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Morkonan
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Tue, 11. Dec 18, 07:05

pjknibbs wrote:
Tue, 11. Dec 18, 06:21
Since we're talking about what makes someone suitable for the office of President, while I don't think that Trump's (lack of) business acumen has anything to do with the job he's doing, it does echo the main reason people voted for him--because he's not a career politician. I'm personally all for that--I think being in politics as a career all your life insulates you from what the man on the street experiences and makes it impossible for you to properly represent them. However, this rather implies that the non-political career you've had doesn't *also* insulate you from the experiences of the man in the street, and with Trump, we're talking a guy who shits in a gold toilet. He's as out of touch with the common man as any career politician.
That's a good point. And, we saw that in the election and here, in this thread. There are other very ephemeral, hard to define, qualities or actions that people screamed at rallies, too.

"Make America Great Again" - Uh... That's defining a condition that is likely being misdefined to begin with, then posing a problem that isn't in evidence and announcing you have a solution to it. "Grumpkins are coming to rape your household pets! I WILL SAVE YOUR PRECIOUS KITTY FROM TEH GRUMPKIN SCOURGE!" I'm a 'Murican, so I thought America was pretty great to start with and any problems we had weren't because we weren't "great."

"Drain the Swamp" - I loved that one. It's like saying "Get rid of government by electing people to government!" Or, "Let's have an election that is just like every other election and we'll not change anything at all about how we decide who we're going to vote for, but we will surely expect them to be different." Well, Trump is different, that's for sure. So, maybe it wasn't such a crazy thing to expect? But... It's like inviting Genghis Khan to your Group Therapy Session "just to change things up and maybe get us started on a healthier subject we can all related to..."

"We want a Common Man" - That's sort of what you're talking about. But, people wanted someone who wasn't steeped in politics, but didn't seem to care much about why they wanted that or what qualities that person should have. It was just "Anyone who isn't entrenched in Washington politics." ie: We want something different. "Jelly Belly" makes an earwax flavored jelly-bean, but I don't want to eat one. I want a nice, comfy, encouraging flavor. Something wholesome that reminds me of Summers during my childhood. Brandy? A nice single-malt whiskey flavor? Definitely not "Coor's Light" flavor as it doesn't have a flavor, so I don't remember what it tasted like. It was... wet. That's all I remember of it. :)

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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Tue, 11. Dec 18, 12:42

re that Magnitsky Act thing - y'know, the Carry On Sanctions movie - brilliant cameo performance by Ronald MacDonald Putin as Mr Big-ski..
seems that SMERSH agent Maria Buttina has been dallying with a shady James Bond-like character - a Mr Erikson via the Not Really American group (- otherwise known as NRA)
in 2015/16 the Not Really Americans received a sudden unexplained injection of "kash" toward their lobbying funds - a three-fold increase to $30 million.. mostly received as hidden donations..
- Ms Buttina is now taking tea with a certain Mr Mueller.. while her boss, the mysterious Mr Torshin, has suddenly "retired" from his executive position with a large and somewhat slushy USSR bank..

- hmmm, mystery donations, slushy banks, Miss whiplash and her dopey boyfriend, a crooked politician (or three).. makes for a good spy movie, what.. (??)
- ever wonder why the rifle-rattling McConnell tribe of misfiring Replicant robots have been so quiet about the evil invasion of red-ski's..??

- the new movie in the series is Carry On Lying, starring Sid James as Dogger Drumpf, a rogue cockney cab-driver moonlighting in New York City..
- more popcorn..!!

- an advanced satellite has been dropped near Terran space, it is relaying trade offers to space-truckers..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ1aTRS2-cY

- Argon Federation commissioners are investigating recent Split activity in Hatikvah's Faith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZLN81RXmg

- meanwhile science news: a deep-space satellite launched in 1960 playing pop radio muzak to the galaxy has suddenly ceased playing - the Kha'ak have issued a denial..
- the Boron Envoy continues to insist that the worst peace-time crime is potential treason, apparently without defining the parameters of "potential"..
- contact has been made with Teladi high command and negotiations indicate that it's total corruption from here on - so. business as usual..

- the truth is out there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record
Having realized their error, psycho-historian Hari Seldon has advised that we should send a retrieval ship to recover the disc..
- building is under way..

..quick,nurse - the screens..!! :lol:
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 00:04

- the lunatic is in the hall..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6muSIqgnWbg

- he's gonna take the ball home, if we don't let him play.. :lol:
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Re: Trump

Post by Santi » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 02:52

pjknibbs wrote:
Tue, 11. Dec 18, 06:21
Since we're talking about what makes someone suitable for the office of President, while I don't think that Trump's (lack of) business acumen has anything to do with the job he's doing, it does echo the main reason people voted for him--because he's not a career politician. I'm personally all for that--I think being in politics as a career all your life insulates you from what the man on the street experiences and makes it impossible for you to properly represent them. However, this rather implies that the non-political career you've had doesn't *also* insulate you from the experiences of the man in the street, and with Trump, we're talking a guy who shits in a gold toilet. He's as out of touch with the common man as any career politician.
Career politicians take for granted that tax payers will fund not only their lifestyle but also their careers. While politicians will hire staff with the promise of influence and political power, an outsider like Trump, coming from the private industry, will hire based in results.

Also compare Trump with Macron, easy to spot who knows what people wants.
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 04:14

So I haven't been paying much attention to Trump for some time now, so I don't actually know what is going on in Trumpland. So earlier on tonight I caught a small part of the G20 summit that recently happened and I have to say, I was totally surprised (not) that Trump was shunned by every major world leader on the planet, well 19 of them. It was kind of funny to watch and see him standing up on a stage, in the middle of all of these so called important people, and not one of them wanted anything to do with him, as they went around shaking each others hands and patting one another on the backs and not one of them wanted anything to do with Trump.

So it has only taken him less than 3 years to isolate America from the rest of the world, where 3 years ago everyone wanted to be America's friend, to now where no one wants to be associated with them. That's pretty well going, it's not an easy thing to do.

Is it also true that GM are for laying off somewhere in the region of 15,000 employees. Wasn't GM one of Trumps big thriving companies that he was always ranting on about hiring new employees and doing great things under his presidential leadership, what's he saying now.

So I take it things are not going his way right now.
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 17:49

felter wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 04:14
...So it has only taken him less than 3 years to isolate America from the rest of the world, where 3 years ago everyone wanted to be America's friend, to now where no one wants to be associated with them. That's pretty well going, it's not an easy thing to do.
While I agree with criticizing Trump's "Foreign Policy," which appears to be a gumball machine of "turn the crank and who knows what you'll get" I don't agree we're "isolated" because of the cold-shoulders and social-pariah effect he had at the conference. That's obviously an overt display of displeasure at his actions/tactics/speeches. But, we're still doing stuff with our allies, still trading with people, still have embassies and are still talking with other nations.

In short - Trump sucks, but this was just a "cold shoulder" treatment so observers could see that other world leaders were not pleased with Trump. And, of course, to let Trump know they weren't pleased with him. I'm not sure he noticed...
Is it also true that GM are for laying off somewhere in the region of 15,000 employees. Wasn't GM one of Trumps big thriving companies that he was always ranting on about hiring new employees and doing great things under his presidential leadership, what's he saying now.
Yeah. He had spoken to them and made a Deal! A DEAL! Wow, a DEAL just like in the title of "his" book... Nice "Deal," Trump. AFAIK, none of the major companies has done much of anything that Trump promised they would do with the extra savings in taxes. Now, don't get me wrong - I am in favor of the corporate tax breaks! BUT, I didn't believe for a second these companies would do the things that Trump said they would. At least, not immediately. That was never something I though would happen. I do, however, believe it is a good move for the long-term and it will, eventually, have long-term benefits IF, and only if, we can "cover the spread" until then. If we can't and the deficit is an insurmountable problem without those rates, then we will have to raise them back or we will have to cut the budget in other areas. I am in favor of doing both, but especially budget cuts. And, budget cuts in places people don't like to talk about, like... The Military. /gasp
Santi wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 02:52
Career politicians take for granted that tax payers will fund not only their lifestyle but also their careers. While politicians will hire staff with the promise of influence and political power, an outsider like Trump, coming from the private industry, will hire based in results.

Also compare Trump with Macron, easy to spot who knows what people wants.
"Career politicians take for granted that tax payers will fund not only their lifestyle but also their careers.. especially favoring methods that fund their lifestyle without tax-payers knowing that they are paying for it." - Fixed that for you. :)

Trump isn't hiring people who "get results." Trump is hiring people who are celebrities and who may have gotten results using "any means necessary" including "illegal" means.

How many people associated with Trump's campaign or administration have already been indicted and plead guilty to crimes? These are the "results" oriented sorts of hires you're talking about? I think you may have a bit of an inflated stereotype of the "successful businessman" going on, here. Trump's "successful businessman" organization consisted of maybe a dozen people or so, with the rest being rank-and-file workers, hotel managers, landscapers and doormen... We're not talking about a Google-sized organization, here or some corporate climate that "promoted from within" letting the rank-and-file compete for higher positions based on meritorious service. Trump didn't run what's conceived as some traditional corporate machine. He ran an autocracy-oriented "family business."

Look at one of Trump's "hires" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Clovis

A radio talk-show host hired, which I assume you'd say was a meritorious hire, as Undersecretary of Agriculture for Research, Education and Economics... The dude doesn't have a science or research or even a teaching background. Nada. If anything, he's got some background in Security and politics, but Trump hired him for this? This isn't a special case, but it's obviously one of the most prominent ones.

That is the sort of "results oriented" hiring practices you say Trump engages in?

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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 18:44

Cohen sentenced to three years in prison..
found guilty on 9 counts..

one of those counts relates to campaign finance violations..
having ruled those financial transactions as illegal, can the court now proceed to similarly indict Trump?
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:11

Trump cannot be indicted while he is still the president of the United States of America, his problem arises when he is no longer the president of the United States of America. Even then he may be pardoned for any and all crimes that he has committed in the past, just like Tricky Dicky was, that will be up to the next President who comes after Trump.

Saying that, it is rumoured that NY already has the paperwork prepared for that day. Also as far as I'm aware there are certain kinds of charges that a president can't pardon, it would be nice if someone could confirm this.
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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 20:09

felter wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:11
Saying that, it is rumoured that NY already has the paperwork prepared for that day. Also as far as I'm aware there are certain kinds of charges that a president can't pardon, it would be nice if someone could confirm this.
I think I am right in saying that the President can only pardon Federal crimes, not State crimes, eg anybody convicted in the Southern District of NY can't be pardoned.

Happy to be corrected though :).
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:32

So yesterday some bloke from Google was giving evidence in front of congress, and one of the questions they asked was why when you typed in idiot into the google search engine, the result you got was, well I'll let you try it for yourself but you should be able to guess due to where this is being posted. By the way, try other search engines and you will get a similar result, so it's not just Google. The question also made it one of the most searched words yesterday and probably today too. :D
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Thu, 13. Dec 18, 02:28

BugMeister wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 18:44
Cohen sentenced to three years in prison..
found guilty on 9 counts..

one of those counts relates to campaign finance violations..
having ruled those financial transactions as illegal, can the court now proceed to similarly indict Trump?
Just what do you expect to happen then? He'll pay the fine and serve his term as president just like obama did.
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 13. Dec 18, 04:23

Obama co-operated fully - Trump has done the exact opposite - there is a difference..

Prof. Painter suggests that Trump seek a plea deal and offer his resignation, accepting reduced charges..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xhgcilPNSw

- out of sheer spite, the lunatic will attempt to shut down the government, but he cannot be allowed to succeed..
- it's time for the Replicant's to come clean, and do the right thing..

- the lame-duck president is looking for a lame-duck chief of staff - any takers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAgZXpHK8Tw

PS. I note that he keeps a bust of Winston Churchill in his office
- hope we're not gonna get a "we will fight them on the beaches..." speech from the madman..

PPS. though I do remember seeing a photo of Thatcher posed kneeling at Churchill's knee, all starry-eyed - as she cruelly ripped the heart out of the UK economy.. :gruebel:
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 13. Dec 18, 12:34

- forget the wall..
- build a dome..
- bit pointless, really..
we all know that nowadays you don't invade your enemies ..you just buy them..

there is so much crap about to hit the fan..
what next?
Jared Kushner or Ivanka Trump to be made Secretary Of State..??
better still, Don Junior - he'll beat the rap then for sure :lol:

PS We still do not know what role Wilbur Ross played in the corruption, and how he managed to acquire several million dollars while doing so.. :gruebel:
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Re: Trump

Post by Rapier » Fri, 14. Dec 18, 18:20

felter wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:11
Trump cannot be indicted while he is still the president of the United States of America, his problem arises when he is no longer the president of the United States of America. Even then he may be pardoned for any and all crimes that he has committed in the past, just like Tricky Dicky was, that will be up to the next President who comes after Trump.

Saying that, it is rumoured that NY already has the paperwork prepared for that day. Also as far as I'm aware there are certain kinds of charges that a president can't pardon, it would be nice if someone could confirm this.
Pedantry Alert: I believe the President can be indicted in Court whilst in office, but it would be under seal (ie nothing would happen and we wouldn't know) until they leave office. Whilst the law doesn't prevent it, the internal rules and guidelines of the MoJ do, so it aint gonna happen in this case. I think I've plugged it before, but for untangling all Trump-related legal stuff, I would recommend the podcast All the President's Lawyers.
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Fri, 14. Dec 18, 21:09

Randi gives the low-down on the Buttina "problem"..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYQ9NMQg0Y0

- full details of the way in which the Russians intervened in the 2016 US electoral process, via exploitation of NRA "lobbying"..
- for "lobbying" read bribery/blackmail arrangements..

- why do you think Putin and bin Salman were high-fiving and grinning all over their faces, the other day..??
- amazing what you can achieve when you throw around large wads of cash - it's party-time, folks..

Mike Malloy elucidates - (language warning)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPfZ7ZeBhfU

Malcolm Nance has been warning us of this for quite some time.. :o :o
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 04:33

felter wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:11
...Also as far as I'm aware there are certain kinds of charges that a president can't pardon, it would be nice if someone could confirm this.
The President can pardon all federal offences except impeachment.

Trump could pardon someone for murder, a Federal crime, but couldn't pardon someone's parking violations, a State crime. (ie: Powers reserved for the States belong to the States.)

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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 06:40

- so the entire veracity of Dirty Don Drumpf's presidency of the US is hanging on a technicality..?
- not a good situation in anybody's book.. :sceptic: :sceptic:

- Oz has a handle on the truth..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7IsYYvvzvQ
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Re: Trump

Post by Santi » Sun, 16. Dec 18, 02:12

Morkonan wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 17:49
Trump isn't hiring people who "get results." Trump is hiring people who are celebrities and who may have gotten results using "any means necessary" including "illegal" means.

How many people associated with Trump's campaign or administration have already been indicted and plead guilty to crimes? These are the "results" oriented sorts of hires you're talking about?

That is the sort of "results oriented" hiring practices you say Trump engages in?
Have a look at the administration, they had to expand the revolving door because it cannot cope with the affluence of people coming in and out of it. What is the difference? Trump does not really have political luggage when it comes to hiring people, sure enough he will get some of his pals into the administration, but he will have no qualms about sacking them if necessary or it suits him.

And you are confusing "results" with "Trump results" that are two completely different things.
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Sun, 16. Dec 18, 03:22

Santi wrote:
Sun, 16. Dec 18, 02:12
...And you are confusing "results" with "Trump results" that are two completely different things.
Are you sure you're not my ex-wife? :)

"But, honey, all I meant to do was-"
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions! That's what my mom always used to say and she was right!"
"Your mother doesn't have anything to do with this."
"How dare you speak against my mother!"
"But... That's not the issue. The issue is-"
"You never liked her! I knew it!"

No, Trump doesn't have the established poltical machine that has a Rolodex full of qualified people waiting in the wings. Not like he wasn't the Republican nominee or anything... The problem isn't that Trump doesn't know who to hire, the problem is that nobody who is truly qualified for many of the positions is willing to work for him. He's having to dig down deep to find staffers that have some kind of remotely justifiable qualification for an office. And, perhaps, Trump is making his own suggestions, too, refusing to accept the advice of people who might actually have some good recommendations for him? He's headstrong and definitely an autocrat, so that's not a far-fetched scenario.

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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Sun, 16. Dec 18, 03:42

As far as I can gather, Trump is not exactly the best person to either work for or with. It also seems to look like that he is incapable of taking any kind of advice. He always seems to think that he knows everything about everything and any view that is not his is always wrong, no matter what kind of evidence you have to the contrary. Any advice that he does seem to acknowledge, seems to come from nut jobs, total losers or even worse, fox news, all of the people who just make things up. He is pretty demeaning and two faced, he will only say nice things about you when you are in the room with him, but will say and be nasty about you as soon as you leave the room. When things do go wrong and they will, he will blame everyone else you included even though he would not listen to their advice to start with, because he thinks he is never wrong and never makes mistakes, so they must have done it on purpose to make him look bad. Would you want to work for someone like that.
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