Brexit

[Golden_Gonads]

I'm surprised at the low UK turnout given the publicity it got. Yes it's high for an EU election, but still...

As to the 35% no-deal, 40% leave, that's... Tripe. People voted differently for different things they would in a general election or referendum. It also doesn't account for pro-leave-with-deal parties.


Still, I'm pleasantly surprised. I honestly thought the Idiot Farage's party would gain an extra 10 or so seats compared to what they did.

[Chips]

Think it was updated then, or maybe it was a different page (as they do tend to have the same stats on many sometimes) - it was a quote from a Professor chap.

[Memnoch]

34.9% pro-Brexit (Brexit Party and UKIP), 40.4% anti-Brexit (Lib Dems, Greens, Change UK, SNP and Plaid Cymru), 9.1% Conservative and 14.1% Labour. They even point out that the Labour Party's stance on Brexit is currently entirely unclear.

The Conservatives are essentially pro-leave so no need to leave them on the fence, so that's another 9.1% you missed. As far as Labour are concerned, I don't think they even know where they stand but even if they were 50/50 it still looks bad for the anti-Brexit camp.

So that anti-Brexit figure begins to look a little shaky. How long before they demand another re-run of this vote?

[pjknibbs]

The Conservatives are essentially pro-leave so no need to leave them on the fence, so that's another 9.1% you missed.

*I* didn't miss anything, I was quoting from the website...and if you think the Conservatives are entirely pro-Brexit you must not have been following the news for the last thirty years or so. They're probably more split on the issue than the Labour party is.

[Memnoch]

and if you think the Conservatives are entirely pro-Brexit you must not have been following the news for the last thirty years or so. They're probably more split on the issue than the Labour party is.

The split seems to be on how to leave, not whether we should leave.

[Chips]

and if you think the Conservatives are entirely pro-Brexit you must not have been following the news for the last thirty years or so. They're probably more split on the issue than the Labour party is.

The split seems to be on how to leave, not whether we should leave.

Not quite... (2016 referendum).
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/how-mps ... 4110245462

According to a survey of all 650 MPs carried out by the Press Association ahead of the referendum on June 23:

:: 480 MPs said they would be voting Remain, including 184 Conservatives

:: 159 MPs said they would be voting Leave, including 139 Conservatives

:: 11 MPs were undeclared, including four Conservatives

This gives Remain a notional Commons majority of at least 310.

Some 218 Labour MPs said they would vote Remain while just 11 backed Leave

Also:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/h ... um-9187679
https://www.politicshome.com/news/europ ... -eu-stance
https://fullfact.org/online/referendum- ... stituency/

[red assassin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48419144 Shocking developments in the Labour party as Corbyn is non-committal about something...

[pjknibbs]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48419144 Shocking developments in the Labour party as Corbyn is non-committal about something...

The real odd thing about that article is that it said the Labour party had a Brexit stance, which hasn't been in evidence as far as I've seen.

[Bishop149]

But now you want a say in how that's defined. You've got one, you've elected officials into Parliament. So you've got/had your say already - by the General Election and elected representatives. Just like we have our say in Europe already as you point out above by the exact same mechanism.

I'd agree with this 100% if our Parliament was able to tell its arse from its elbow on this issue.
If our elected officials could sit down and trash out an acceptable compromise representative of a country split 48/52 then I'd be all for it.
If they instead failed to do that and instead presented a different, properly thought out, visions of our future in Europe and then sought an mandate for them via a General election I'd be all for that too.
But they have singularly failed to do any of that haven't they? They only STARTED talking to each other once our 2 years was all but up. Prior to that Mrs May's approach was to treat a mandate of 52% as one of 100% and fail to get it past even her own bloody party, let alone any one else.
So if you don't want a fresh mandate to clarify things what, prey tell, would you suggest?

So moving on. . . . EU election results.
Well all that is clear is that it was close enough that both sides of the Brexit debate can claim victory, so little has changed there then.
Turn out was pretty pathetic though, far less than the referendum so any comparisons are a little moot.
It's depressing that in this country the thing was treated as a proxy Brexit vote rather than what it actually is, but if we ignore our own egotistical posturing thankfully the rest of Europe seems to have moved in a direction I'd approve of, the traditional centrists faltering, the expected Far Right surge fizzled and liberals and greens make gains. All good.

Well, as much as I don't like it, the Brexit party (formed all of about three weeks ago) has absolutely smashed it out of the park in the EU elections. Sad times, ho hum.

Meh, they are mostly just Farage's New vehicle so have just picked up all the UKIP vote and a few defections from the two main parties.
It is a little depressing however how many utter scumbags we now have representing us on the European stage just because people wanted to vote for the word "Brexit".
They could have run a dog turd with the word "Brexit" on it and the said turd would have been duly elected
In fact this isn't far from the truth, I'll try and dig it up but a piece was published last week that dug into the history of every single one of the Brexit party candidates and wow, the words "wretched hive of scum and villainy" come to mind.
Most of them can be summed up with: Disaster capitalist with history of being very VERY racist.

One statistic to pour some cold water on Farage's party:
Number of people who voted for the Brexit Party: 5,248,533
Number of people who signed the "Revoke Article 50 petition": 6,085,413
So even if we assume a 13% fraud rate on the petition (analytics show it's no where near that) there are still more people in favour of putting the breaks on Brexit that pursuing Farage's vision of it.

[Chips]

But now you want a say in how that's defined. You've got one, you've elected officials into Parliament. So you've got/had your say already - by the General Election and elected representatives. Just like we have our say in Europe already as you point out above by the exact same mechanism.

I'd agree with this 100% if our Parliament was able to tell its arse from its elbow on this issue.

Very true, but do you assume EU Parliaments (or any) are any different?

If our elected officials could sit down and trash out an acceptable compromise representative of a country split 48/52 then I'd be all for it.

Strictly speaking, they don't have to. The only reason they have is because the Conservatives called a snap General election and lost their ... relatively modest majority to become only workable via vote trades with the DUP. Throw in a good handful of those who are die hard Europhiles (bless them) and she'd never get it through without opposition anyway.

I'm not aware of any political party who has won outright majority then executing any policy based on negotiating "what's best" with the opposition and other parties (except during a time of war perhaps?). If Labour get in at the next election I don't believe Corbyn will be consulting the Tories or Liberals upon whether nationalisation of various industries really in our best interests. A working Government doesn't have to work out what's best for the nation based on representing 100% of the electorate, they go by the majority that voted on them in based upon their policies as the basis for their mandate. Otherwise, we'd never get anything done. Ever.

... Prior to that Mrs May's approach was to treat a mandate of 52% as one of 100% .

Not quite sure you get the whole point of a vote. I know you do, but

Politics does usually become interesting for all the wrong reasons, but hopefully it'll motivate and engage the "younger" generation. Depressing to be able to say younger generation now

Starting to come around to the idea of a second referendum - mainly due to morbid curiosity based upon the outcome - whichever way it went

[BugMeister]

worth looking at - outright lies lead to Brexit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VukaSbkW2VQ
- who would'a guessed..?

we're use to being governed by the wealthy and privileged - whether we like it or not..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgMRiA9dZQs

we take it in good humour, what other choice have we..??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOzAzH7u9P8

- but we all know it's a totally crappy (- and horribly expensive!) system..

[euclid]

Elton's rage agains Brexit but some people think that he should not have an opinon on politics.

Cheers Euclid

[pjknibbs]

Elton John has as much right to an opinion on political matters as Lawrence Meyers does, and as much right to voice that opinion as well.

[BugMeister]

- whereas in fact, opinions count for nought in matters of state..
..the decision to call for a referendum was an act of political cowardice, nothing more nothing less..
- as any fool knows, important matters of state should never be conducted in this fashion..
- the process was deeply flawed - at best, it ought to have been regarded merely as an advisory document..
- the close margin was a dead giveaway ..it ought to have been expected..

- you will see how much "opinion" Farage displays whenever and wherever he is given an opportunity to "speechify" his racist/divisive claptrap..
- it's a sure and true sign that he lacks any statesmanship qualities whatsoever..

- just like Trump, a grinning clown..
- eventually to grow teeth..

[BugMeister]

- with fond memories of the Monster Raving Loony Party..
- meet the bonkers brigade:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-comments

- wtf..!!

- more "behind the bike-sheds" reporting from Jonathan Pie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yRHQtMQnk

- yet another reason to resist a "no deal" Brexit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HDFegpX5gI

- Stephen Fry lays out the underlying power struggle..

[Ronald Sandoval]

LOL was watching the victoria derbyshire show this morning as she talked to some conservative mp's about thier leadership competition when out of the blue she calls Jeremy Hunt (Jeremy <deleted>) omg lol
looks like the word is not allowed

[Alan Phipps]

No it isn't allowed and please stop trying to get around the swear filter. It really isn't being clever.

[Bishop149]

LOL was watching the victoria derbyshire show this morning as she talked to some conservative mp's about thier leadership competition when out of the blue she calls Jeremy Hunt (Jeremy <deleted>) omg lol

An extremely common error.
There's a complialtion doing the rounds today of all the times its been made on air. . . . and its A LOT.
Making him CU-lture Secretary really didn't help.

In other news we now take you live to the Tory Leadership race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeiGLSy-1zU

Even the banner in the background is apropos
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Dominic Raab whipped off a mask to reveal he's actually Rik Mayall doing a bit having faked his own death.

[Ronald Sandoval]

Well i have to say after looking at the clip many times she says it was a slip of the tongue i have to say i really dont believe her at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYocVFUncys
I guess i was a bit naive but after looking at all tongue slips mostly from bbc presenters you have to laugh at the idea of BBC impartiality

[Bishop149]

Wow, so post-Brexit Britain is now an actual setting for a fictional dystopia is a video game.
. . . . yeah, "fictional". . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6kNQrY5ydQ