Brexit

[felter]

Shamelessly cribbed from another forum:-

"Nigel Farage walks into a pub and says, ‘I'll have a pint of beer please?’ The barman pours a pint, then throws it all over Farage.

'What did you do that for?' says Farage, drenched to the skin.

'Because you're in a metaphor which illustrates the stupidity of asking for something but not stipulating how you wanted it delivered, you frog-faced snivelling git!'

'But I'm still thirsty, so I want a pint -- this time in a glass!' says Farage.

'You can't ask again!' said the barman.

'Why not?' snivels Farage.

'Democracy.' says the barman".

Wasn't a Scottish bar, as the last time he went into one of them alone he got chased down the street, that's why he needs a police escort whenever he comes to Scotland..

[BugMeister]

the lunacy continues..
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/s ... e-metaphor

Summary please. I come here to hear the opinions of members. I am perfectly capable of reading news articles without coming here. Thanks.

- do you not see the madness, or are you just trying to ignore it..??

- more insanity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5XfPfYLOUk

[felter]

the lunacy continues..
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/s ... e-metaphor

Summary please. I come here to hear the opinions of members. I am perfectly capable of reading news articles without coming here. Thanks.

- do you not see the madness, or are you just trying to ignore it..??

- more insanity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5XfPfYLOUk

Me thinks you are in the wrong forum.

[linolafett]

Its just appreciated to talk about the content of articles and videos.
Simply linking a video/articel without talking about it is not a great way to keep a dicussion maintained.

[pjknibbs]

Its just appreciated to talk about the content of articles and videos.
Simply linking a video/articel without talking about it is not a great way to keep a dicussion maintained.

Especially when your entire description of the article is "the lunacy continues", thus forcing readers to read the entire article to figure out what you're talking about.

[BugMeister]

more legal manoeuvring:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMGirLS4EBg

Boris vs The Clash..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0pTpwqkB48

[CBJ]

BugMeister, once again you are just posting links to videos with no commentary or opinion. You have been asked by multiple people, including moderators, to stop doing this.

Nobody wants to prevent you from entering into the debate, but you need to actually make a point of your own. By all means include a link, but if you're going to do that then have the courtesy to explain what it's about and why it's relevant to your point.

Meanwhile, back on the topic in hand, the Supreme Court have waded in and the waters are now muddier than ever!

[BugMeister]

Boris has blown it..
we all know that a Referendum is not the same as a vote..
Constitutional matters are not handled in this fashion - ever..

- we were all conned - including Her Majesty

- a disgraceful state of affairs..

[matthewfarmery]

The UK supreme court ruling pretty much ruled against Borris, and he is now between a rock and a hard place. MPs should start sitting soon again at Parliament, Borris could try and shut them down again, but I think he would be a real fool if he does that.

The problem is, Labour aren't that much better off, Corbyn is still sitting on the fence, wont say which he will support until after a general election, so you have two if the biggest parties as a total shambles. I personally wouldn't vote for either. Problem is, with the voting past the post voting system, its going to be really hard to put another party in power. I sense a hung Parliament at least, but I wish there was a general election, and clear out those MPs that don't deserve to be there. (which equals most).

Parliament will now try and prevent no deal, even though that is the default on the 31 of october, which then means, asking for a extension, and Borris would never do that, (him saying he would rather be seen in a ditch, or words to that effect) (those are close to what he said)

So are we leaving? staying? or what? we are in uncertain and uncharted waters. we need a general election, but then again, with the way that Labour are behaving, especailly the party leader, I wouldn't trust them as far as I can threw them. So what are we going to do?

[pjknibbs]

If it were almost anyone other than Boris in charge I'd be livid at his shenanigans. As it is, I just find it incredibly amusing that all his manoeuvring and lying to get the top job has landed him here. Who knows, maybe that "buffoon" facade isn't as much of a facade as we all thought, and he really *is* that much of an idiot?

[Alan Phipps]

"So what are we going to do?"

Given that what could happen next is as much in the hands of the EU and their constituent countries' leaders (each with power of veto in some cases), we in the UK don't have total control over what we can expect to do whatever we collectively may decide we want.

[felter]

Personally I think the first thing Broken Boris should do tomorrow after parliament reconvenes, is quit. He has shown he cannot do the job of Prime Minister, that he cannot be trusted to do the job of Prime Minister. He has been shown to have lied to Parliament, to the Queen but most importantly he lied to the people of this country he took us all to be fools, and if you actually support him after this then you are the fool he thinks you are.

[fiksal]

My next (third?) question.

What's the penalty for doing something that the court afterwards says you could not?

Personally I think the first thing Broken Boris should do tomorrow after parliament reconvenes, is quit.

Does that work? Can you shame people who didnt perform their task into quitting?

[Rug]

Corbyn is still sitting on the fence, wont say which he will support until after a general election

I was under the impression that Labour's plan was (if they become the government) to negotiate a deal (the No Deal exit being totally unacceptable), then have a referendum allowing the public to choose between the negotiated deal, or remain. They would then implement the result.

Perhaps that is sitting on the fence to you, but I think it isn't really. It seems more like a scheme to remain, or to leave with a set of rules for dealing with the EU that the public has actually chosen based on details, not nonsense plastered on the side of a bus ...

Rug

[Observe]

Couldn't Brexit be ruled null and void due to key issues not having been publicly discussed when the referendum was originally put to the voters? Simply voting up or down to leave the EU, seems like a rather shoddy piece of legislature. In criminal cases, new evidence can warrant a new trial. In the case of Brexit, the new evidence is all the details that were left out in the beginning. No shame in admitting defeat and then putting it up for a new vote with clearer understanding.

But, what do I know? I don't understand how things work "over there".

[BugMeister]

Couldn't Brexit be ruled null and void due to key issues not having been publicly discussed when the referendum was originally put to the voters? Simply voting up or down to leave the EU, seems like a rather shoddy piece of legislature. In criminal cases, new evidence can warrant a new trial. In the case of Brexit, the new evidence is all the details that were left out in the beginning. No shame in admitting defeat and then putting it up for a new vote with clearer understanding.

But, what do I know? I don't understand how things work "over there".

it was never a VOTE in the first place - it was a referendum..

there is a distinct difference..

[Mightysword]

Personally I think the first thing Broken Boris should do tomorrow after parliament reconvenes, is quit. He has shown he cannot do the job of Prime Minister, that he cannot be trusted to do the job of Prime Minister. He has been shown to have lied to Parliament, to the Queen but most importantly he lied to the people of this country he took us all to be fools, and if you actually support him after this then you are the fool he thinks you are.

And how do you think that will help though? In hindsight, do the people who called for Theresa May to go out expected they would get a Borris? I mean in a way it's almost natural progression. May was accused of being too soft, powerless, can't control her own MP ... So it feels almost nature her replacement is like the opposite of that, turn out nobody like it either. It's easy to lose one self in the instant gratification of a change ... but do you exactly have an alternative lining up? Corbyn? Like I said he was the most punch-able guy for me during May's tenure, and from the limited optic of an outsider from the use of his language to his character, I seriously doubt he's the one that can steer this ship. He's probably not as bad as Borris but I doubt he would deliver anything better than May. In the end, you would just get rid of the short term problem without a guarantee thing will improve or wouldn't get worse.

Also, pretty much all the chatters I heard have been coming from Borris's dissesnters and other officials. What is his current popularity with the populate?

[pjknibbs]

Does that work? Can you shame people who didnt perform their task into quitting?

That would require Boris to have any sense of shame whatsoever, which his past record would suggest he does not.

[Bishop149]

Personally I think the first thing Broken Boris should do tomorrow after parliament reconvenes, is quit. He has shown he cannot do the job of Prime Minister, that he cannot be trusted to do the job of Prime Minister. He has been shown to have lied to Parliament, to the Queen but most importantly he lied to the people of this country he took us all to be fools, and if you actually support him after this then you are the fool he thinks you are.

I doubt he'll quit, I suspect he'd have to be dragged out the job kicking and screaming.
The obvious way forward for the opposition now would be:
- Vote of no confidence in the government (which given the fact the government has been found to be acting illegally, I'd imagine they'd win pretty easily)
- Interim coalition government formed (although who would lead it is likely to be problematic)
- Ask EU for an extension on A50
- General election

Edit: Ah, ok. . . . apparently they can't no confidence vote because that could be twisted by Boris and co into making sure we crashout on the 31st. FFS, they just won't play fair will they? So the first step is instead.
- Maintain current government until they hit legal deadline, THEN trigger the rest of it.

I saw another excellent point made on Twitter.
The judiciary has ruled that the executive was abusing it's power in order to silence the legislative (from which it derives it's democratic mandate). All well and good, everything functioning exactly as it should. . . separation of powers etc.
BUT this only happened because some private individuals of considerable wealth and legal means took private action against the government. I've been trawling the legal twittersphere about this and it would seem that this is as intended. It is the role of citizens to stand up to government when it acts unlawfully.
Which rather begs the question: What if there are no citizens with both the means and the motivation to do?
What's the implication of this in light of the fact that government has all but abolished legal aid?
It's all rather worrying.

[CBJ]

Well, parliament really didn't cover itself with glory on it's first day back. Neither side was blameless, but Boris and his Attorney General (the guy who advised Boris, incorrectly, that his actions in shutting down parliament were legal) provided an embarrassing display of bad-tempered, bad-taste political point-scoring, not to mention an utter lack of humility in the face of the judgement passed down by the Supreme Court. It's pretty obvious what their strategy is here (hint, it involves shouting louder than your opponent, appealing to populism at every turn, and not giving two hoots about honesty and integrity as long as it gets you the result you want - sound familiar?).

To answer a question from earlier:

What's the penalty for doing something that the court afterwards says you could not?

In this case, there is no specific penalty. It's not a criminal action as such. In "normal" times it would probably have resulted in a resignation but, as is becoming abundantly clear, these aren't normal times.

Does that work? Can you shame people who didnt perform their task into quitting?

Again, in normal times, you might well be able to. Right now, though, not a chance.