ... we wouldn't be celebrating landing another robot right now, we probably would be celebrating the first human landing on Mars.
Last edited by Mightysword on Thu, 25. Feb 21, 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 20:45

It's not always about how much you spend or are given, it's often more about how efficiently and effectively you a) spend the money that you do have and b) justify the addition of more funding. Sure, more money being available is usually great news, but not if you just waste even more on bureaucracy, corruption, projects doomed to fail and projects that don't really need doing.

Anyway, back on topic, let's not totally confuse charity and politics. Certainly the two overlap as charity can sometimes be a political tool, while politics can sometimes be a framework and safeguard in which charity can operate safely and effectively.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Mightysword » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 20:56

@Alan.

Yes, and if you notice that's exactly the point I'm trying to raise both in the other thread and this. I just really dislike the stereotype narrative. Looking at the result, we're not doing enough, but that doesn't mean we're not already doing a lot or nothing at all. And the point of efficiency is exactly why many American are suspicious about handing the reign to the government. Like I said, in my experience American have a very strong communal sense, and this demonstrate through the amount of volunteer and money going into the charity sector, this is one of the last country in the world I would accuse its citizens are uncaring for their fellow.

And that has nothing to do with politic.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Ketraar » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 21:11

Teladi CEO wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 20:07
While I completely and utterly agree that billionaires need to pay higher taxes. I think your line of thinking may be flawed, while all those people allowed for Elon Musk to succeed, all those people also help teachers and soldiers to succeed. Should soldiers and teachers pay higher taxes, or do the work they provide in return enough? With that in mind wouldn’t Elon Musks help in technological advancement, the government and providing cars that are eco friendly also pay for it. If I misunderstood please correct me.
I didnt say they should pay higher takes because they are billionaires, I'm saying as a whole the society creates the environment that allows people to create stuff. If Elon Musk would have to fetch water 3 times a day just to survive he, however brilliant he is, would not be able to study, which allowed him to be able to put his talent to use. If Da Vinci had to raise 3 kids while working 2 jobs, he would not have invented much either. So the point was that wealth creation is not just at the faucet, but starts at the well. As such wealth should be redistributed in a way that reaches those that in fact do carry the highest burden in maintain a society and not just reward those that drew a lucky straw.

If that means higher taxes for some or trimming unneeded and bloated programs that mostly benefit a few interest, then sure. But thats not just gov money, but also creating standards where a family "worth" 250Billion has thousands of workers earning starvation wages is not allowed. But no socialism is bad, because people with enough money to not die may decide they want an education and then may not tolerate BS and demand better living/working conditions and those Yachts dont come cheap. :roll:

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 22:06

Mightysword wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 17:48
felter wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 17:25
Some Americans do not share anything with fellow Americans, it is part of their culture, as they see it as being socialist or/and communist. They believe if you can't afford it then it is not their problem, you must pay for it by yourself.
I'm sorry, I may not be an native American but as someone who live here for 2 decades, what you just said is simply internet stereotype, you are also mixing up politic and personality. Please look up which country in the world is the most generous on the charitable ranking. American just don't like to trust government run socialism because some think it's inefficient (and as a country we have natural distrust of the government built in), that doesn't mean they don't want to help their fellow citizens. American generally donate a lot, both time and money to help others especially when disaster struck, and that something I'm pretty sure and proud about, especially when comparing to the region where I originally came from. We just do it in a very decentralize way.

Again, not everything is dictated or reflected with politic. I had said something similar before, given the size of the US and with what being done, there are always gonna be a sense that we're not doing enough, but that doesn't mean we don't do anything at all, and what we already done are more than a lot of others. If you look at the budget, the #1 top spending are social entitlement (social security), and the #2 item are spent on healthcare, and together they usually account for more than 50% of the federal budget. Again, is that enough? No. But then that's also the reason why you see some people don't believe in government run social programs. You can defund the entire US military and throw all the money into social program, and it will not make a lot of a difference.
You have got to be joking. I am a natural born citizen of the US and I've been here for 4 decades and have been all over this country. There are plenty of Americans that have that exact mentality that Felter mentioned. While that mentality is not exclusive to Americans, there are many that do.

I really find it amazing that in your 2 decades here you've not come across any. No, I'm sorry but what you're doing is looking to find politicS in every statement you disagree with.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by BaronVerde » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 22:30

There's nothing wrong with socialism per se. It is just as much an illusion as capitalism or communism (my opinion). But if I could choose (which I can't) I'd choose socialism as the society to live in. It is more natural than capitalism and less brutal than 'practical' communism. People lived without much personal possessions for >3 million years, different species at the same time in the same geography. It is the unluck of self domestication that made the past 5 to 10,000 years so ... bloody, and that's just a few hundred generations.

Ok, not 100% serious, but >50 :-)

Stanislaw Lem, arguable the most intelligent and witty scifi writer of the 20th century, once said something like "The greatest misfortune of the 20th century was that communisam wasn't tried on mice before practiced on humans". As some if not most here probably know, he was raised behind the iron curtain in a communistic society (cold war Poland), so sometimes came along slightly subversive or at least ironical. Died 2006 when I was on archaeological excavation in Arabia. As a young guy, I loved reading his novels and short stories. Can definitely recommend him, most of his work has been translated into English meanwhile.

Random fact: When we increase the radius of a circle of 2cm by 1cm, its circumference increases by ~6.3cm. When we increase the radius of the earth by 1cm, its circumference increases by ... ~6.3cm. Doh.

Ok, that was trivial, this one isn't. One driver for the global ocean conveyor belt or 'thermohaline circulation' that distributes ocean heat across the globe is the 'Atlantic meridional overturning circulation' (AMOC) in the northern atlantic, where driven by density, salinity differenes and coriolis force warm salty waters sink down, dragging the golf stream after them, and flow back south and east down below (simplifying). The AMOC is knwon to weaken and strengthen over time and hypothesized to even switch states, e.g. at submerged barriers like the Greenland-Iceland-Faroe ridge, thus 'regulating' heat and moisture flow to the northern Atlantic. For instance, an outflow of freshwater from the northern American lakes is in dicussion to be responsible for a short but hefty cold period, the 'Younger Dryas', at the beginning of the current post glacial epoch, the Holocene.

A similar situation, thawing Greenland and the connected outflow of fresh water suppressing the salinity driven part of the AMOC is currently in discussion as a possible cause of future cooling in western Europe and along the eastern parts of the northern American continent. Since quite some time geoscience is pondering this, but recent rapidly accelerating thawing has been observed, models are constantly revised, just not to the 'better'. What's discussed is if the AMOC continues to weaken, if it can switch state again, and how much is needed in a warming climate for it to happen.

Be it as it may, we're currently betting against it, despite warning signs that some thresholds (Greenland thawing) have already been crossed. 20 years ago we learned in the introductory geoscience lectures that humanity can't thaw Greenland so easily. That's yesterdays snow meanwhile, the most aggressive projections say Greenland may be good for 1m sea level rise until the end of the century. Problem: projections are constantly raised, with new data, thresholds crossed, positive feedbacks explained ...

Further reading: science journals :-)

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Fri, 26. Feb 21, 09:30

Ketraar wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 21:11
Teladi CEO wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 20:07
While I completely and utterly agree that billionaires need to pay higher taxes. I think your line of thinking may be flawed, while all those people allowed for Elon Musk to succeed, all those people also help teachers and soldiers to succeed. Should soldiers and teachers pay higher taxes, or do the work they provide in return enough? With that in mind wouldn’t Elon Musks help in technological advancement, the government and providing cars that are eco friendly also pay for it. If I misunderstood please correct me.
I didnt say they should pay higher takes because they are billionaires, ...
But they should.

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by greypanther » Fri, 26. Feb 21, 14:30

BaronVerde wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 22:30
But if I could choose (which I can't) I'd choose socialism as the society to live in.
Idealism is a wonderful thing. :wink:
Shame there is no other option, at least as far as I know...
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by matthewfarmery » Tue, 2. Mar 21, 21:34

Thought I would post this here, I have to admit fox news have sunk to an even lower level

Fox News faces brutal backlash after hiring 'talentless' Trump 'hack' Kayleigh McEnany

https://www.rawstory.com/kayleigh-mcenany-2650860643/

Sure Fox has lost a lot of its viewers recently, But this move is extremely laughable. Its like fox news want to be known as a channel for miss information, and fake news. And certainly with this hiring, they going to score well there. Can't stop laughing. and seems from some sources, fox has already fired a good number of people as well. Just thought I would share.
=

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by clakclak » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 09:41

Question from a non native speaker. Is "ghetto girl" a common insult in (American) English? I recently saw this video of (US) police officers and some other people getting into a heated shouting match and one of the police officers shouted "shut up ghetto girl" at one of the women. It just seemed like a really strange insult and I have never heard it before.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 10:05

I'm sure it's not a compliment.
Like calling "farm boy" a guy living in the countryside: it's an implicit insult, like saying he's "not at your level".

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by clakclak » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 11:05

BrasatoAlBarolo wrote:
Thu, 4. Mar 21, 10:05
I'm sure it's not a compliment.
Like calling "farm boy" a guy living in the countryside: it's an implicit insult, like saying he's "not at your level".
I know it is an insult. It is a servant of a state arguing that the state he works for create a class of "ghetto people" that are worth less than regular humans and thus can be treated as less than other citizens. The message here is quite clear: "I do not serve you, you are worthless". What suprised me is just how comically stupid it seems to admit that considering he is a cop. So I wondered if it is something so commonly said that he would say it without thinking about the implication.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 11:12

There are several singers that have released or covered songs called 'Ghetto Girl' or 'Ghetto Girls'. Unfortunately the phrase is therefore out there in common parlance now.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 11:43

clakclak wrote:
Thu, 4. Mar 21, 11:05
BrasatoAlBarolo wrote:
Thu, 4. Mar 21, 10:05
I'm sure it's not a compliment.
Like calling "farm boy" a guy living in the countryside: it's an implicit insult, like saying he's "not at your level".
I know it is an insult. It is a servant of a state arguing that the state he works for create a class of "ghetto people" that are worth less than regular humans and thus can be treated as less than other citizens. The message here is quite clear: "I do not serve you, you are worthless". What suprised me is just how comically stupid it seems to admit that considering he is a cop. So I wondered if it is something so commonly said that he would say it without thinking about the implication.
This might look almost like cops aren't fit for their job because they literally are uneducated.

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by BaronVerde » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 11:58

BrasatoAlBarolo wrote:
Thu, 4. Mar 21, 11:43
This might look almost like cops aren't fit for their job because they literally are uneducated.
To me it certainly seems so. The cited shout is what I would attribute to a schoolboy, not to a grownup who is supposed to hold up a law. Definitely a failure, and a sign of ignorance toward's his role and job. He fuels the trouble instead of calming people.

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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by clakclak » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 15:32

Alan Phipps wrote:
Thu, 4. Mar 21, 11:12
There are several singers that have released or covered songs called 'Ghetto Girl' or 'Ghetto Girls'. Unfortunately the phrase is therefore out there in common parlance now.
In that case it makes more sense that he would use that particular phrase.
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Re: Random News not worthy of own thread

Post by felter » Sun, 7. Mar 21, 02:31

So John Mcafee has once again been in the news, as he has been charged with conspiracy to commit fraud and money laundering. It all stems around him and his bodyguard buying up a cryptocurrency and then using Mcafee's twitter account to promote the cryptocurrency to Mcafee's followers, with the intention to boost the price and make a profit.

The thing is, as soon as I read about it, this other very well known rich guy came straight to mind, as he just bought 1.5 billion dollars worth of a cryptocurrency and went on a media spree to promote that cryptocurrency to the world, a lot more people than Mcafee would ever reach. And what happened to the price of the cryptocurrency was it's value went through the roof, making Elon Musk a lot more money than Mcafee and his bodyguard made.

So the question has to be, do you think Musk should be facing the exact same charges as Mcafee is currently facing in relation to currency manipulation, and do you think he ever will. If they are both doing the same thing, then surely both should be charged with the exact same crime, maybe even more so with Musk as he was playing around with billions, compared to Mcafee's mere millions. Or do you think Musk has done nothing wrong and shouldn't be charged and if so should the charges against Mcafee also be dismissed.

I know a few of you are money guys, so it would be interesting to know what your take on this is. Have they both actually done the same thing or are they different and if so, how are hey different. They do look like the same thing.
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