Trump

[Observe]

- and these swine are fond expounding of the "trickle down" form of economics..
- they don't even pay TAXES FFS..!!

That's the whole point of trickle-down. Pay little or no taxes. Instead, use the money to invest in business. Business growth will result in more jobs and higher incomes. Sounds a bit like tooth-fairy economics, but some still believe in such things; in spite of evidence to the contrary...

[Morkonan]

To be honest, though, they're "Real Estate Developers" and they have a number of loopholes they can drive a bus through in order to avoid paying taxes. If they were in some other business, things would be a lot different. Real Estate obeys a whole different set of rules. There are some good reasons, like keeping people from having real property seized because they haven't placed additional rent burdens on their tenants to some stupid ones, like... free money.

[Hank001]

Well that and Trump's quote saying "Only idiots pay more taxes than they have to." So I suppose that means anyone that pays less taxes than they have to are geniuses! No wonder he refuses to release his tax returns.

[Observe]

The only question is are the tax loopholes being employed, legal or not. If legal, they are simply playing by the rules. No one can complain.

[Morkonan]

The only question is are the tax loopholes being employed, legal or not. If legal, they are simply playing by the rules. No one can complain.

Well, as you suggested earlier, we can certainly complain. And, maybe, this is what might help to reform tax laws during some future administration? I'm sure the basis for some of these laws has some shady underpinnings, but there's probably some legitimate reasons there, too. So, maybe this focus, however brief, will help to put some light on those regulations that are a bit less than economically helpful for the majority of people?

[Hank001]

Morkonan asks:

So, maybe this focus, however brief, will help to put some light on those regulations that are a bit less than economically helpful for the majority of people?

Well when the present administration is finished with the tax code, don't get too mad. The high rollers aren't buying lobbiests and making campaign contributions so THEY have to foot the bills. It's going to be back to the middle class carrying the load. That's kind of a given.

[Morkonan]

..It's going to be back to the middle class carrying the load. That's kind of a given.

Well, at least feeling the share of the load a lot more than they should have to, that's for certain.

One of the problems is "The Code." It takes a specialist to understand it. It takes a specialist to fight or defend against it. That's "not right." It should be simple and easy to understand, right?

But, a tax code is one of the major ways a government has to influence economic behavior. With complex tax codes, there are a lot more ways to influence economic behavior. One could say that our economy owes its strength, in part, to our tax code. But, balancing that so that very complex rules can't be misused... That's hard.

We just need a simpler code for individuals. We need some simple regulations regarding all the major food groups of economic activity and the behaviors we want to influence. Housing/property, income, necessary living expenses, desirable saving and spending habits, families and children, donations and charitable contributions, luxury spending, etc... etc.. etc. IOW - If we want to continue to use the code to influence individual behavior in all these areas, which we've been doing since we brought the whole mess up in the first place, then it's going to be fairly complex. BUT, it could certainly be simpler and should be something everyone can figure out without having to pay someone else to figure it out for them.

[BugMeister]

The only question is are the tax loopholes being employed, legal or not. If legal, they are simply playing by the rules. No one can complain.

- shall I answer that question for you?
- THEY ARE ILLEGAL..

- get it?

[Observe]

The only question is are the tax loopholes being employed, legal or not. If legal, they are simply playing by the rules. No one can complain.

- shall I answer that question for you? - THEY ARE ILLEGAL. - get it?

Are they? Do you know precisely which laws have allegedly been broken? If you are right, I would expect to see handcuffs breaking out all over. If you are wrong, I would expect to see what we are seeing...a bunch of non-specific grumbling.

[Hank001]

Hey even I have to pay to get my taxes done! Trump's got tax lawyers up the ying-yang. Nice thing about it is if there's something "wrong" with his taxes it's the lawyers and accountants fault unless the law finds out they were doing their doing at his orders. Which they probably can't. What Trump's returns would prove olis how (probably rediculously) little taxes he did pay. (Offset of course by how much he paid his tax people and couldn't write off)

That's why so much of Trump's endevours went bankrupt. As tax writeoffs. Some of the dodges are in "The Art of the Deal". Can you just picture him facing a rally in Podunk Junction if the crowds knew that he's probably paying the same amount of taxes as the average Joe in the audience?
Wouldn't be pretty.

[Observe]

Can you just picture him facing a rally in Podunk Junction if the crowds knew that he's probably paying the same amount of taxes as the average Joe in the audience? Wouldn't be pretty.

I think you misjudge his followers. It has been long known that he dodges paying taxes. Anyone who gets away with sticking it to the government, is a hero in their eyes. These days, most people can't see past their rage. This goes for liberals as well as for their opposite.

[Hank001]

Observe got me with:

I think you misjudge his followers. It has been long known that he dodges paying taxes. Anyone who gets away with sticking it to the government, is a hero in their eyes. These days, most people can't see past their rage. This goes for liberals as well as for their opposite.

Good point. Yeah they'll pat him on the back for sticking it to the government he's suppose to be leading. And when their tax bills goes up they'll probably blame it on the "Deep State". Win-win there I guess.

[Observe]

Observe got me with:

I think you misjudge his followers. It has been long known that he dodges paying taxes. Anyone who gets away with sticking it to the government, is a hero in their eyes. These days, most people can't see past their rage. This goes for liberals as well as for their opposite.

Good point. Yeah they'll pat him on the back for sticking it to the government he's suppose to be leading. And when their tax bills goes up they'll probably blame it on the "Deep State". Win-win there I guess.

Absolutely. He can't lose for lying. He has an audience who deeply distrusts government and institutions. Physical and social scientists, psychologists and philosophers are among the worst, because they will come up with such infuriating ideas, as suggesting that meat consumption should be reduced because of global warming, or that it is a good idea to teach our children, skills in critical thinking. Blasphemy!

Anyway, Trump has a solution to all these things. It's called Make America Great again by draining the swamp. That's all his people need to know. They trust he will do the right thing to assuage their rage. So far, he is doing a great job in their eyes. They will elect him again, because no one has figured out how to counter him, or how to include those who support Trump.

[Morkonan]

This just in, sorta: GAO Report - US Deficit rises 17%

Oh joy...

Now, being a fiscal conservative, I'm all in favor of reducing corporate taxes as an economic stimulus. In basic terms, it works. But, you're supposed to be sensible and keep spending reasonable, not just start pumping money into stuffs you don't necessarily need... Here, it may be that military spending, and the politically motivated spending needed to gain political support for more military spending, might be the culprit. "Derp." I think we need to prioritize our military spending and focus it on things that aren't necessarily as flashy and phalluslike, which is what appeals to the public. Maybe we should be polishing and putting some new coats of paint on what we already have?

Nearly all new US weapons system vulnerable to attack

"...In some cases, the "weapon systems used commercial or open source software, but did not change the default password when the software was installed, which allowed test teams to look up the password on the internet and gain administrator privileges."...

The equivalent of looking up administrator passwords and default settings for someone's modem or grabbing a key-generator and generating a key so you can gain control of an A.A. Missile emplacement... Password = Administrator, Password, 1234, "FIRE ZE MIZZILEZ" We love big weapons systems an' stuff, but someone has to put the brakes on these programs to make sure they're properly stewarded all the way down the line.

... They will elect him again, because no one has figured out how to counter him, or how to include those who support Trump.

^--- This. There isn't anyone that can currently achieve this. How do you fight against someone who can seemingly create their own reality and then declare they're the best.. in that false reality? Trump is like the "Cringe" poster-child, yet nobody seems able to bring that to light and capitalize on it?

"Hey, he's a liar! We can use that against him!"
"But, what if he has enough people believing his lies that the truth doesn't matter?"
"Uh... wat?"

[Bishop149]

Trump latest Tweet denies any financial interest in Russia or Saudi Arabia.
At least some such interests are a matter of public record.
It still staggers me how he gets away with such obvious lies. Lies that literately 10s on google can reveal as such.

[Hank001]

Bishop149 notes:

Trump latest Tweet denies any financial interest in Russia or Saudi Arabia.
At least some such interests are a matter of public record.
It still staggers me how he gets away with such obvious lies. Lies that literately 10s on google can reveal as such.

Someone on his staff has indoctrinated him in "Orwellian New Speak". Trump's "lies" are the new "truth". Contradictory information is "Old Speak" that should be considered "fake news" and marks one as recidivist and therefore an "enemy of the people". You either embrace Trump's statements as being "correct" or become counter to the establishment. Now to embrace a postitve attitude towards the government one must remember that all truth is relative and fluid and must be established by the leadership and revealed to you for it to be considered the "approved truth". The main thing to remember is, if the Leader says it then it becomes Truth. To deny these new "truths" is to deny your loyalty to the country.

Embrace the new truth... Ingestion of large amounts of alcohol and sleeping with a loaded gun under your pillow helps in attaining the government approved mindset.

[BugMeister]

The only question is are the tax loopholes being employed, legal or not. If legal, they are simply playing by the rules. No one can complain.

- shall I answer that question for you? - THEY ARE ILLEGAL. - get it?

Are they? Do you know precisely which laws have allegedly been broken? If you are right, I would expect to see handcuffs breaking out all over. If you are wrong, I would expect to see what we are seeing...a bunch of non-specific grumbling.

- how does 25 years experience of working in the Inland Revenue grab you?
- if you want to know precisely which laws have been broken, I suggest you look up the relevant statutes on the internet..
- I'm pretty sure that the US authorities are familiar with the essential regulations regarding tax law..
- as far as I am aware, the IRS is already investigating Trump, Kushner and the Trump Organisation as part of Mr Mueller's enquiries,
- as are the Federal Authorities in New York City, regarding building regulations and employment statutes..

- if Trump continues to pour scorn on these authorities, I am sure they will be most keen to prove matters in court, if necessary
- just don't expect a swift rush to judgement

[Hank001]

Here's a new Robert Reich video with a few facts I wasn't aware of, but I checked them out and with Trump wanting to excuse Saudi Arabia's fatal escapade in Turkey is becoming clear that Trump believes the only way to go is Totalitarianism.

America's Most Dangerous Export

And yeah, expect some to ask, what's so bad about sucking up to dictators if it makes America strong.

Zieg Hiel

[Grim Lock]

Soo putting a certain flavor of person in charge emboldens other people of that flavor, WOW MIND BLOWN!!! well not really. That's part of why a two party system is such crap.

Ow and about the tax issue;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2q-Csk-ktc

[Hank001]

Grim Lock notes:

Soo putting a certain flavor of person in charge emboldens other people of that flavor, WOW MIND BLOWN!!! well not really. That's part of why a two party system is such crap.

Yeah it's called Democracy within a Republic. Better Google those two terms before they no longer apply to the US. After that Google Facism and Totalitarianism.