Brexit

[Bishop149]

I suspect legal Twitter is subjecting this bloody thing (a nearly 600 page long document) to FAR more scrutiny than those who will be voting on it tomorrow.
Take the following for example.

ARTICLE 166 - Decisions and recommendations
1. The Joint Committee shall, for the purposes of this Agreement, have the power to adopt
decisions in respect of all matters for which this Agreement so provides and to make appropriate
recommendations to the Union and the United Kingdom.
2. The decisions adopted by the Joint Committee shall be binding on the Union and the United
Kingdom, and the Union and the United Kingdom shall implement those decisions. They shall have
the same legal effect as this Agreement.
3. The Joint Committee shall adopt its decisions and make its recommendations by mutual
consent.

Rule 10 - Publicity and Confidentiality
1. Unless otherwise decided by the co-chairs, the meetings of the Joint Committee shall be
confidential.
2. Where the Union or the United Kingdom submits information considered as confidential or
protected from disclosure under its laws and regulations to the Joint Committee or any
specialised committee, the other party shall treat that information received as confidential.
3. Without prejudice to paragraph 2, the Union and the United Kingdom may each decide
individually on whether to publish, the decisions and recommendations adopted by the Joint
Committee in their respective official publication journals.

So, this outlines that there shall be a body responsible for facilitating and administering this agreement (composed of members from both the EU and UK) whose decisions are to:
a) Carry the full weight of both UK and EU law.
b) Be confidential by default.
c) Not even subject to even basic scrutiny by either elected government.
I can not find anything in there about how this body is to be appointed.

It is essentially the most fevered conspiracy theory of the most fervent Brexiteer made manifest.
What the actual. . . .


Edit: Also quite a bit of evidence emerging that this deal is just a ploy to deliver no deal by the back door anyway.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... itics-live
- Pass this deal.
- Benn act circumvented.
- Sit on hands for 2 years / actively sabotage the next phase.
- No deal by default again.
This seems like a plan contingent on winning a GE at some point which is by no means certain, but I guess would be at least a little more likely if this deal does pass.

[Observe]

I wonder how Brexit will affect trade between Britain and non-EU nations?

Case in point is the collapse in UK-New Zealand trade when Britain joined the EU. In 1960 Britain received over fifty percent of New Zealand exports; by 2007 it had dropped to around five percent. After Brexit, Britain be free to strike trade agreements with other nations independent of the EU. This may not necessarily be a bad thing for non-EU countries.

[Ketraar]

They were always able to do trade deals with nations outside EU. Not sure why this is a notion that keeps popping up.

Chances are that deals from one nation goes down or up depending more on money than anything else. In fact I know of non-EU countries that use strong relations of EU nations as a starting point to get into the whole EU market, cases of Angola or Brasil for example.

If the UK has no deal than maybe prices go up enough to make non-EU countries "competitive" in some sort of negative benefit, but if the deal is done there wont be much difference especially wrt to trade anyway (which is the whole point of the deal to begin with).

As some have pointed out, the UK is likely to end up in pretty much the same spot as before (slight generalization) but without the ability to influence EU policy directly.

MFG

Ketraar

[RegisterMe]

They were always able to do trade deals with nations outside EU. Not sure why this is a notion that keeps popping up.

Eh? If you're a member of the EU then trade becomes the responsibility of the EU as a bloc rather than at the individual member state level.

[Grim Lock]

They were always able to do trade deals with nations outside EU. Not sure why this is a notion that keeps popping up.

Eh? If you're a member of the EU then trade becomes the responsibility of the EU as a bloc rather than at the individual member state level.

Edited, well kindoff lol

https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/policy-making/

Edit2: Also would like to add that you can trade with whomever you want pretty much though, if the EU hasn't made any deals with a specific country WTO rules apply.

[Ketraar]

I can only speak in (slightly) more detail about Portugal and say that for example that we have Trade deals with Brasil, which is our 10th Trade Partner.
http://www.revista.portugalglobal.pt/AI ... rPortugal/#/

While the rules and standards are based on EU there are at least a few deals specific to PT and BR. For example we have a freedom of movement type agreement, so much so that after 5 years people from Brasil can have citizenship, just to mention one.

MFG

Ketraar

[euclid]

.... If you're a member of the EU then trade becomes the responsibility of the EU as a bloc rather than at the individual member state level.

True but the process is not that difficult as the long list of trade agreements with non-EU countries suggests. Btw, Brazil is one of them.

Cheers Euclid

[RegisterMe]

.... If you're a member of the EU then trade becomes the responsibility of the EU as a bloc rather than at the individual member state level.

True but the process is not that difficult as the long list of trade agreements with non-EU countries suggests. Btw, Brazil is one of them.

Cheers Euclid

I'm not disputing that . I'm just saying that the EU manages trade deals with non-EU countries on behalf of all EU member states. Note that trading on WTO terms is, by definition, not a trade deal. It's the default in the absence of a trade deal.

Also note that I don't buy into the Brexiteer "numerous, easy, lucrative trade deals outside of the EU" line either.

[Ketraar]

Well maybe its not called deal but you do trade and other... agreements(?) directly with non-EU countries, that was my point.

MFG

Ketraar

[RegisterMe]

Well maybe its not called deal but you do trade and other... agreements(?) directly with non-EU countries, that was my point.

MFG

Ketraar

It's limited, ie the EU has to have no competence / EU expertise / regulatory mandate. As an example, let's say the EU had no comprehensive trade deal with the US, and Portugal wanted to do a reciprocal deal with the US where the US opened it's market to Portuguese wine, and Portugal opened its market to US chicken.

Portugal would not be able to do that.

[Grim Lock]

No but portugal could request such a deal to negotiated, from what i can tell such requests are taken very seriously, however the chicken coming from the US can't be below EU standards, so no "chlorine chickens"

[RegisterMe]

No but portugal could request such a deal to negotiated, from what i can tell such requests are taken very seriously, however the chicken coming from the US can't be below EU standards, so no "chlorine chickens"

Precisely.

[Ketraar]

Yes I'm aware and also mentioned that any imports need to uphold existing EU regulations. The point was, there is no real "hindrance" on trade deals when being part of the EU except upholding standards (which are in place for a good reason). The notion that the UK will now somehow be able to do MORE trade with whatever country is unfounded, unless the standards are lowered or prices rise to "make up" for less competitive deals.

MFG

Ketraar

[Golden_Gonads]

"... however the chicken coming from the US can't be below EU standards, so no "chlorine chickens"

Actually, the EU states that chlorinated chickens are likely of a higher standard than unchlorinated ones, it's just that chlorine washing them can cover up a variety of shortcomings in the hygiene chain. It also allows US farmers to get away with very low standards of chicken-welfare.

[Grim Lock]

"... however the chicken coming from the US can't be below EU standards, so no "chlorine chickens"

Actually, the EU states that chlorinated chickens are likely of a higher standard than unchlorinated ones, it's just that chlorine washing them can cover up a variety of shortcomings in the hygiene chain. It also allows US farmers to get away with very low standards of chicken-welfare.

Doesn't mean the EU allows poultry or meat that has been treated like that, it's still not allowed, but it's indeed more about enforcing a higher standard of farming practices.

[RegisterMe]

Yes I'm aware and also mentioned that any imports need to uphold existing EU regulations. The point was, there is no real "hindrance" on trade deals when being part of the EU except upholding standards (which are in place for a good reason). The notion that the UK will now somehow be able to do MORE trade with whatever country is unfounded, unless the standards are lowered or prices rise to "make up" for less competitive deals.

MFG

Ketraar

I think your conclusion is correct. I think you're reasoning is... lacking.

[Tamina]

I just love how Boris Johnson has send a second letter basically saying "please don't" after the first letter asking for an extension of Brexit. Yet, I hate how much charisma he has! Must..resist..

I also wonder if I have to start stashing Cathedral City cheddar cheese in my basement, now. Just realized this is a British product.

Try this, if you can get your hands on it. It's the best cheddar you will ever eat. It's not cheap, but bloody hell is it good, so well worth it if you deserve a treat .

Damn you! How much do you think are the chances for heavy deflation of the British Pound after Brexit?

[RegisterMe]

I just love how Boris Johnson has send a second letter basically saying "please don't" after the first letter asking for an extension of Brexit. Yet, I hate how much charisma he has! Must..resist..

I also wonder if I have to start stashing Cathedral City cheddar cheese in my basement, now. Just realized this is a British product.

Try this, if you can get your hands on it. It's the best cheddar you will ever eat. It's not cheap, but bloody hell is it good, so well worth it if you deserve a treat .

Damn you! How much do you think are the chances for heavy deflation of the British Pound after Brexit?

Come on man, GBPEU is down from ~1.32 at the time of the referendum to ~1.16 now. It was already the best cheddar in existence pre-referendum. Just buy some already!

It is lovely

[berth]

My take on recent developments:

New law: "Prime Minister, you are legally obliged to send a letter requesting an extension."
Boris: "Godammit mother, I hate you.....ahah! Alright then."

(later)

Everyone: "Wtf? You didn't sign it?"
Boris: " Where does it say I had to sign it?"
Everyone: "Ffs it's a letter. Of course you should sign it!"
Boris: "bluster-guffaw-flimflam-getbrexitdone-hoohaw"

I'm lost for words. This guy is proper nuts.

[Chips]

The notion that the UK will now somehow be able to do MORE trade with whatever country is unfounded, unless the standards are lowered or prices rise to "make up" for less competitive deals.

MFG

Ketraar

Never heard it being said that the UK would necessarily do more trade with a target country than if it was in the EU. What i did hear was the argument that the trade deals would be more tailored to the UK's desires rather than the collective EU desires. What does that mean? Less emphasis on ensuring French Cheese, or Italian hams, or Spanish/Greek Olives and being important, and more emphasis on... erm, whatever the UK can export.

It is actually true - when trading on behalf of the block the resulting deal may be "give and take" whereby things the UK would want to be front and centre as are very important to our economy, may be sidelined in favour of the rest of the EU's desires, and therefore during the bargaining not actually achieve as tasty a deal as we'd hope. But that may not be all the story as the below link highlights (sectors and how they operate)

Additionally, will there be any noticeable net benefit? it assumes things we'd like to have feature more prominently may not whatsoever anyway.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ade-policy

Not necessarily.