Trump

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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 16:19

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Thu, 17. Oct 19, 14:12
There always has to be someone at the bottom of the barrel for them to point and laugh and and to blame all of their problems on. With out that, their entire identity shatters.
- the very essence of fascism.. :cry: :cry:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 16:42

BugMeister wrote:
Thu, 17. Oct 19, 16:19
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Thu, 17. Oct 19, 14:12
There always has to be someone at the bottom of the barrel for them to point and laugh and and to blame all of their problems on. With out that, their entire identity shatters.
- the very essence of fascism.. :cry: :cry:
More accurately, neo-facism. Everything there describes Trumpanzies to a "T".
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 17:22

You guys sate side should write to your reps in congress. I just sent this to Rep Palmer:
Dear Congressman Palmer,

I'm writing you today because I'm deeply concerned about the direction our country and political landscape has been moving in for the last 3 years and change. This uprising of ultra nationalism and frankly policy favoring racism from the White House has got to stop. Being a patriot does not mean disparaging human beings that don't have it as well off as we do. The American people are better than that, and our government must reflect that.

We are teetering on the brink of shifting our government from a democracy to one that embodies neo-facism. The President's actions are a clear shift in that direction under the guise of patriotism. His sycophants stand up and cheer as our government crumbles beneath his feet.

Our country was not built on hate. It was built on a desire for freedom. Policies from the White House that deny freedoms to any individual (barring criminal conviction) do not reflect the integrity of our country or the intent of the Constitution.

I'm begging you, as one American citizen to another, please help stop this madness. Rebuke this president, help return honor to our country and give our allies around the world reason again to be proud to have us at their side.

If you don't take a stand now, you are opening the door for the next president, regardless of their political alignment, to ignore congress and act as they please without fear of consequence.

Not only that, the more isolated we are from our allies provides opportunity for Russia, North Korea, and whoever else that thinks they have may have a shot to attack us on our own soil. While I don't doubt the capabilities of our on military to defend this nation, would it not be better for us and the world at large to deter that before it happens? We need our allies as much as they need us. We are stronger together than we are apart.

I urge you to consider what tomorrow may bring if you fail to act now.

Thank you for your time.
I'm sure the Trumpanzies will point and laugh, but idgaf. I've got nothing to loose by trying and I highly doubt they could have any meaningful rebuttal. Just more of the same hate rhetoric they're so fond of spewing.

Anywho, you guys should and encourage others to do the same. https://www.house.gov/representatives
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Re: Trump

Post by Bishop149 » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 17:41

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Thu, 17. Oct 19, 17:22
You guys sate side should write to your reps in congress. I just sent this to Rep Palmer:
I applaud you for making the attempt but if it's this guy I wouldn't hold out very much hope.
Looks like a wrong'un

I recently listened to a sci-fi podcast (Escape Pod for those interested) who latest story (Martian Chronicles by Cory Doctorow*) contained the following passage, which summarised the core issue with Right-libertarianism thinking rather nicely I think.
“No, Dave. I do get it. Do you know what cognitive dissonance is?”

We’d studied it in school, but I hadn’t paid a lot of attention.

“It’s like when you believe something and the facts don’t agree with it.”

“That’s right. So say, for example, that you believe that the world is fair, but when you look around it, you see that you have so very much more than everyone else.” I could see where this was going. I began to walk away, but he floated and skipped after me, continuing to talk. “So you have cognitive dissonance. How can the world be fair if you have more than everyone else? It must be fair for you to have more, then, right? And how can that be? It can only be if you are better than everyone else — and everyone else is therefore worse than you ”
*The political bent of this story should come as no surprise to anyone with any familiarity with Doctorow, also the story of how this story came to be named as what it is is kinda interesting too.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 18:08

It may well be futile of me to try to get him to see reason, but as I said, I've got nothing to loose in the attempt and everything to gain if there is even the slightest bit of acknowledgement on the side of the congressman.
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 19:57

You should have also pointed out if they don't do something, there is a good chance they will loose the next election no matter who the Dems put up for the post of President. Their own polls are showing that is what is going to happen. Even Mitch McConnell, the polls from his home-state are showing he is in a pretty bad position right now and that he probably won't be elected in the next election. The way things are going, the next Presidential election is going to be a whitewash and not for the Republicans, even though that is their favourite colour.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 20:23

I've said before, I'm not a republican or a democrat. While I do take sides with democrats on a good bit lately, I really don't care which side is in office. What I do care about is that whichever side has it, has someone of worthy caliber to hold the position. This extremest authoritarian holier than thou garbage in the WH today is completely counter productive and has done nothing but bitterly divide the nation and alienated us from our allies, to say nothing of the flagrant abuse of power and flaunting of the law. What continues to blow me away is how the republicans are so willfully blind to it. I can't even begin to imagine what the republican response to a democrat president behaving like Trump would be, but you can bet the reaction would be extreme. The sheer hypocrisy of the GOP just has me dumbfounded. It's the most unpatriotic behavior out of our leaders since the civil war.
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Re: Trump

Post by Tycow » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 20:51

In other totally not corrupt behaviour news:

Trump has directed that the next G7 summit be held at a Trump resort in Florida.

But he won't profit from it. :lol:

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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 22:13

Well now the WH chief of staff has admitted the Trump call was totally a quid pro quo and suggested everyone "get over it"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... -n1068256/

These guys have lost their ****** minds.
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Re: Trump

Post by Santi » Thu, 17. Oct 19, 22:38

Seems to me that there is much misinformation regarding the present conflict between Turkey and Kurds. Personally my sympathies are with the Kurds as they have been shafted many times, especially after the failed treaty of Sèvres and the consequent treaty of Lausanne.

For the current situation we must start with the Syrian Civil War, at the onset of the war Kurds acted on their own interest, they fought the Damascus government and the Free Syrian Army/Islamic brigades/ISIL to gain control over the territories where Kurds were present in order to create an autonomous region, basically they did follow the same strategy that Iraqi Kurds did in taking advantage of the current conflict to create their own country.

Apart from initial support for some veted rebel groups, the USA formed an international coalition (Canada, Turkey, UK, France, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc..) to support those groups that were fighting the Islamic State, at the start mostly bombardements, shortly after, the frictions between Turkey and the USA started to appear as Turkey was against supplying arms and ammunitions to the Kurdish forces, especially the YPG that has close ties to the PKK that has been fighting Turkish to gain independence for Turkish Kurdistán.

After the siege of Kobani Kurdish troops started to receive more materiel from the USA in exchange for fighting ISIL, something that did fit with their own strategy of linking with the Kurd territories in Iraq in order to create a Grand Kurdistan. That was a red line for Turkey as that could destabilize their own Kurdish territories currently under an uneasy truce, in could also awaken nationalist sentiment on Iranian Kurds (that do not share the idea of a Grand Kurdistan). Here is where the USA and Turkey broke consensus and Turkey started to heavily interviene to avoid Kurds linking with operations on Iraq, where it has troops and training of Syrian rebels to retake Kurd territories in the name of Free Syria (Turkey). Current situation is something that was going to happen, either Syria government with Russia/Iranian support will attack them, or Turkey will.

To finalize USA was never supporting the formation of an independent Kurdistan territory, they were allies in terms of fighting ISIL, but never to defend a Kurdish autonomous region, furthermore when first plans to scale down the USA military presence in those territories were made, the USA requested to the coalition allies to provide troops to cover for American ones going home, all refused. People asking for America to enter an armed conflict with Turkey, both in NATO, seems surreal. With roughly 2000 troops on the ground if such, America has no leverage whatsoever over what Turkey wants to do.

More curious is that because Trump is the one doing the pull out, now all the world is in favour of American interventionism in other countries, probably because it has worked so well in the past...
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 02:44

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Thu, 17. Oct 19, 22:13
Well now the WH chief of staff has admitted the Trump call was totally a quid pro quo and suggested everyone "get over it"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... -n1068256/

These guys have lost their ****** minds.
That is so comically funny. HEY we broke the law and we are going to do it again, so get over it already. :lol:

I suppose, for once they are being honest. So now we sit back and see just how much of a backbone and integrity the Republicans actually have.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 04:12

felter wrote:
Fri, 18. Oct 19, 02:44
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Thu, 17. Oct 19, 22:13
Well now the WH chief of staff has admitted the Trump call was totally a quid pro quo and suggested everyone "get over it"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... -n1068256/

These guys have lost their ****** minds.
That is so comically funny. HEY we broke the law and we are going to do it again, so get over it already. :lol:

I suppose, for once they are being honest. So now we sit back and see just how much of a backbone and integrity the Republicans actually have.
Of course, now he's back pedaling and saying he was misheard. More "What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening" Jedi mind tricks.
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 04:44

LOL even better. I EH I mean you misheard me earlier, so just forget whatever it was I said as I didn't actually say it.

Someone pointed out to him, while he may have sold Trump out, he also admitted to committing a crime that he can go to jail for. While Trump will just loose his job over it, he will loose everything. He's an idiot just like his boss.

Meanwhile Rick Perry has quit his job at the energy department, Trump said:
"He's [Rick Perry] been outstanding and we already have his replacement, Rick has done a fantastic job at energy.

"But it was time, three years is a long time, and he'll be leaving towards the end of the year."
No 3 years is not a long time, it's just 3 years is a long time to have worked for Trump, most don't make it that long.
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 04:51

Bishop149 wrote:
Thu, 17. Oct 19, 17:41
I recently listened to a sci-fi podcast (Escape Pod for those interested) who latest story (Martian Chronicles by Cory Doctorow*) contained the following passage, which summarised the core issue with Right-libertarianism thinking rather nicely I think.
“No, Dave. I do get it. Do you know what cognitive dissonance is?”

We’d studied it in school, but I hadn’t paid a lot of attention.

“It’s like when you believe something and the facts don’t agree with it.”

“That’s right. So say, for example, that you believe that the world is fair, but when you look around it, you see that you have so very much more than everyone else.” I could see where this was going. I began to walk away, but he floated and skipped after me, continuing to talk. “So you have cognitive dissonance. How can the world be fair if you have more than everyone else? It must be fair for you to have more, then, right? And how can that be? It can only be if you are better than everyone else — and everyone else is therefore worse than you ”
*The political bent of this story should come as no surprise to anyone with any familiarity with Doctorow, also the story of how this story came to be named as what it is is kinda interesting too.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 05:11

You know what, I'm going to write every senator, every representative and ask for a tax increase just to spite you.

http://chng.it/pCtSytQS
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Re: Trump

Post by Bishop149 » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 10:05

Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 18. Oct 19, 04:51
You are free to give as much of your own money away as you like at any time you choose to do it.
Thanks! I do.
Also the money I don't get a choice in giving away (my taxes) amounts to far less than you (or your employer . . . a cost they, of course, reflect in your wages) have to pay for the same level of benefit!
Socialised public services are brilliant if like having more money available to do with as you will once the necessities are paid for (assuming you aren't a millionaire. . . who'd barely notice anyway).

@Santi
I don't think its been that heavily misrepresnted.
The US chose to take a prominent role involving itself militarily in an area of well-known high regional tension, with an absolute wealth of history to learn from.
It did so because it was advantageous for the US to do so at that specific point in history.
It is irresponsible and selfish in the extreme, to simply pull out wholesale once that advantage starts to wane and take no responsibility for the destabilising influence you've exerted.
But you're right, it is a little disingenuous to pin this excessively on Trump. . . . this kind of self-interested irresponsible BS has formed the basis of US foreign policy for three quarters of a century.

The anti-interventionist argument would be: "The US shouldn't have involved itself in the first place" which does not just pivot to "Meh, they should just get out however!" if the reasons behind the first argument were just ignored and they did it anyway. No, it becomes; "Well, you foolishly chose to involve yourself in this situation. You now have to shoulder the responsibility inherent in that decision. We told you so!"
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Re: Trump

Post by Grim Lock » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 12:15

And also, the US still could have told it's allies: "hey we are done with this shit, we're puling out, someone else is gonna have to finish the job" and given it's allies and ultimatum of two weeks or something to come up with an idea to fill the void, they didn't not, they just pulled out suddenly leaving everyone dissatisfied :roll:

And mind you i totally agree with the fact that Europe is way too dependant on the US when it comes to military interventions, after now having seen what a banana-republic the US actually is, I would very much prefer them not to be the lead in anything that is of influence to global stability.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 13:58

Trump's decision to withdraw wasn't discussed or debated among his staff or with the DOD. It was ordered moments after his call with Erodgan ended and took everyone by surprise. I doubt we'll ever know the real reason for this, but "we never should have been there" is definitely not something Trump would truly care about.
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 14:51

It's a 100% Trump issue, not the original issue but the current one most certainly is. He was not advised by anyone to pull those troops out, he was actually advised not to do it, that the Kurds, their allies would be massacred if he did do it, but he did it all the same. you then have to look at what he did with 1800 troops the exact same amount he pulled out of Syria, he sent them to Saudi Arabia to protect oil fields in a country that does not need outside military assistance as it has a massive military of it's very own. So he removed 1800 troops that were protecting the lives of people, both young and old, to protect oil that doesn't need American protection. Nope he is 100% to blame.
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Fri, 18. Oct 19, 15:10

This is pretty good and funny as General James Mattis mocks trump
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