Trump

[felter]

just like there is no point in me complaining about Brexit.

Did that stop you from complaining though? I may be mis-remembering you for someone else (if so I apologize for the following comment), but I do think you complained A LOT about it across multiple threads in the past. Do you find it easier to make such statement when the issue does not effect you personally?

I have moaned about the ones who are complaining about it, as most of them were the ones who voted for it. I did moan about it before we left though.

So Cruz has shown his true colours, as while his fellow Texans were freezing cold, he buggered off to Mexico with his family. Which has shown a problem with the Trump wall, as it's meant to stop undesirables from entering America from Mexico, as it is not going to stop him from returning to America, just shows how much of a fail that thing is.

[RegisterMe]

just like there is no point in me complaining about Brexit.

Did that stop you from complaining though? I may be mis-remembering you for someone else (if so I apologize for the following comment), but I do think you complained A LOT about it across multiple threads in the past. Do you find it easier to make such statement when the issue does not effect you personally?

You also missed my point, it wasn't about Texans shouldn't complain or don't have the right to complain. In fact tbh I'm not hearing a lot of complain from Texans, they're dying, they're screaming for help but complaining? Not that I hear a lot, either because they don't, or their complaining are not being focused on by the mainstream media (as it would normally be the case if something like this happens in other states). My point is about all the political opportunist that are ... to put it simply, showing a distinct lack of empathy for the suffering. People are focus more on the political gravitation of seeing something bad happen to the Conservative capital rather than the suffering of the people there. As chip had pointed out, not everyone "deserve" it. My gaming group has a few folks living Texas, and they're some of the most vocal about shitting on the government there (as loud as the Trump shitting in this thread I would say). Sometime we joke they can just move to a blue state, and their response is "but it's better to stay here and try to turn Texas blue!" Currently their arses are freezing all the same like the one who voted for Trump.

But ok, like just say we go with the whole package deal logic you're using. And since you used Brexit as an example, allow me do that as well. There are quite a few member of this forum from UK as I recalled, and I remember a majority of you voted against Brexit. What would you make of someone who come here and constantly mocking, making fun, rubbing in your face of the outcome repeatably without giving a crap what you voted for? Let's say if there is an old lady dying because she couldn't get her med due to Brexit short term scarcity, I can just go up to her and say "tough luck lady, I don't give a crap what you voted for, but you earn your lot for living in the UK so just suck it up!" By your logic, there would be nothing wrong with me for saying that ... but what would that make me as a person? Because guess what, that's the kind of thing you can hear being talked about Texas right now in some circle.

And I'm not really just talking about your posts specifically or the few posts in this tread really, neither I know what's the general attitude in the UK regarding the current situation. It's just a few comments here kinda remind me of the callous nature of quite a few platforms here in the US in the face of what's happening in Texas, and it sadden me. And before anyone say anything, yes, I'm fully aware it's not really different if a disaster hit a blue states. But that simply re-enforces my point, this tic-for-tac attitude showed these day we care about the politic and the inducement we get from it rather the actual people. Yes, it happens every times, but each time the callousness increases at the expense of empathy.

So you reckon the corrupt and incompetent Texas legislature will be voted out then? To be replaced by a (state) government not beholden to the energy industry? Maybe one that will hook up the Texan grid to the rest of the US, even though it would mean being beholden to Federal regulation?

I hope so.

In the meantime who's going to keep all of you warm and safe?

And who's going to put a gag in the mouths of Texan politicians who lambasted eg California a while back? Because let's face it, that's easier than making them eat crow.

In any sensible world Ted Cruz and Greg Abbott would resign immediately. In a marginally less sensible world they'd be voted out at the first opportunity.

I fear we don't live in a sensible world .

[Mightysword]

So you reckon the corrupt and incompetent Texas legislature will be voted out then? To be replaced by a (state) government not beholden to the energy industry? Maybe one that will hook up the Texan grid to the rest of the US, even though it would mean being beholden to Federal regulation?

I don't know? It will largely depend on how Texans themselves view about this no? Just because everyone (mostly liberal) think this is 100% the fault of Texas government, that doesn't mean Texans think the same. Tbh, it's not the view I share either. If you went to VN decades ago, build a house a stick a furnace in the house, no one would praise you for forsight, we would just think you're nut. The cold spell I mentioned may have give you some vindication, but that doesn't mean others can be accused of carelessness, even if some had to pay for it with their life. Like, don't get me wrong, if something like this happen in Colorado and we have mass power loss, some head will have to roll, but this is freaking Texas. Fukushima wasn't a natural disaster, but a man made disaster. But say if a tsunami hit New York resulting in mass life lost, and hindsight said most of that can be avoided if the government have the same contingency plan the Japan government does. I mean ... sure, but can you turn that into a fault of not having one for New York?

Point is - I don't believe this is politic, or you need politic to fix it. The current government can learn and fix it. If they let something like this happen "again", than that will be a different story, and I think even Texans would agree ... maybe. More on this later. @

In any sensible world Ted Cruz and Greg Abbott would resign immediately. In a marginally less sensible world they'd be voted out at the first opportunity.

I fear we don't live in a sensible world .

We had 4 years of Trump*, after all said and done he still manage to get 70+ mil votes. In fact, it is my belief if COVID didn't happens, he would had completely trout it. That's enough to tell you the answer I think.

But let me bring up something else that I think we sometime forgot: and that is these days we focus too much on the shortcoming of the incumbent without realizing Democracy may give people choice, but that itself doesn't mean much if it lacks better alternative.


Do you follow the current scandal of NY governor Cuomo about the nursing home crisis? It's not just Fox and conservative news, but even left leaning outlet are coming down pretty hard on him too. And frankly, if anyone is completely oblivious to who he is, the stuffs coming out make him sound just like a stereotype republican.

Turn out many people, including NYorkers themselves don't have a lot of high opinion about Cuomo, and the only reason he was considered a hero a few months ago was because he was locking horn with Trump. So I asked them so if you guys know Cuomo has always been a scum ... why keep voting for him then? The answer I got shouldn't surprise you: well, he's a scum but it's still better than voting for a republican! And I'm pretty sure after all this, you will get the same answer from some Texans ... just swap the "republican" with "democrat" and you have it for the first part of this post @

Which kinda bring back my original point: the problem is every damn things is political these days. And as long as people keep voting for the color rather than merit, I don't expect thing to get any better.


* The reason I kept mentioning Trump in the last few post wasn't because I want to, but just to trick the mods into thinking we actually stay on topic . Kinda glad the healthcare part got splitted so it can be discussed without bringing him up.

[Vertigo 7]

Yeah, well you made a point there you didn't intend. You see, democrats will hold their own accountable. Republicans won't. Cuomo screwed up and he's going to be made to answer for it one way or another. It's an almost certainty that nothing will change for Abbott or Cruz, on the other hand; not until the democrat voters outnumber the republican ones in Texas, at any rate.

If you haven't caught on, that republican party you were destined to be part of, that's a good ol' boys club. The Texas GOP has been spitting all over them for years and they just smile and say "thank you sir, may I have another?" like they're being praised. These idiots attacked the capital in the name of Trump and attempted to kill Mike Pence, ffs. Do you really expect them to turn around and punish their governor even if there's a repeat of this power grid failure? He's their hero that keeps the non-whites in their place.

[felter]

I watched a few Texas interviews about their current situation, and it's interesting to see that while Trump has been gone for just over a month most Americans are actually taking Covid pretty seriously now, which they never did when Trump was in power, they are nearly all wearing mask and trying to avoid each other. They are also asking how did this happen and why were we not warned about it beforehand. Probably the ones who should have given out the warning, don't believe it is happening, just like global warming isn't happening.

We had a power cut a week or so ago when it was pretty cold here, a little bit colder than what they have been getting in Texas but we are built for it, and while it was only for several hours rather than days, when it's cold and all of your heating and cooking is reliant on electricity you appreciate it even more when it is gone. I ended up going back to bed to get some heat, as it was the warmest place around. As I said it only lasted a few hours and that was bad enough, I can't imagine what we would do if it was for several days. I'm actually thinking I may get a small portable gas campfire just in case, you never know what is around the corner.

[Chips]

That's not how voting works, even if someone personally doesn't vote for something, it doesn't matter if the majority did, you still have to live with the winning vote. Good example Scotland did not vote to leave the EU, I didn't vote to leave the EU, but guess what we left and we have to live with that decision because that is what we voted for, to leave the EU. You cannot go well 48% never voted for it so you can't blame them, but that 48% can't go we didn't vote for it because the majority still did. Also in 2020 52,06 of voting Texans voted for Trump, in 2016 52.23% voted for him, But guess what none of that matters. The majority voted for their current lifestyle so they have it, and there is no point in complaining about it by saying but 48% never voted for it, just like there is no point in me complaining about Brexit. The majority voted for it, so we have to accept that as our choice and live with the consequences.

You're conflating points. For a start, 52% voted for Trump because he was the Republican candidate for the White House. True, a Republican voter could have voted for a Democrat, but US politics is fairly partisan. In the primaries they went Cruz for candidate. Would anything be different? No idea for Texas as not looked into their electricity situation. Likewise, would it have actually been different under the Democrats? No idea... but that's not the point I was making and it's a bit frightening/depressing you've not realised that.

So lets focus upon the actual issue I raise as I honestly have zero interest in the politics of the US - and the point I'm trying to highlight to you (which you seem to completely ignore) is that you're wishing suffering upon people because "you voted for it, enjoy it" during unexpected weather.

It's disgusting. No one "deserves" suffering, and to indicate people should and deserve to suffer is morally repugnant. The bit about the 48% is to show they tried not to deserve it in your opinion, but you're there condemning them all equally.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Reaching the point of frustration for someone saying "then enjoy your suffering" doesn't mean he really means it. It happened to me a lot of times, and is going to in the future as well (take as an example the "cancer can be cured with a curry injection" kind of people). I understand that kind of frustration, even if you're right not to approve it.

[Chips]

Reaching the point of frustration for someone saying "then enjoy your suffering" doesn't mean he really means it. It happened to me a lot of times, and is going to in the future as well (take as an example the "cancer can be cured with a curry injection" kind of people). I understand that kind of frustration, even if you're right not to approve it.

There are people out there who believe migrants (refugees or other) deserved to die when unfit boats sank while crossing the sea in hope of a better life because "they got into the boat". The indifference and disconnect between caring for people and their lives doesn't just start at that point, it has grown to it. That's about the most extreme expression i've heard over the years, but it's there. How do they end up expressing those opinions?

Over the years I've changed a fair bit as most do when they see/hear things and start to realise. I work on the principal that if we challenge questionable (in my interpretation, maybe others think it's entirely fine - who knows) opinions they're less likely to be reinforced to propagate into extremes (or worse, adopted by others as there's zero counter being raised - echo chamber effect). Of course, it could be *me* that's out of kilter though

To me it read that the dislike (or hate) for a certain political affiliation coloured their attitude towards the plight of those people suffering - young, old, sick or infirm - to "eat your cake". Why? because politics. Literally, politics. If that was a democrat state would the post have been different? I believe it would.

I've no beef with people disagreeing politics of a certain persuasion - that's politics. But to let it affect your attitude towards people - especially in extreme circumstances (i.e.suffering?).

So based upon what I think about questionable opinions being left unchallenged and the potential outcomes that can lead to (i.e. extremes), i'm going to challenge it. It may not be a genuine opinion - but it has been expressed and i believe it should be challenged.

This is just my opinion, people may disagree or not take such stock in it - but I'm not going to bang on about it anymore Point has been made, but this is just why I've laboured it (if you'd wondered).

It's also why sometimes you'll see my posts bring up links challenging certain statements being presented. I don't support the "other side" (I certainly do not ascribe to the "if you don't agree with me you can only be with them / my enemy" that some posters take on), just sometimes try to put some balance into things that seem completely unbalanced and unchallenged.

Since it often seems to be the same posters, I refer back to the reason I posted in this instance... there is a trend.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Reaching the point of frustration for someone saying "then enjoy your suffering" doesn't mean he really means it. It happened to me a lot of times, and is going to in the future as well (take as an example the "cancer can be cured with a curry injection" kind of people). I understand that kind of frustration, even if you're right not to approve it.

There are people out there who believe migrants (refugees or other) deserved to die when unfit boats sank while crossing the sea in hope of a better life because "they got into the boat". The indifference and disconnect between caring for people and their lives doesn't just start at that point, it has grown to it. That's about the most extreme expression i've heard over the years, but it's there. How do they end up expressing those opinions?

Over the years I've changed a fair bit as most do when they see/hear things and start to realise. I work on the principal that if we challenge questionable (in my interpretation, maybe others think it's entirely fine - who knows) opinions they're less likely to be reinforced to propagate into extremes (or worse, adopted by others as there's zero counter being raised - echo chamber effect). Of course, it could be *me* that's out of kilter though

To me it read that the dislike (or hate) for a certain political affiliation coloured their attitude towards the plight of those people suffering - young, old, sick or infirm - to "eat your cake". Why? because politics. Literally, politics. If that was a democrat state would the post have been different? I believe it would.

I've no beef with people disagreeing politics of a certain persuasion - that's politics. But to let it affect your attitude towards people - especially in extreme circumstances (i.e.suffering?).

So based upon what I think about questionable opinions being left unchallenged and the potential outcomes that can lead to (i.e. extremes), i'm going to challenge it. It may not be a genuine opinion - but it has been expressed and i believe it should be challenged.

This is just my opinion, people may disagree or not take such stock in it - but I'm not going to bang on about it anymore Point has been made, but this is just why I've laboured it (if you'd wondered).

It's also why sometimes you'll see my posts bring up links challenging certain statements being presented. I don't support the "other side" (I certainly do not ascribe to the "if you don't agree with me you can only be with them / my enemy" that some posters take on), just sometimes try to put some balance into things that seem completely unbalanced and unchallenged.

Since it often seems to be the same posters, I refer back to the reason I posted in this instance... there is a trend.

I don't say this kind of opinion musn't be challenged, it has to be challenged.
And I think we, as the people, need to do a case-by-case analysis: saying an anti-vax "can / deserves to get ill and suffer" is a lot different from saying "he jumped on that boat, so he can / deserves to drown". It's a matter of choice and - yes - privilege. We have the privilege to choose to or not to get a measles shot. There's noone raping our daughter if we don't.

[RegisterMe]

Well, I sure hope Ted enjoys his mini-break to Cancun whilst his home state freezes over.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Well, I sure hope Ted enjoys his mini-break to Cancun whilst his home state freezes over.

Those mojitos aren't going to be drunk by themselves, it's his institutional duty to go and help them.

[RegisterMe]

Well, I sure hope Ted enjoys his mini-break to Cancun whilst his home state freezes over.

Those mojitos aren't going to be drunk by themselves, it's his institutional duty to go and help them.

I guess he'll have to drink 1776 of them .

[felter]

Just want to point out not once have a said anyone deserves what is happening in Texas I said they I don't feel sorry for them as they have got what they voted for two totally different things.

Same with the 52% vote, I think you have that wrong it's not 52% vote for Republicans it was 52% vote for Trump. Americans vote for the person to be President, not the party. Here in the UK we vote for a party and that party decides who will be Prime Minister, we do not have a say in that. This is one of the reasons Trump wrongly claimed votes were flipped from him to Biden, as a lot of voters voted for the Republican party in the election but when it came for them to vote for the President they voted for Biden or someone else instead, yes there were others, and he can't understand why would they vote for a republican party but not him. As far as he is concerned he is the Republican party so the votes had to have been flipped.

It's not just Texas, it's the whole of America, their whole system is based on greed before need, money always come first, profits are the true god. Even in their religions this is the case and normal Americans lap it up, not just Republicans either, it's the American way. This is what they want, this is how they want it to stay. Remember that 52% voted for Trump not the republican party, even after the last 4 years, they actually think Trump did an amazing job, that the likes of Cruz cares for them, he may represent them buy he doesn't give a damn about them, he has shown and proven that on many an occasions, but they still stick up for him and still vote for him because it's the American way, it's the way they want it to be.

As I said I have not said they deserve it just that they have got what they voted for. It's up to them they have seen what can happen and it will happen again especially if they keep going down the path they have been going down. So when this is all over do you think anything will change do you think they will be prepared for it happening again I doubt it very much as that would mean going against everything they want everything they voted for at the end of the day nothing will change and I cannot feel sorry for them for getting what they wanted. Nobody deserves it but when if it is your lifestyle that has much to blame for it then what. It's up to them for what they take from this experience and what they do about it, I doubt anything will change anytime soon, the summer sun will come back and they will forget all about it till the next time it happens. It's the American way.

[Vertigo 7]

This isn't the first time Texas has faced natural disaster, either. The last hurricane that made landfall in Texas, Harvey I think it was, caused an economic loss well over $150 billion just in the city of Houston. Of course, that didn't devastate the entire state, but, arguably, that disaster was man made since the city all but eliminated any natural way for flood waters to recede and no artificial means were designed in the city's planning.

But, it was all okay. According to Trump, people got free boats that appeared in their back yards.

[pjknibbs]

But, it was all okay. According to Trump, people got free boats that appeared in their back yards.

And presumably more than a few got free swimming pools in their basements as well?

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

But, it was all okay. According to Trump, people got free boats that appeared in their back yards.

And presumably more than a few got free swimming pools in their basements as well?

I see this as an absolute win!

[matthewfarmery]

Finally some good news, and a real blow against Trump.

Trump bid to stop tax record being handed over to New York prosecutors declined by Supreme Court

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 05647.html

seems that the supreme court has been sitting on Trump's tax returns for a while now. or a decision has taken a while But this is a good move. And a real blow to Trump, who probably hoped that his appointed judges will rule in favour for keeping the tax returns hidden. At least now things can move forward.

[Vertigo 7]

The story in Texas gets even better. 10 years ago, to the day of the beginning of the winter storm, Texas state legislatures held hearings on what to do going forward from a winter storm that had an almost identical impact. They knew that the power grid would fail if freezing conditions were to occur again, because they just experienced it, and they chose to do nothing.

Good job, Texas! You guys are really worth looking up to!

[matthewfarmery]

The story in Texas gets even better. 10 years ago, to the day of the beginning of the winter storm, Texas state legislatures held hearings on what to do going forward from a winter storm that had an almost identical impact. They knew that the power grid would fail if freezing conditions were to occur again, because they just experienced it, and they chose to do nothing.

Good job, Texas! You guys are really worth looking up to!

So basically, they only have themselves to blame.

[Vertigo 7]

The story in Texas gets even better. 10 years ago, to the day of the beginning of the winter storm, Texas state legislatures held hearings on what to do going forward from a winter storm that had an almost identical impact. They knew that the power grid would fail if freezing conditions were to occur again, because they just experienced it, and they chose to do nothing.

Good job, Texas! You guys are really worth looking up to!

So basically, they only have themselves to blame.

Yup. And the power companies refused to winterize their infrastructure because it would cost them too much.

The problems go beyond the plants. The transformers and and such on the lines have also catastrophically failed due to ice. Poles have fallen, lines snapped, a whole host of things caused by a cold snap. Paired with the state's desire for "independence", that has the effect of keeping the state's power grid free of federal regulation, means they're dead in the water until the state thaws and they spend billions on replacing failed infrastructure.

And it's not just power. Water lines have frozen and burst all over, destroying homes and businesses.