Brexit

[felter]

So Boris decided to visit Scotland as part of his pulling the country together on the way to a no deal Brexit and he got a proper Scottish welcome. Turns out he got an earful from the Scottish first minister but it then got even worse, as he also got a frosty reception from the Scottish Conservative leader. So much for he can pull the country together, something tells me he wont want to come back to Scotland anytime soon. Not a reception that he is used to. Wonder what will happen when/if he decides to go to Northern Ireland.

[pjknibbs]

He'd have to be a complete moron not to have expected that reaction--which I'm not ruling out, you understand, just saying. I mean, he's one of the main reasons Brexit is happening, and the Scots really don't like that.

[Bishop149]

So Boris decided to visit Scotland as part of his pulling the country together on the way to a no deal Brexit and he got a proper Scottish welcome.

Also, if you watch carefully at around the 0:45 He tries to usher Nicola Sturgeon into her own office, which she's having none of, good on her.
That sound you're hearing is the death of the Union.

[euclid]

A unification of Ireland seem to not that far fetched anymore. If Scotland's 2020 referendum succeeds then Great Britain will be England and Wales. The latter is subject to change once they discover that Bold Borris' promises are just plain wrong.

Cheers Euclid

[felter]

Trump had called Boris a Britain Trump, in a way he is right as Boris just like Trump just keeps on telling lies. Sturgeon in an interview yesterday said what Boris is saying to the press about leaving the EU without a deal, is different to what he is saying behind closed doors. She blatantly called him a liar and the thing is, it is pretty well documented that he is willing to lie to get his own way.

[BugMeister]

Talking of similarities between Boris and Donny - apart from their dubious relationships over the years..
Cambridge Analytica appears to have played a part in their resistable rise to power..
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ls-confirm

- ironic, eh?

[felter]

Dominic Raab the UK's Foreign Secretary has said:

"We made clear - those in the campaign - that we should strive for a good deal but, if that wasn't available, that we should go on and make a success of Brexit,"

The BBC, Channel 4 and the Guardian newspaper have all looked into it and all of them are kind of coming up short on how any one made it clear, they are discovering it is more like they all dismissed it from happening. So the leave campaigners are being caught in the act of a lie again.

BBC reality check

[Chips]

So? There was/is a deal - it's been negotiated, it's been agreed. Parliament rejected it. Repeatedly. Despite being told by the EU themselves "there is NO OTHER DEAL".
The public voted to leave, a deal was negotiated, Parliament decided they don't want a deal (the only deal possible apparently), which leaves the no deal exit - which was precisely what they, us, everyone, was told would happen if they don't accept the deal negotiated. The one they voted down. Repeatedly. Someone was telling the truth at that point

Anyway, they reap what they sow.

Get really tired of the same old "they lied" - it has been trotted out for 3 years straight, repeatedly... and gotten us precisely no-where. It's changed nothing. It's done nothing. It's a waste of breath pointing it out as it has zero impact, zero effect. Another 3 months of saying "but... they lied" isn't suddenly going to cancel Brexit.

Politicians, from the beginning of time, have lied. Every. Single. Last. One. It's what they do, it's what they've done, it's who they are. If you want something to change over the lies then people need to be a little more focused. Get 10m people marching through London (I imagine after the event suddenly people will want to march and so on. Fat lot of good it is afterwards).

[felter]

Whose talking about them lying three years ago were talking about them lying less than three days ago.

OOPS, looks like the Tories just lost another seat in the house to the lib dems, which means they now have a majority of 1. Not looking to good for Boris, who has also been telling porkies in the last week, not just 3 years ago.

[pjknibbs]

Just because we make jokes about it (How do you know a politician is lying? His lips are moving) doesn't mean we should roll over and accept it when politicians are caught out in a lie, or allow them to get away with it. For Boris to have got the PM job he was angling for after all his lies and all his bull is a travesty, let's not pretend otherwise.

[BugMeister]

- here, here - well said pjknibbs..!!
- it's about time we called them out for their deliberate lies and obvious machinations..
- to call them merely incompetent is not enough..

- this whole orchestra should be disbanded, once and for all..
- they're all playing out of tune..

- and it sure as heck ain't jazz

[Chips]

So what are you going to do about it?

Also, fully aware you were talking about 3 days ago. I was saying "for the past 3 years..." it's been going on and called out relentlessly for the entire time. Has anything happened? Anything changed? Nope. Past 100 years, anything happens? Nope. Don't think I am sat here saying "Lie away chaps, it's all jolly good" - as that's absolutely not what i've said. What I have said is that whining on about it/pointing it out isn't going to make any difference. If you want it to be different, get involved and campaign about it.

As I said before, I'm just sat back watching it all go to pot. Could I do anything about it? I honestly don't think it's worth me getting upset over - but I've probably got less exposure to the outcomes than many others in the general population. Aware some will be the hardest hit, but ironically, they were the ones voting for Brexit so... let them eat their cake (I've pointed out before that they may have felt it made no difference as they had nothing while in the EU and see nothing changing, so voted to leave because maybe something happens to be better). Likewise the politicians who said "we cannot have hard Brexit" are the ones voting down what appeared at the time the ONLY way to avoid it (as both Tories and Labour both said they'd honor the referendum, implying Brexit *will* happen, and EU said no other deal allowable). Again, now panic sets in with them... get them to choke on their own actions. The entire Parliament on all sides is responsible for the outcome if it's hard exit - because they could have stopped it; Tories primarily, but the lack of opposition, lack of options, lack of anything by the parties is just pathetic. Their own interests ahead of the country.

I do semi enjoy hearing some areas after 2-3 years of "anti Brexiters you lost blah blah", and now it may be no deal and they're starting to say "wait, what?". But back to point made - Politicians lie? *indifference* Known that from day one.

Amusing that the Tory now have majority of 1 with DUP - which means, they have nowt as there's enough Tories who won't go with Govt. So either try to bypass parliament, or General Election to get that Oct 31st he's banging on about. Shortest PM for many a year? Hope so, but I absolutely don't want Corbyn regardless. Which makes me think he's going to somehow wangle a deal... against all odds, *something* may happen. A good outcome? Can't even speculate

All Labour need to do is depose their leader. Absolutely NO balls that party.

[felter]

So you think we should all just sit back and ignore the fact that they are lying to us, because they lie and we should all just accept that fact.

I'm sorry but that's BS they should be held accountable for every little thing they say. These people are not just some random Joe Blogg, they are responsible for each and every one of our livelihoods. When they do or say something it effects us all, one little thing has the potential of ruining our country. When they lie it shows their level of honour to the citizens of the UK, if they are willing to lie to all of us openly then they should be held accountable for that lie that means we have to stand up and say that is a LIE. You say it doesn't matter as it does nothing I have to disagree because calling them out as a liar shows that they are telling lies, it lets everyone know that they will lie and what those lies are. This leads to the point that whenever they open their mouths and talk we can stand back and say, this person is a well known liar, why should we believe anything that they say, it's all about reputation a proven liar has a pretty bad one, one that cannot be trusted.

A prime example is Trump, he tells so many lies, whenever he says anything you have to stand back and wait for it to be proven as a none lie you have to accept what he is saying is probably more than likely a lie. You cannot believe a word that comes out of his mouth and that is because his lies have all been called out as just that, being lies. People didn't just accept his lies like you are saying we should they stood up and called out those lies letting us all know what he is like and he cannot be trusted to tell the truth. Johnson is turning out to just be another Trump who has problem telling the truth, we need to be informed when he is telling those lies, he has to be held accountable. It is wrong to just sit back and ignore them just because you like the lies they are telling. Lies are still lies even if you agree with them.

If you want to be a blind marionette that is used and abused as a proverbial puppet because you don't want to hear it, fair enough, but don't expect others to want to be that puppet with someone pulling their strings.

[Chips]

So you think we should all just sit back and ignore the fact that they are lying to us, because they lie and we should all just accept that fact.

Absolutely NOT what i said and you full well know it. Read again. Sheesh

Honestly... you couldn't try harder to misconstrue what I did write - so A for effort.

The "do nothing" is my own personal apathy towards the hand wringing of MP's, media, farmers (some of whom voted for Brexit) and other Brexit voters who are going "hang on, wait...erm". I'd quite like them to enjoy the fruits of their labour - but that does not mean I'm sat here saying "HARD BREXIT FULL SPEED AHEAD!".

[felter]

I'm surprised that there has not been any comment on the days goings on. So BoJo finally did it, he closed down Parliament either to try and get his own way or to save his own ass, due to this, I'm now predicting some major riots in the not so distant future. I think he has done a very bad thing, he goes on about Democracy and the thing he did today is probably the most anti democratic thing anyone could do. Saying that I'm also predicting that BoJo will not be the PM come the end of October, I actually suspect he will not even make it to October.

The press would like you to think it is just the ones who are against Brexit who are not happy about what he did, but I know Brexiteers who are not happy about this either, because it sets a bad president, not going your way just suspend parliament and do what you want. I really do hope this kills his political career.

[RegisterMe]

I'm not prepared to riot about this (and would run a mile). I am prepared to protest about this.

I've not done that before.

[Ketraar]

I was kinda shocked that this was a thing that can be done. oO
Kinda feels like in Rome when they suspended democracy for 6 months.

The UK system is weird and I'm having a hard time getting it. You have a queen that is the head of state, I presume similar to what a president in a parliamentary democracy would be, then you have a speaker of the house, which in my country is Nr. 2 ranking after the president (and also takes over the presidents office when the actual president is out of country or "busy" elsewhere) and also oversees parliamentary procedures. In our system these are the only two people that can "close" parliament (as the President dissolve it and call for new elections). The prime Minister, as a appointed position, is "merely" the executor of the mandate the parliament defines and as such has no power whatsoever wrt to maters of parliament procedure, even though they are the "head of state".

So its really odd for me to understand how this is even possible or if there are any details missing that are not being communicated in the press.

MFG

Ketraar

[felter]

It's the part where the queen actually has no real power, if you take the closing or suspending of parliament, it is not really her decision as she is advised on what to do on political matters, and it just so happens the person who is advising her on these political matters in this case on whether or not to suspend parliament, just so happens to be the exact same person who is wanting to suspend parliament for his own personal needs. Talk about a conflict of interest.

The thing that Pisses me off the most, is that BoJo was not elected to be the PM. About the only thing he should be able to do right now is for him to call a General election. Besides I don't even think he should be a politician to start with let alone be the PM, as he only knows how to be rich and spoiled and has no clue about the real people who live in this country. Just because you have a bought for expensive education, does not mean you are the right person for the job, especially his job.

[Ketraar]

Sure but still "advising" is just that, then the person with the actual power makes a decision no?

Also Prime Ministers are not elected in most countries, they are appointed by the majority of elected officials/representatives, which makes him/her indirectly elected.

MFG

Ketraar

[pjknibbs]

Sure but still "advising" is just that, then the person with the actual power makes a decision no?

No, because if the Queen were to make a decision like that herself there would be the mother of all constitutional crises (yes, I know we don't have a constitution, you know what I mean), because she would be bypassing the democratic process. As things stand, she is following the instructions of someone who is at least an elected member of parliament, even if he's only prime minister because a majority of 160,000 people voted for him (out of a populace in excess of 60 million).

EDIT: By the way, if the next question is "Why didn't she refuse to do this?", see above--that would be her making a decision contrary to the elected government.

Pretty sure the first thing on the agenda when Parliament reconvenes will be a vote of no confidence in the government, and while I'm all for Boris being thrown out on his ear, that doesn't get us any closer to an acceptable Brexit deal. I think such a move would make a no-deal *more* likely, not less.