Trump

[BugMeister]

can't be bothered with the rest of your last post..
- but this sticks out like a sore thumb:

an unelected body bypassing Congress.

- please explain..

[Masterbagger]

It is a scare tactic and would not stand in an unbiased court.

Do I get this right, you are defending Trump and accusing others of using scare tactics, while he was in the rose garden trying to justify what he was doing by saying things like America was being invaded by drug dealers, gangs and murders and that a wall will stop this from happening, and you are accusing others of scare tactics, are you totally insane or what.

Sanctimony is not an argument. Human and drug trafficking is intolerable and every effort should be made to combat them. Border sectors that have constructed a barrier have drastically less arrests after. Prove me wrong. Do it without changing the goalposts or appealing to emotion if you can.

[BugMeister]

..and an elephant is not a pepper-pot..
- as for your subsequent point - it is Trump's responsibility to provide the evidence you appear to be seeking..

[Grim Lock]

Lol prove to us the wall works, and if you can do that, prove that a national emergency is the only tool to build one.

Or even better, prove to us Trump doesn't lie about the numbers and dangers involved.

Lol i can't even begin to imagine how long this list could get if put in some actual effort!

[Masterbagger]

can't be bothered with the rest of your last post..
- but this sticks out like a sore thumb:

an unelected body bypassing Congress.

- please explain..

Take your own time out of your criticism and daily leftist propaganda posting to familiarize yourself with the workings our of judiciary branch.

Lol prove to us the wall works, and if you can do that, prove that a national emergency is the only tool to build one.

Or even better, prove to us Trump doesn't lie about the numbers and dangers involved.

Lol i can't even begin to imagine how long this list could get if put in some actual effort!

Why is the onus of proof solely on me? Can you not search the internets as well as I? I have said before that border sectors that built a wall had less arrests after. Prove me wrong. If what you want to be true actually is then it should take moments. I don't think it is and I want you to experience data that conflicts with your opinion.

[fiksal]

Lol prove to us the wall works, and if you can do that, prove that a national emergency is the only tool to build one.

I want to caution you guys about sliding into children's arguments.


The "wall works" - sure thing. So does a chair, a pan, a keyboard, a brick, a window frame, even a rock works. Literally everything "works" this way.

... What else works that might be of interest : a plane, a boat, a tunnel, an expired visa also works as a cup coaster.


What does it have to do with the national emergency? You guessed it - nothing. Coincidentally that is also the same amount that the border security have to do with the emergency.

[Observe]

...an expired visa also works as a cup coaster.

Yes, around 700,000 "visitors" to the U.S. overstay their visitor visa's each year. A wall won't put a dent in that. Indeed, I expect a wall will only increase the amount of legal crossings with illegal intent.

What does it have to do with the national emergency? You guessed it - nothing.

Even Trump admitted this is not an emergency by saying that he didn't have to do it all - except he wanted to expedite the process. We will see how declaring a fake emergency will play out with the legislature and courts.

How does separation of powers apply if President Trump is trying to enforce laws already voted in by Congress and signed? He isn't creating new laws.

If I ever need someone to defend the indefensible, I'll look you up. Until then, I have no interest in playing your games. Consider yourself dismissed.

[Masterbagger]

If I ever need someone to defend the indefensible, I'll look you up. Until then, I have no interest in playing your games. Consider yourself dismissed.

I elected Donald J. Trump as your President of my own free will. You don't have the luxury of ignoring me. You have to face reality even if you fervently hate it.

[BugMeister]

can't be bothered with the rest of your last post..
- but this sticks out like a sore thumb:

an unelected body bypassing Congress.

- please explain..

Take your own time out of your criticism and daily leftist propaganda posting to familiarize yourself with the workings our of judiciary branch.

- but, I don't need to..
- I'm merely assuming that they are not an "unelected body by-passing Congress" - as you report in your reply..
- I had hoped that you'd elucidate, is all - it's a fair question from someone who prefers to believe in the principles of probity in government, isn't it..?
- merely calling me uninformed and politically biased, doesn't really provide an answer - does it?

- how do you know that they are an "unelected body by-passing Congress" - have you seen evidence of this..??
- if you have such evidence, then surely you'd be willing to share it, wouldn't you.. thus strengthening your proposal?
- no offence, but you are the one trying to make the point - are you not..??

meanwhile here is ample evidence of Trump's complete and utter idiocy..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEcNMir6aSs
..even by his own admission - he is a stupid narcissistic liar
- he certainly knows more about boasting than anybody I know - I'll give him that much at least..

- impeach the lunatic..!!
- the 25th and a sound-proof rubber room is the only solution..

[Usenko]

How many national emergencies did Obama declare? A dozen? And none of the terrifying stuff you promise happened. Same thing under Bush. And Clinton too. You are fearmongering. You are promoting hysteria and you should stop.

Obama declared 13.

However, from an outside observation, the idea of declaring an emergency to get funding for something as questionable as Trump's Wall is ridiculous.

(and remember - I'm a conservative from Australia, a fairly conservative country by world standards, so I am your best case scenario. I'm the most sympathetic observer you're likely to get. Granted I know that many Americans foolishly think that they're isolated from the good will or disapproval of other countries, but economically and diplomatically this is just not the case).

[Grim Lock]

Lol prove to us the wall works, and if you can do that, prove that a national emergency is the only tool to build one.

I want to caution you guys about sliding into children's arguments.


The "wall works" - sure thing. So does a chair, a pan, a keyboard, a brick, a window frame, even a rock works. Literally everything "works" this way.

... What else works that might be of interest : a plane, a boat, a tunnel, an expired visa also works as a cup coaster.


What does it have to do with the national emergency? You guessed it - nothing. Coincidentally that is also the same amount that the border security have to do with the emergency.

Yeah, you're right, for me that post was a 04:00 so i wasn't exactly at best (and my best pales to some of the debating skills of some of you (not you masterbagger)

In my mind it was like: A stupid question gets asked, i respond with equally stupid question and point out i could go on forever, thus showing there's no point in asking stupid question. LOL i can see now that i wouldn't come across as such!

But indeed why would i bother with the evidince for Masterbagger, he voted someone into office that despite every statistic etc showing otherwise, said that unemployment was the highest ever and that crime was the worst ever too, and he explicitly said the statistics where bogus. So evidence is as useless here as it is in a debate about religion.

f.e. I could bring up the fact how far the Netherlands is removed from countries that produce cocaine and heroine, and how the majority of that finds its way to our country over water. I could point that we produce the most XTC in the world, and that you can even find Dutch XTC in the US. And back that up with numbers (well apart from finding dutch xtc in the US, that's based on an experience a few friends of mine had), but that's besides the point, most of us are somewhat familiar with the statistics involved with the Mexcian border, and some of you are able of making a neat list of sources linking to those statistics, but it doesn't matter Trump voters have given a clear signal from the start that they don't deal in facts, they deal in belief.

[BugMeister]

this man is unfit for public office - observe his lunacy here, at close quarters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QpNBl6ZhTw

- a meaningless ramble of utter tripe and nonsense - lies and BS from start to finish
- he flounders helplessly from topic to topic and ultimately says nothing of any consequence..
- this is a man of extremely low intellect - bordering sub-normal - riddled with hatred and resentment..
- he's unstable, and prone to fantastical outbursts..

at this point, Mitch McConnell should examine his own motives, and take stock of his position within the Republican Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi7zs5K0n78

[RegisterMe]

I have a feeling that even those well minded, non-racist, sensible Republicans who genuinely support Trump's policies and believe that his government is competent are going to struggle to bring up the massive hairball of criminality that is the Trump campaign and administration.

Because it's either that or choke on it.

EDIT: I've just re-read that and realised that it might have come across as a piss take. It's not meant to be. Whilst I disagree with their positions and policy beliefs I do believe that such people exist.

[Mightysword]

How many national emergencies did Obama declare? A dozen? And none of the terrifying stuff you promise happened. Same thing under Bush. And Clinton too. You are fearmongering. You are promoting hysteria and you should stop.

Obama declared 13.

However, from an outside observation, the idea of declaring an emergency to get funding for something as questionable as Trump's Wall is ridiculous.

The thing is about the "narrative". See, even as of today Obama is still regarded as Mr. Nice Guy when it comes to immigrants, his administration actually deported the record number of people. Most people would regard General Patton as an arshole when dealing with his soldier because of how the media at the time headlining the slapping incident, and that cemented his status in public eyes. Whether in reality, Patton while is a demanding boss, he was also very caring about those under his command, and during the entire duration of WW2, Patton only sacked one of his staff. On the other hand, Mr. Nice Guy general Bradley (again, it's because that's the figure the media built for the mass) routinely sacked many of his staffs. Or like how Republican was trying to sell Obama usage of Executive orders toward the end of his presidency (because their congress was stonewalling him) as overstepping authority, while the fact Bush did the samething, and likewise we saw Democrat played the same game with Trump. So on and so for, the history book is littered with example for those care enough to read

If you ask me should Trump declare an emergency over the wall, then my answer is no he shouldn't. But among the chorus of the "OMG HE DECLARED AN EMERGENCY", I'm willingly to bet half of the people in it are not quite aware what an emergency is, or the fact that our nation declare something like that routinely. My attitude toward range from "what of it" to "we'll see what come of it". And if that's a little too apathetic for anyone here, you can blame it on the jade effect of "the boy who cry wolf". People has been yelling at their loud speaker and torture my eardrum even since before Trump took office, and that we're facing impending dooms. And they have been doing this religiously, daily, on day Trump does something and even on days he doesn't do anything. I always think even if half of things people claim about Trump is as bad, or even a third of what the doomsayers about Trump are true ... I probably wouldn't have the luxury sitting here in my home and talk with you all.

Say what you want about Trump and antic, people's reaction to his action is just as amusing (or bemusing), routine, and predictable. In short, they tend to amount to a whole lot of ... nothing. In a lot of these, things matter not because they are really matter, it matters because people want it to matter only now - per the convenience of their narrative.

On the bright side, now this theatrical is entering a new act with Trump declaring a national emergency, I'm eagerly awaiting what the UK gonna cook up over the weekend in their own play of Brexit. I doubt our brothers and sisters over the Atlantic will sit down and let us outshit them without a response. Don't let me down now, I'm a man who always want entertainment

[Observe]

I am for taking down the existing walls and not putting up any new ones. For one thing, they are relatively ineffective at solving any of the associated problems. As such, I am opposed to allocating valuable resources for a cause that our country is divided over. Let the legislature do their job of determining where and how much money goes to what. Sure, the President can have an opinion and try to lead one way or the other, but it is not his job to bypass Congress. Again, by Trump's own admission, this is not an emergency. He said he didn't need to do it, but went ahead to hurry along a pet project. This is not how our system is supposed to work.

Will I lose any sleep if a wall is build? No. Will I lose any sleep if global warming continues unabated and modern farming methods cause all insects to go extinct and thereby end human kind? No. There weren't any insects in the beginning, so I presume our planet can create more of them in a new cycle. Personally, I'll die soon enough, so none of it makes any difference to me in the end. It's all just the dance of life weaving its fabric over eternity.

Does my sentiment mean that I should just sit under a tree and rot? No. I have a sense of a certain responsibility to all life, while I am part of it. Therefore, the loss of species due to human greed and ignorant destruction, concerns me. Likewise, it concerns me, when I walk down the street with my Native American wife and see the scowls of bigotry in the gaze of hateful strangers. All these things and more, cause me to think that our current economic, social and political systems are rotten to the core and should be ejected into the inferno of oblivion - along with this pathetic notion of a wall.

[BugMeister]

the lunatic is in the hall..
the lunatic is on the grass..

The President picks his next hate project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEIEJXRyqa0

- the Duterte approach..
- what an incredible fool this man is..

[Morkonan]

Sanctimony is not an argument. Human and drug trafficking is intolerable and every effort should be made to combat them. Border sectors that have constructed a barrier have drastically less arrests after. Prove me wrong. Do it without changing the goalposts or appealing to emotion if you can.

This is... Dude, this is all just drivel. Where are you getting this stuff from? It's not a personal attack against you. I just don't understand why someone who can manage to cook a steak like you can would end up running afoul of all this... stuff.

First, you can gain support for whatever you want if you maintain that "the unthinkable" will happen if you don't get such support. Heck, you can even make unfounded claims and use them for justifying whatever you want to justify. That is what Trump has been doing by manufacturing crises out of thin air.

Of course, if I don't think we should build a wall, then I must be in favor of human and drug trafficking, right? /sigh

A wall is not going to stop those things. The only thing a wall might effect is the illegal trafficking of marijuana. Why? Because it's bulky, stinks, is difficult to package and transport without detection, that's why. That's it. And, even if there was a wall, they'd probably build yet another submarine or pack it into a ship or shipping container. I'm not saying that "resistance is futile." I'm saying that while we're pointing at the wall and proclaiming it good, they'll be coming in like they always do - The front door.

"Prove me wrong." Well, where's your evidence. Is it the "El Paso" story? Crime in El Paso started dropping BEFORE the wall there was built... Where's your claim of cause-and-effect now if that's the argument you're using to support your claim?

FactCheck.org - Trump El Paso Rally

The FBI doesn't agree with Trump's assertions, so he claims they're using "doctored" data... WTF?

Human Trafficking is pretty simple and usually carried out the same way up to a point. In the case with prostitution, it's even simpler - A likely victim is found, things are promised that induce them to go somewhere, when they get there they are then powerless, without any support, often their illegally so they can't appeal to authorities, and then they're forced into prostitution. A "wall" is not going to do a darn thing. Women aren't being tied up, gagged, and forced to march through the empty deserte at gunpoint in order to serve as prostitutes in the US. That's BS. They're being promised jobs or being lured by someone they think loves them. And then, they find out the horrible truth -They were just sold to someone and now they're a slave.

But, of course, if someone claims something terrible is happening and they alone have the solution, they'll get a lot of people supporting them who don't understand that their solution is nothing more than luring in unsuspecting victims...

Trump is trying to build a "wall" so he can point to it as an achievement and he'll create as many "victims" as is necessary. He'll lie to them. He'll convince them that a false reward awaits them and all they have to do is this one little thing. When it's done, he'll use the proceeds from that to leverage his power-base and all his claims of "doing good" and stopping human and drug trafficking and solving the violent crime problem (?) will just be that much more BS. But, there will be the monument of a wall to testify to his "accomplishment" still, right? Must be significant.. It must mean something. After all, it's so big. So very big that it must be a big thing. Biggest.

He wants to build the wall so he can claim it as a victory in both his achievements at combating "crime", making the US "more secure" and following through on his campaign promises. Yeah.. I want good tasting, creamy, delicious, calorie-free ice-cream, too, but that ain't the reality of the world in which we live.

PS - I have stated many times over the years - A true nation must maintain its sovereignty. I have stated this in multiple threads and in many different ways, but all ending with the fact that a nation must maintain its sovereignty and must control the area within the borders it lays claim to. (Targeting a search should turn them up easily enough, going back a number of years.) I have always maintained the appropriateness of this basic principle of statecraft. Always. Yet, I still believe that building a "Wall" on our Southern Border is a monumentally stupid and wrong-headed idea. Take that for what it's worth. I feel it is the wrong approach and will not yield the desired results nor will it be "for the Greater Good" of our People to do so.

[BugMeister]

OH YEAH, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN..!!

the whole Trump family are a bunch of hateful money-grabbing creeps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpPaAUFNdNk
Don Jr doing his Biff impression, yet again - he obviously learnt nothing at school..

Manafort, Cohen et al. in prison..
Pence lurking around like the skeleton at the feast..
silently stupid, while all around him lie and cheat
- right under his self-righteous nose..

against all logic, political expediency is blatantly being used
as the reason (??) for imposing a National Emergency,
an obvious and outrageous abuse of the law - and also of the powers of presidential office..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4jXaMYxWBk

Wilbur and the Replicants hiding under rocks, covered in corruption and slime
plotting conspiracy theories and smear campaigns against democracy itself..
while expounding and promoting a through-the-looking-glass future, where all is ethical purity and light
a world blighted only by the undeserving poor and sick, who tear at their empty amoral consciences

- and all this, while compromised judges pass sentence on manufactured dissent..??

ROLL UP, ROLL UP - MAKE AMERICA GREAT, OH YEAH..
- kick out the jams, ffs..

[BugMeister]

Mitch and his missus practice their tax-avoidance skills:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVy2XGiC9Xo
- compromised, bought and paid for..
- McConnell takes credit for giving tax-breaks to the ultra wealthy

Pence practises crass hypocrisy, by seeking to promote war abroad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7gIz1pvh-c
- compromised and corrupted, Pence apparently the doyen of the Khristians

Lindsey Graham flip-flops like a fish out of water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFsgLeYafIk
- like little kids squabbling in public..

[Masterbagger]

PS - I have stated many times over the years - A true nation must maintain its sovereignty. I have stated this in multiple threads and in many different ways, but all ending with the fact that a nation must maintain its sovereignty and must control the area within the borders it lays claim to. (Targeting a search should turn them up easily enough, going back a number of years.) I have always maintained the appropriateness of this basic principle of statecraft. Always. Yet, I still believe that building a "Wall" on our Southern Border is a monumentally stupid and wrong-headed idea. Take that for what it's worth. I feel it is the wrong approach and will not yield the desired results nor will it be "for the Greater Good" of our People to do so.

These are the border patrol arrest stats.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files ... FY2017.pdf

We added fence, more manpower, and more technology in some places in 2006. The impression I get from the places that build up the border like Yuma, San Diego and El Paso is that the illegal alien traffic is diverting around them and crossing where it is easier. It looks to me like illegal immigrants are taking the paths of least resistance. I have no doubts that the increased number of officers and use of cameras and other sensors is playing a huge part toward apprehending illegal aliens. I think the physical barriers we have built in those places are also a factor. We don't have an effective fence meant to keep people out on most of our border. We built it up in some places and others it is just a barrier for vehicles that a motivated individual can get over or under. That needs to be addressed.

There are a whole mess of reasons why illegals are coming here and an equal mess of things that could be done to mitigate them. You wanted to stabilize the countries those claiming asylum are from. It is in our best interests in the future not to have more failed States like Venezuela crumbling in our backyard. I'm going to suggest that one of the many reasons illegals are showing up in such numbers is that it is easy. I think any other solution to combat illegal immigration or combination of them is going to be less effective as long as it is easy to get across the border. I'm seeing that places that have been successful in driving down illegal crossings have used border walls as part of that effort.