Brexit

[pjknibbs]

Hell, I dislike Boris with a passion and even I don't think he's aiming to become a dictator.

[Bishop149]

Everyone: "Wtf? You didn't sign it?"
Boris: " Where does it say I had to sign it?"
Everyone: "Ffs it's a letter. Of course you should sign it!"
Boris: "bluster-guffaw-flimflam-getbrexitdone-hoohaw"

The EU in response: We have received your request for an extension in accordance with UK law, and will consider it.

Despite the UK Press having largely fallen for Boris' blustering petulance I'm glad the EU treated it as seriously as it deserved and just ignored it.
There is much talk about whether he committed contempt by sending the second letter and as far as I can tell the consensus of legal opinion is: Probably not, because the EU filed it immediately in the bin.

Anyway the coming political week is going to be one hell of a rollercoster. . . strap in everyone.

[RegisterMe]

This is a worthwhile read - https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/1 ... year-of-no

Can anybody shoot any holes in the argument?

[CBJ]

Seems pretty accurate to me.

The prospect of a trade deal with the US as the alternative to EU membership, or failing that close alignment to the EU, is the stuff of nightmares. Even setting aside the volatility of the current regime's policies on trade and foreign relations, the impact of becoming the massively-weaker partner in such a relationship would be disastrous. As just one example, the NHS almost certainly wouldn't last long, because US pressure to provide "access" to the NHS supply chain (by which they mean the opportunity to charge US-level prices for medicines) as part of the terms of such a deal would quickly make it non-viable as a public service.

[euclid]

From an anonymous FaceBook source:

"The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit Deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world."

Cheers Euclid

[greypanther]

Also from Facebook, via my wife, I saw this:

Oxford University researchers have discovered the densest element yet known to science. The new element, Governmentium ( symbol = Gv ), has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. Particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of Lepton like particles called Pillocks.

Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However it can be detected because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact.

A tiny amount of Governmentium can cause a reaction that would normally take less than a second, take from 4 days to 4 years to complete.

Governmentium has a normal half life of 2 - 6 years. It does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganisation in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.

In fact, Governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganisation will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.

The characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration. The hypothetical quantity is referred to as a critical morass. When catalysed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratum, ( symbol = Ad ), an element that radiates just as much energy as Governmentium, since it has half as many pillocks, but twice as many morons.

Made me chuckle, though may well have been posted here already, maybe even sourced here. However I though it might be appreciated here, and this seemed the place for it.

[chew-ie]

Brexit walks into a bar. The Barman says: “Why the long farce?”
source

Not much left besides joking ...

[RegisterMe]

Made me chuckle, though may well have been posted here already, maybe even sourced here. However I though it might be appreciated here, and this seemed the place for it.

And got a good chuckle out of me too. I recently read one of Stephen Fry's biographies / his latest one (which, on the whole, I enjoyed a lot). I had absolutely no idea at all how much of our comedy scene comes out of Oxbridge.

Good? Bad? I dunno. Makes me laugh? Yup.

[felter]

So Johnson accepted an extension and he is still alive, so much for the, I would rather die in a ditch than ask for an extension. So that turns out to be just another Johnson lie.

[Bishop149]

To be fair to Boris he would have had to get up from in front of those bulldozers in order to go die in the ditch.

Speaking of such pledges let's just all hope professional hate monger Katie Hopkins doesn't make good on this one.
https://twitter.com/KTHopkins/status/11 ... 71872?s=20

[Tycow]

Looks like an election is back on the menu, boys!

[pjknibbs]

Looks like an election is back on the menu, boys!

Yeah, it's a whole two years since the last one, of course what we need now is an election.

[chew-ie]

Would an election solve anything?

To me, it looks like there will be one month of the extension wasted for getting a parliament which then only has very little time left to act in any useful direction.

Wouldn't it be better to get a second referendum? That way the speculations end (remain vs leave) and parliament could concentrate on getting either the deal or revoking of brexit done.

[Bishop149]

Would an election solve anything?

To me, it looks like there will be one month of the extension wasted for getting a parliament which then only has very little time left to act in any useful direction.

Wouldn't it be better to get a second referendum? That way the speculations end (remain vs leave) and parliament could concentrate on getting either the deal or revoking of brexit done.

Probably not. . . . the problems with a GE in brief:
- Our electoral system is farcical, it's entirely possible to win a majority government with 30% of the vote. When trying to resolve an issue split 48:52 this is something of an issue.
- Whilst it was triggered by a single issue it sure as hell won't be fought on one, any specific mandate on Brexit is therefore muddied by other issues.
- Cross party cooperation goes out the window in GEs. Each parties urge to grab up as many seats as possible for themselves seems utterly hard coded. By way of examples the LibDems, for all their anti Brexit rhetoric, have already committed big gun candidates to marginal Labour seats, thus all but handing the seat to the Tories.

Yes, a referendum to provide a fresh more specific and informed mandate from the electorate is the ONLY way out of this mess, but for some reason no one seems willing to see this obvious truth.

[Gavrushka]

I'm surprised no one has started a General Election 2019 thread.

And, you know, I can't remember another election where I felt voting was down to choosing the 'least worst' option. - I feel both 'main' parties have grown too extreme for governance. - I get the impression that the Tories loath everyone who is not rich, and the Labour Party loathe everyone who is, along with one or two additional groupings. It feels like either a return to the 70s with over-high marginal top rates of taxation, which is even more foolhardy now due to globalisation, or a nationalist far right party who don't give a hoot for the vulnerable members of society, or just about any group that they can claim is 'not us.'

My critique partner wrote a couple of near future dystopian novels set in the UK, both making Guardian books of the month, and it looks like both could well be foretellings if the Tories get an absolute majority.

And it's all about Brexit. There's so little objectivity, so much hatred of people with opposing views. - I really don't think the UK will still have all its member countries another 5 years from now, and I really don't think the chasms between opposing factions will ever be healed by a general election. - My view is it'll take more than a generation for a more tolerant society to resurface. I doubt I'll still be alive to see it.

[Bishop149]

If, like me your primary priority is stopping a hard or no deal Brexit then below is a tool that will tell you how best to vote to achieve that.

https://www.getvoting.org/

Tactical voting will work, it worked in 2017 and all indications are that the political landscape is all but unchanged since then . . . except that support for the Tories may have dropped a bit.
I'm lucky, it tells me to vote as I would anyway (relatively safe Labour seat) but if it had told me to vote LibDem I would have held my nose and done so.

[Ketraar]

Much like the US the main issue of UK elections is how the voting process is set up. Stuff like FPTP really needs to go away and have true representative parliaments, not to speak about the very undemocratic house of lords, which is just bonkers imho.

MFG

Ketraar

[CBJ]

I don't disagree with you, but in the context of Brexit it really wouldn't help much. The result of a PR-based voting system right now would almost certainly be a parliament that was as paralysed as the current one. Much as I would like to see us staying in the EU, I don't think doing so by endlessly extending the deadline because our politicians can't come to an agreement is a good way forward.

[Ketraar]

I understand but that is how democracy works, its slow and requires compromise, also often its not as "productive" as people want, but sacrificing true representation because its inconvenient is hardly a better choice. I would argue (based on no evidence at all, so its just me making it up) that MPs are more likely to be "productive" if their re-election is not as safe as it looks to be now.

MFG

Ketraar

[Gavrushka]

Much as I would like to see us staying in the EU, I don't think doing so by endlessly extending the deadline because our politicians can't come to an agreement is a good way forward.

It could be categorised as better than some of the alternatives...

And I *do* feel it is time to see a more representative parliament. Parliament simply seems to be two parties manoeuvring for an electoral advantage, and they don't care who gets injured in the crossfire. - I feel PR will force compromise and consensus in due course, as any party trying to run roughshod over the will of the people will suffer far more due to the greater impact of any voter swing.

There's no guarantee that there's going to be a majority government after a General Election, as Teresa May found out not so long ago.

And I feel parliamentary privilege must be abolished, as should lying to the public outside the House. - We should hold the people who represent us to a far higher standard, just like the police are, and not give them a literal get out of jail card as is currently the case.