Trump

[BugMeister]

the lunatic is in the hall..
the lunatic is on the grass..

The President picks his next hate project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEIEJXRyqa0

- the Duterte approach..
- what an incredible fool this man is..

[Morkonan]

Sanctimony is not an argument. Human and drug trafficking is intolerable and every effort should be made to combat them. Border sectors that have constructed a barrier have drastically less arrests after. Prove me wrong. Do it without changing the goalposts or appealing to emotion if you can.

This is... Dude, this is all just drivel. Where are you getting this stuff from? It's not a personal attack against you. I just don't understand why someone who can manage to cook a steak like you can would end up running afoul of all this... stuff.

First, you can gain support for whatever you want if you maintain that "the unthinkable" will happen if you don't get such support. Heck, you can even make unfounded claims and use them for justifying whatever you want to justify. That is what Trump has been doing by manufacturing crises out of thin air.

Of course, if I don't think we should build a wall, then I must be in favor of human and drug trafficking, right? /sigh

A wall is not going to stop those things. The only thing a wall might effect is the illegal trafficking of marijuana. Why? Because it's bulky, stinks, is difficult to package and transport without detection, that's why. That's it. And, even if there was a wall, they'd probably build yet another submarine or pack it into a ship or shipping container. I'm not saying that "resistance is futile." I'm saying that while we're pointing at the wall and proclaiming it good, they'll be coming in like they always do - The front door.

"Prove me wrong." Well, where's your evidence. Is it the "El Paso" story? Crime in El Paso started dropping BEFORE the wall there was built... Where's your claim of cause-and-effect now if that's the argument you're using to support your claim?

FactCheck.org - Trump El Paso Rally

The FBI doesn't agree with Trump's assertions, so he claims they're using "doctored" data... WTF?

Human Trafficking is pretty simple and usually carried out the same way up to a point. In the case with prostitution, it's even simpler - A likely victim is found, things are promised that induce them to go somewhere, when they get there they are then powerless, without any support, often their illegally so they can't appeal to authorities, and then they're forced into prostitution. A "wall" is not going to do a darn thing. Women aren't being tied up, gagged, and forced to march through the empty deserte at gunpoint in order to serve as prostitutes in the US. That's BS. They're being promised jobs or being lured by someone they think loves them. And then, they find out the horrible truth -They were just sold to someone and now they're a slave.

But, of course, if someone claims something terrible is happening and they alone have the solution, they'll get a lot of people supporting them who don't understand that their solution is nothing more than luring in unsuspecting victims...

Trump is trying to build a "wall" so he can point to it as an achievement and he'll create as many "victims" as is necessary. He'll lie to them. He'll convince them that a false reward awaits them and all they have to do is this one little thing. When it's done, he'll use the proceeds from that to leverage his power-base and all his claims of "doing good" and stopping human and drug trafficking and solving the violent crime problem (?) will just be that much more BS. But, there will be the monument of a wall to testify to his "accomplishment" still, right? Must be significant.. It must mean something. After all, it's so big. So very big that it must be a big thing. Biggest.

He wants to build the wall so he can claim it as a victory in both his achievements at combating "crime", making the US "more secure" and following through on his campaign promises. Yeah.. I want good tasting, creamy, delicious, calorie-free ice-cream, too, but that ain't the reality of the world in which we live.

PS - I have stated many times over the years - A true nation must maintain its sovereignty. I have stated this in multiple threads and in many different ways, but all ending with the fact that a nation must maintain its sovereignty and must control the area within the borders it lays claim to. (Targeting a search should turn them up easily enough, going back a number of years.) I have always maintained the appropriateness of this basic principle of statecraft. Always. Yet, I still believe that building a "Wall" on our Southern Border is a monumentally stupid and wrong-headed idea. Take that for what it's worth. I feel it is the wrong approach and will not yield the desired results nor will it be "for the Greater Good" of our People to do so.

[BugMeister]

OH YEAH, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN..!!

the whole Trump family are a bunch of hateful money-grabbing creeps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpPaAUFNdNk
Don Jr doing his Biff impression, yet again - he obviously learnt nothing at school..

Manafort, Cohen et al. in prison..
Pence lurking around like the skeleton at the feast..
silently stupid, while all around him lie and cheat
- right under his self-righteous nose..

against all logic, political expediency is blatantly being used
as the reason (??) for imposing a National Emergency,
an obvious and outrageous abuse of the law - and also of the powers of presidential office..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4jXaMYxWBk

Wilbur and the Replicants hiding under rocks, covered in corruption and slime
plotting conspiracy theories and smear campaigns against democracy itself..
while expounding and promoting a through-the-looking-glass future, where all is ethical purity and light
a world blighted only by the undeserving poor and sick, who tear at their empty amoral consciences

- and all this, while compromised judges pass sentence on manufactured dissent..??

ROLL UP, ROLL UP - MAKE AMERICA GREAT, OH YEAH..
- kick out the jams, ffs..

[BugMeister]

Mitch and his missus practice their tax-avoidance skills:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVy2XGiC9Xo
- compromised, bought and paid for..
- McConnell takes credit for giving tax-breaks to the ultra wealthy

Pence practises crass hypocrisy, by seeking to promote war abroad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7gIz1pvh-c
- compromised and corrupted, Pence apparently the doyen of the Khristians

Lindsey Graham flip-flops like a fish out of water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFsgLeYafIk
- like little kids squabbling in public..

[Masterbagger]

PS - I have stated many times over the years - A true nation must maintain its sovereignty. I have stated this in multiple threads and in many different ways, but all ending with the fact that a nation must maintain its sovereignty and must control the area within the borders it lays claim to. (Targeting a search should turn them up easily enough, going back a number of years.) I have always maintained the appropriateness of this basic principle of statecraft. Always. Yet, I still believe that building a "Wall" on our Southern Border is a monumentally stupid and wrong-headed idea. Take that for what it's worth. I feel it is the wrong approach and will not yield the desired results nor will it be "for the Greater Good" of our People to do so.

These are the border patrol arrest stats.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files ... FY2017.pdf

We added fence, more manpower, and more technology in some places in 2006. The impression I get from the places that build up the border like Yuma, San Diego and El Paso is that the illegal alien traffic is diverting around them and crossing where it is easier. It looks to me like illegal immigrants are taking the paths of least resistance. I have no doubts that the increased number of officers and use of cameras and other sensors is playing a huge part toward apprehending illegal aliens. I think the physical barriers we have built in those places are also a factor. We don't have an effective fence meant to keep people out on most of our border. We built it up in some places and others it is just a barrier for vehicles that a motivated individual can get over or under. That needs to be addressed.

There are a whole mess of reasons why illegals are coming here and an equal mess of things that could be done to mitigate them. You wanted to stabilize the countries those claiming asylum are from. It is in our best interests in the future not to have more failed States like Venezuela crumbling in our backyard. I'm going to suggest that one of the many reasons illegals are showing up in such numbers is that it is easy. I think any other solution to combat illegal immigration or combination of them is going to be less effective as long as it is easy to get across the border. I'm seeing that places that have been successful in driving down illegal crossings have used border walls as part of that effort.

[felter]

As I said earlier, It's far easier to cross into America from Canada than it is from Mexico to America. A Mexican does not require a visa to enter Canada and it costs around $250 to fly one way from Mexico City to Toronto. There is less security on the Mexican border so it is far easier to cross over illegally. Granted at this time of year the weather is against you, but summer is just around the corner. I know how I would try and enter America, wall or no wall.

[RegisterMe]

As I said earlier, It's far easier to cross into America from Canada than it is from Mexico to America. A Mexican does not require a visa to enter Canada and it costs around $250 to fly one way from Mexico City to Toronto. There is less security on the Mexican border so it is far easier to cross over illegally. Granted at this time of year the weather is against you, but summer is just around the corner. I know how I would try and enter America, wall or no wall.

I guess he'll build a wall along the Canadian border then. Time to buy shares in Cemex.

[BugMeister]

and bigger fools look on..

- watch idiot Pence's supercilious smile in the background
- the smug look of approval as Trump openly threatens government disruption
- if anyone attempts to investigate his activities - it speaks volumes..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMrHDzLEczU

- your president openly implies that peace itself exists only if/when you all agree with his every move..
- this is proof that Trump is a self-serving, psychotic gangster - and that Pence blesses his every crooked act..
- Old "Holier-than-thou" Pence actually approves of lies and cruelty, and smiles quietly to himself as his master runs amok..
- quite obvious that Pence has absolutely no conscience at all - an empty headed yes-man, only..
- Mike Pence, the very embodiment of RELAXED EVIL, smiles benignly as your lunatic leader rants against any and all opposition to his hate-filled diatribes..

Konservative whacko, Rush Limbaugh talks complete and utter garbage, as usual:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAgmCJtt2sU
- what a disgusting boot-licking liar..!!

Joy Reid shows more and deeper understanding than any of them - and she's not even a politician, ffs..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzZN7ece-YQ
- watch these extremist right-wingers, all squirming liars in action, as they peddle their blind hatred..
- Hannity talks utter gibberish in support of Trump, as do most at Fox News..
- Lex Luthor Murdoch has purposely adopted this stance, knowing that it will inflame the public..
- he loves playing to the cheap seats - it's his way, don'cha know..

- the liars club..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNLb03gX4w8
- the current US government has been crammed to the gunnels with gold-plated incompetent criminal TRASH..
- while Trump's fascist propaganda quietly permeates the upper echelons, thanks to a compliant Replicant Party - entirely supplicant to its leaders

- it ain't a conspiracy theory, if it's happening right under your nose..

[pjknibbs]

I guess he'll build a wall along the Canadian border then. Time to buy shares in Cemex.

And then presumably one along the entire coastline, just to make absolutely sure...

[Grim Lock]

Well for a laugh, Gop Jesus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ2L-R8NgrA&t=20s

[Bishop149]

Well for a laugh, Gop Jesus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ2L-R8NgrA&t=20s

Reminded me of this from last week: Wyoming Republican Says She Loves the Death Penalty Because Jesus 'Died via the Death Penalty'

The mental pirouettes these people twist themselves into in their attempts to reconcile their supposed Christianity with their deeply unchristian behaviour is truly something to behold.

[BugMeister]

ha, ha - excellent..!!

Alec Baldwin doing a great job..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D-rseZ9OnE

the Washington Post shows the comparison..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ux4eTOEP4

- Trump is completely nutz..
- invoke the 25th,,
- impeach this lunatic..!!

Stephen Miller is on another planet altogether..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KpCTQ_LGm0
- why is this person even allowed in the White House - he has no qualifications whatsoever..
- he's a modern-day Rasputin..

meanwhile in downtown Oligarchville USA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0XHyIS9U8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hAtZLZ7rWQ
- off the record, on the QT - and oh, so hush-hush..

[fiksal]

I'm seeing that places that have been successful in driving down illegal crossings have used border walls as part of that effort.

Mass executions would do it too, and cheaper.

Yeah, you're right, for me that post was a 04:00 so i wasn't exactly at best (and my best pales to some of the debating skills of some of you (not you masterbagger)

Your post was fine, I was just making sure we dont go down a rabbit hole.

but it doesn't matter Trump voters have given a clear signal from the start that they don't deal in facts, they deal in belief.

This is a pretty standard modern nationalist approach. Only the "facts" that support one's side are useful, and only one's tribe is the only tribe that matters. Everyone else becomes a republican traitor, or a liberal, or just simply "enemy of the people". Everyone should understand what that label means.

[BugMeister]

- oops..!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1jIIdLhrQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtMfRRwIfLg
given that he's been such a valuable asset to the New-Kommie regime in PutinLand, you might be forgiven for thinking that
rather than keeping Manafort in prison at the US tax-payers expense, why not arrange a swap for him?

I'm sure the Russki's would provide him with a nice safe dacha somewhere quiet and out of the way..
somewhere near the estate reserved for the Trumpski's - just down the road from Trumpski Tower..
so he doesn't have to go too far to find a good ostrich-skin tailor.. (- always assuming that Putin pardons Trump, of course..)

- or maybe Kim or Duterte would take him in exchange for a few thousand deserving souls..??
- at least then you'd get some vfm (Value For Manafort)

PS - has the BETA Pence robot been updated lately.. obviously it's still recording - but it appears to be showing severe lag - is there a BIOS update due..??
- we should be told..

[Morkonan]

...
There are a whole mess of reasons why illegals are coming here and an equal mess of things that could be done to mitigate them. You wanted to stabilize the countries those claiming asylum are from. It is in our best interests in the future not to have more failed States like Venezuela crumbling in our backyard. I'm going to suggest that one of the many reasons illegals are showing up in such numbers is that it is easy. I think any other solution to combat illegal immigration or combination of them is going to be less effective as long as it is easy to get across the border. I'm seeing that places that have been successful in driving down illegal crossings have used border walls as part of that effort.

The problem with a "Wall" is that it's being offered as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...

I know. I put on a set of football pads, ready for practice as a tackling dummy.

This is gonna be a TLDR. I know, sorry. But, it's not a simple "A wall will fix it" issue. It's just not. That's the sort of solution that home-repair mechanic comes up with when their engine stops working - "If I don't try to start the car, it won't be broke." Be thankful I just got a severe weather alert and am about to be inundated with a snow/ice apockyclipse, or this darn post would be longer. But, it'd also be more organized.... Anyway, here ya go.

Let's look at some stuffs!

PewResearch - Facts about illegal immigration

I know - "Facts." But, they illustrate the problem with the rhetoric that's being spewed out.

Illegal immigration has been declining.

Illegal immigration of Mexican citizens has been declining and makes up about half of the illegal immigrant population.

The number of employed illegal immigrants in the US has been declining.

Most illegal immigrants have been in the US for over ten years and that portion of population of increasing residency years is increasing.


OK, so maybe it's not a "National Emergency" considering it's the same leaky faucet that we've had for decades and it's not getting worse. But, is the Southern Border in need of a ginormous wall in the first place due to some uptick in illegal border crossings there? Uh..

Factcheck: Illegal immigration statistics

We can't know, of course, what we don't know. But, given that many other factors remain the same, like the fact that we apprehend illegal immigrants when we catch them, we can see that the rate of illegal border apprehensions for crossings at the Southern Border has been declining. It also appears that the number of illegal immigrants that are in the country right now are often "overstays" from legally obtained visas. And, for ones in-country, the rate of overstays is making up a majority of the population. IOW - An increasing number of newly declared "illegal immigrants" are from overstays, upwards of 65% of all illegal immigrants.

Increasingly, for illegal border crossings, families are making up a larger percentage of illegal immigrants.

Particularly telling, for this post, look at the last graph. It's a percentage of "return offenders" versus "successful enforcement efforts (forced expulsion)". Basically, its a comparison of recidivism rate versus successful enforcement. See how both rates are beginning to meet in the graph? See how the difference between them is getting progressively smaller?

This is enforcement at work, not prevention.

Enforcement.

Note that an increasing number of newly declared illegal immigrants aren't people who jumped a wall, but people who just sat in their apartment watching television while their legally obtained visa expired.

We are both aware that trends in rhetoric, true increases in enforcement, a more political "hard-line" stance, widely publicized, has effects. For instance, loud proclamations about harsh measures taken against illegal immigrants tends to reduce motivation for illegal immigration attempts. That's sort of a "No Duh" conclusion, right? BUT, notice that while the total illegal crossings are down since Trump was elected, it doesn't really coincide with his election. IOW - It's not just him spouting rhetoric and fear of a Trump reprisal, something else operated there. There is, however IMO, a contribution there in the numbers just because illegal immigrants are afraid of what may happen to them when they are apprehended.

So, we see a general downturn. And, regardless of what the numbers are... WHY DO PEOPLE ILLEGALLY IMMIGRATE TO THE UNITED STATES?

For the most part, they're "fleeing to the U.S." They're coming here because here is better than where they were. They're coming here to escape violence and terrible economic conditions or unstable governments. They're coming here because here is better than where they were.

Is a "Wall" going to be a solution, here?

No. Reduced numbers of illegal crossings, an increase in the number of overstays making up a large majority of current illegal immigrants, increased violence and political and economic stability in their own countries and an ever increasing chance of comparable economic opportunities present in the US.. Wait a second, what do we have here?

This is important.

"An increasing chance of comparable economic opportunities in the US..."

"Enforcement."

Do you think that an illegal immigrant would come to the US seeking increased economic opportunity would slog through the desert to get here if they knew the chances of getting a job were slim to none? !!

Do you think someone that overstayed their legally obtained visa would do so if they knew they'd be deported within forty-eight hours or that their current employer would have to fire them the next day? !!

Obviously, a key part of the solution, by the numbers, is going to HAVE to be "enforcement." I don't mean just the apprehension of illegal immigrants, I mean that employers <FRIGGIN GASP!> will have to enforce employment laws! HOLY CLAP! We are also going to have to provide more funding to enforce the terms of legally obtained visas. ZOMGZ ENFRORK THE WORKER PROGLAMS!??

I point these two things out because it shouldn't be a secret that large farms, even the ones owned by huge corporations, employ a lot of physical labor in the form of illegal immigrants. I point this out because the guy at Microsoft that just borked your system may not be some contract-worker in India, but may be an illegal Indian immigrant at Microsft's corporate office who's visa just expired...

If it were you as a potential illegal immigrant and you and your family were suffering, perhaps even looking at the possibility of dying to violence, hunger, poverty-caused disease, etc, would you let a wall stand between you and the survival of your family?

No, you would not. You'd friggin' get over that wall no matter what it took.

And, for those who are going to be rushing that wall, that is exactly what will happen - They will defeat it because failing to do so is unthinkable. They are humans and a human being will claw their way through a pile of bodies in order to survive and will stand in front of a speeding train to save the lives of their children.

That is what Trump's wall is up against. It's up against an increasing number of families looking for asylum and fleeing hardship. It's up against people from South America fleeing political instability and true fear that few Americans could ever understand. It's not going to stop those people. Never. You may think that expending the calories to climb a wall isn't worth it, but you're not one of these illegal immigrants who has lived their life in a world few could imagine and only sees relief and glory on the other side of that wall.

If Trump wanted a "real solution" then I urge you, once again, to look at that last graph on Factcheck, the one that shows the dwindling rates of recidivism vs the rate of successful enforcement. Look at it. It's telling. It tells you how to help solve the problem.

Look at the increasing percentage of overstays that make up the current population of illegal immigrants in the US. These are people who could have done nothing other than just sit and watch TV while their visa expired. That, alone, should tell you where a few billion dollars of extra funding needs to go.

What will a wall stop? A wall will stop someone who doesn't want to expend the energy in order to cross it. Tell me - How many illegal immigrants that slogged through the desert or walked all the way from South America, fleeing terrible conditions, don't have the willpower to muster up the energy to cross a wall that stands between them and Heaven? ZEEEROW. If they're going to slog from South America (Not Mexico), which is where Southern Border crossers are increasingly coming from, do you think a glorified fence is an obstacle? You know what will happen?

Some enterprising Mexican entrepreneur is going to open up a ladder business on the US-Mexican border and become a gallion-peso-naire. (About five bucks...) There ya go, Trump's wall defeated by enterprising Mexican entrepreneurs selling ladders at the border. They'll probably make more money selling ladders, spots in the back of a truck, and boat-rides than is spent on Trump's wall.

Lastly, we both understand, i think, people will continue to immigrate to the US if here is where they want to be. And, the worse it is where they are, the more motivated they'll be to come here. That's not terrible, is it? We have plenty of good American citizens who came here from other countries. But, if we want to lower illegal immigration, we have to make it more difficult for illegal immigrants to obtain employment. We have to also work towards what we've been trying to do for decades - Improve the living conditions and the political and economic stability in South American countries through trade, economic development programs, aid and education. Improving the overall economy and stability of any nation would likely seem to be a great way to reduce immigration from that nation, yes? Reducing the availability of employment for illegal immigrants and enforcing the existing laws on the books would like reduce the number of illegal immigrants and the current population of illegal immigrants in the US, yes?

The Wall is not a solution for any reduction in illegal immigration other than to discourage casual illegal immigration, which is obviously what is not the problem right now even as the problem, itself, is of diminishing concern. The solution is enforcement of current laws, reduction in the employability of illegal immigrants, and foreign policy guided programs designed to induce political stability and more economic opportunities in South American countries.

You're smarter than Trump's rhetoric. You have played or are playing one of the most difficult to master franchises of space-awesome games in the current universe of space-awesome games. You are smarter than Trump. Be that.

PS - I wanted to point something out, but didn't have time. I have to beat the soccer-moms to the friggin' grocery store. So, here it is: A lot of people see "illegal immigrant" whenever they see an American of Mexican/Latin/Spanish ethnic heritage. They just do. For those who are VERY sensitive to this experience, they see illegal immigrants "everywhere." If you are in an area of a high population of Americans of Latin/Spanish/Mexican/dark-tan descent, I challenge you to think about how many conversations you, yourself, may have experienced with other Americans that focus on "all the illegal immigrants in our area" without one reference to what the actual number of illegal immigrants in that area might possibly be. I've had those conversations with people in areas with lots of Spanish-only speaking residents and most of the people they're pointing at are actually Americans, just ones that live in isolated communities or Mexican "ghettos." Their parents or grandparents may have been here illegally, but they're not. Yet, the ever-increasing population of Latin/Spanish-speaking Americans also plays into the rhetoric that Trump is popularizing. IMO, part of the motivation behind that is segments of the population who are seeing more of these people than they are used to seeing, no matter if the one's they are looking at are truly Americans or not. Time for groceries...

[BugMeister]

- Hari Seldon is expected to appear at any moment..

large back-handers discovered in the church funds
the revolting robot speaks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnElFGHbk5I

- has Asimov's law of robotics been broken
- it might just be a glitch, Mitch..??

[felter]

- Hari Seldon is expected to appear at any moment..

large back-handers discovered in the church funds
the revolting robot speaks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnElFGHbk5I

- has Asimov's law of robotics been broken
- it might just be a glitch, Mitch..??

I don't know why you post links like that, they are pretty suspect to start with, especially when you take into account they are the only ones reporting these stories, there is a reason why they use text to speech and why they don't have any subscribers. The term fake news comes to mind.

[BugMeister]

FAKE WEATHER REPORT>>
a blizzard of lies is expected to hit the US and the UK, in the next few weeks
heavy drifting is likely - people are advised to stay indoors, as temperatures plummet to new lows..

aah yes, fake news..
when liars tell us that everyone is lying - who can you believe..?
- hmmm...
..and soon all news is suspect..

Ah, I see what you did there..

one can believe what one likes, apparently..
- the truth is out there..

scene cuts to a robot fisherman slowly and carefully reeling in a shopping trolley from a canal..
the camera gradually pans back and eventually it becomes clear that the canal is on mars..

then a Curiosity robot rolls forward waving a shotgun, shouting, "Oi - what you doin' here - get orf moi land..!!?"
..movie-camera crew abandons all of its gear and legs it - as chaos ensues..
NOTHING IS REAL..
*cue spooky x-files musak*

[Grimmrog]

I have seen a prettynice documentation about El Chapo about 2 weeks ago.
Someone should show That to trump so he realsies theres already tunnels and building a wall over tunnels is veeeery useful.
We had a wall here in Germany, didn't worked well either.

[Grim Lock]

Lol hadn't seen/heard it yet, but Ann Coulter has been throwing Trump under the bus, looking at comments on her twitter etc, the stereotypical trump supporters are now attacking her. Lol now i don't mind her not having the time of her life, don't have much more respect for her than i have for Trump, but still it's this kind of reaction to someone beeing critical of Trump that really concerns me, there are just too much simularities with the kind of people who live in a dictatorship that are actively supporting said dictatorship.