Brexit

[Ronald Sandoval]

LOL was watching the victoria derbyshire show this morning as she talked to some conservative mp's about thier leadership competition when out of the blue she calls Jeremy Hunt (Jeremy <deleted>) omg lol
looks like the word is not allowed

[Alan Phipps]

No it isn't allowed and please stop trying to get around the swear filter. It really isn't being clever.

[Bishop149]

LOL was watching the victoria derbyshire show this morning as she talked to some conservative mp's about thier leadership competition when out of the blue she calls Jeremy Hunt (Jeremy <deleted>) omg lol

An extremely common error.
There's a complialtion doing the rounds today of all the times its been made on air. . . . and its A LOT.
Making him CU-lture Secretary really didn't help.

In other news we now take you live to the Tory Leadership race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeiGLSy-1zU

Even the banner in the background is apropos
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Dominic Raab whipped off a mask to reveal he's actually Rik Mayall doing a bit having faked his own death.

[Ronald Sandoval]

Well i have to say after looking at the clip many times she says it was a slip of the tongue i have to say i really dont believe her at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYocVFUncys
I guess i was a bit naive but after looking at all tongue slips mostly from bbc presenters you have to laugh at the idea of BBC impartiality

[Bishop149]

Wow, so post-Brexit Britain is now an actual setting for a fictional dystopia is a video game.
. . . . yeah, "fictional". . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6kNQrY5ydQ

[Chips]

Well i have to say after looking at the clip many times she says it was a slip of the tongue i have to say i really dont believe her at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYocVFUncys
I guess i was a bit naive but after looking at all tongue slips mostly from bbc presenters you have to laugh at the idea of BBC impartiality

I don't think there's any water to claims of impartiality bias one way or another; they just have a healthy dislike and lack of respect for our politicians - which is mirrored amongst the general populace. Either side perceives this as a lack of impartiality against themselves though. But they would

I would not be surprised to find out that, at present, the traditional long term strong allegiances to a political party they hold are threadbare, or don't even exist anymore. Mine don't, and the only people I trust enough to talk Politics with are in a similar frame of mind! Never, as far as I can tell, have any of us questioned, or put so much consideration into, who we'd actually vote for... and why.

[RegisterMe]

This blog - http://eureferendum.com/default.aspx - by a Brexiteer, is really, really good. Even though I disagree with his support for Brexit his analysis, and his criticisms of the shortcomings of the press and that complacency of our politicians is absolutely bang on.

[CBJ]

And so it goes on. As most of us suspected, those who were responsible for negotiating a Brexit deal launched into it with no plan, had no idea what they even meant by it, and had no concept of what the EU would and wouldn't accept. And now we have the person who will almost certainly be our next prime minister continuing the tradition of using outright lies about "ridiculous EU regulations" to gather votes and turn opinion against the EU.

[pjknibbs]

Utterly unsurprising--I've said before that we're in the mess we're in because David Cameron was so convinced of a Remain result that he made no plans for Leave. As for Boris, the old saw that "How can you tell a politician is lying? His lips are moving" was never truer than in his case. His only reason for supporting Brexit was because he saw a chance at the top job if he did so.

[Chips]

Utterly unsurprising--I've said before that we're in the mess we're in because David Cameron was so convinced of a Remain result that he made no plans for Leave.

Well, I'd say that part of the bit about being a remain supporter is you don't plan to lose and so therefore spend time planning for what to do when you lose; you expend your effort trying to win (arguable whether he did of course).
Those championing/voting for Brexit are supposed to do the brexit plan bit, it's they who want it. Turns out what they said was largely cobblers. Instead, we had another remain MP take over (May), who tried to do her best but was snuffed out by all sides. Funnily enough i was reading the other day some Labour MP's expressing regret they hadn't voted for May's deal and that they would have given the chance again.

Just made me think about the day after the original vote - where some were going "I voted leave because I never thought it'd happen... wish I hadn't now". A case of how thick can people get? Now we even have MP's doing it - and they're supposed to be people we elect to lead us. Channelling that chap in Dad's army "we're doooomed".

Yes, we are. Now where's the vino - one requires a top up. May as well enjoy what we've got while we've still got it, because the clowns on all sides "leading" this country are going to see to it that soon joy is in very short supply...

[pjknibbs]

Well, I'd say that part of the bit about being a remain supporter is you don't plan to lose and so therefore spend time planning for what to do when you lose; you expend your effort trying to win (arguable whether he did of course).
Those championing/voting for Brexit are supposed to do the brexit plan bit, it's they who want it.

Er, no, that's utterly wrong. The people who should have been planning for both outcomes of the referendum are the people in power, e.g. the government. The people campaigning for Leave were not in government, had no power, and there was no guarantee they would be in government after the vote either, so what would be the point of them planning anything when they had no ability to implement those plans? I mean, it's certainly arguable that they should have had some plans so they could argue their case on the basis of those plans, but that's a different issue.

[Bishop149]

Siri, give me a visual metaphor for the current state of Brexit.



"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for Brexit!"

[Chips]

Well, I'd say that part of the bit about being a remain supporter is you don't plan to lose and so therefore spend time planning for what to do when you lose; you expend your effort trying to win (arguable whether he did of course).
Those championing/voting for Brexit are supposed to do the brexit plan bit, it's they who want it.

Er, no, that's utterly wrong. The people who should have been planning for both outcomes of the referendum are the people in power, e.g. the government. The people campaigning for Leave were not in government, had no power, and there was no guarantee they would be in government after the vote either, so what would be the point of them planning anything when they had no ability to implement those plans? I mean, it's certainly arguable that they should have had some plans so they could argue their case on the basis of those plans, but that's a different issue.

Utterly disagree. For a starter, some people campaigning for leave WERE in Government.

Cabinet ministers (24 for remain; six for leave)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-35616946

What you mean to say is that the "official Government position was to remain". But members of said Government were indeed campaigning for leave as were a significant minority of the political party leading the country.

Furthermore, the Government were under no obligation to plan for either outcome because the question was "leave or remain". Not "here is what leave means". It was always understood that leave would be shaped post result, not pre. The farcical idea you have that pre-vote they should have hammered out "leave" is ludicrous. After all, the EU refused to even discuss it until post Article 50 trigger - and that was after the result of the referendum. As we have seen, promises and wishes are meaningless without actually being able to negotiate it.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -triggered

So, again, why on earth you think they could "plan" anything is beyond comprehension - unless your idea of plan is to simply be a timeline of what to do if it were triggered. The prime supporter of remain quit his post so the Government could elect someone to do that who'd see it through. As said, they elected a remainer instead of a leaver. But basically - trigger article 50 (can't do anything otherwise), negotiate. You can't do much one sided decision making.

A referendum (plural: referendums or less commonly referenda) is a direct vote in which an entire electorate is invited to vote on a particular proposal. This may result in the adoption of a new law. In some countries, it is synonymous with a plebiscite or a vote on a ballot question.

So yes, they COULD have put a leaver in place if the Tory party chose to do so. They didn't. Instead they torpedoed the negotiations of the very person they put in place to organise leave. Understand my point now? You obviously will disagree with it, but yes - the person engineering leave could have been one championing it if the Conservatives decided it to be so. At which point, leave planned by the leavers.

People knew Cameron would quit if he lost - hence why so many people voted leave to "get rid of Cameron". Again, a laughable decision and they'll reap their wishes. And Cameron nor the Government had any "planning for leave" to do.

[pjknibbs]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then, because my basic opinion is that the lack of any planning for what would happen in the event of a Leave vote is why we're so far up crap creek and looking for a paddle. Yes, we couldn't have planned for how the EU would react to our negotiations, but we didn't even plan when we were going to trigger Article 50, and we certainly could have had discussions with the EU before we did that--but no, Article 50 got triggered before we had any real idea what was happening, giving us a hard two year limit we simply weren't ready for.

[Chips]

Fair enough, I came back to edit that as I was thinking "hang on, that probably reads really aggressively" as I rushed out the house instead of reading/editing it a few times. Still will always disagree with the plan part - the whole point of stepping down was "I cannot do what you want, I'm not the right person to do what you want"

Discuss what with the EU before triggering Article 50? They refused to talk about anything until it was triggered. The reason? "Why waste our time talking about your leaving unless you take the action which shows it". Which is my thought of no point planning what to do if leave won. They weren't supporting leave, so no point planning the oppositions choice. Decision to trigger article 50 was taken by the new leader. Wasn't much they could discuss until it was triggered.

Were, post Article 50 triggered, they awful at actually starting doing anything? Yes. Could they have planned that before triggering... sketch a timeline of what needs doing? yes - the time between outcome, new leader, article 50 triggering. Is that the planning you mean? Fair enough - still wouldn't agree it should have been drawn up pre referendum mind.

[Ronald Sandoval]

but we didn't even plan when we were going to trigger Article 50, and we certainly could have had discussions with the EU before we did that--but no, Article 50 got triggered before we had any real idea what was happening, giving us a hard two year limit we simply weren't ready for.

I believe the EU refused to discuss brexit until after Article 50

[Golden_Gonads]

but we didn't even plan when we were going to trigger Article 50, and we certainly could have had discussions with the EU before we did that--but no, Article 50 got triggered before we had any real idea what was happening, giving us a hard two year limit we simply weren't ready for.

I believe the EU refused to discuss brexit until after Article 50

That's what they said at the time, yeah. If I remember rightly, there's a post or two in this thread about it. As for it being a hard limit, we must have different definitions of hard, as that limit was hit back in March.

[CBJ]

Well, if we weren't screwed before, we are now.

[pjknibbs]

Well, if we weren't screwed before, we are now.

No-deal Brexit October 31st, by the looks--unless Boris calls a snap election, which he might be stupid enough to do.

[Alan Phipps]

As if the Conservative government leave/remain and hard/soft splits weren't already paralysing and bad enough, now we'll have the 'I can/cannot work for/with Boris' split as well.