Ranty McRant Thread 2

[CBJ]

While I agree entirely with your rant about both the "journalism" and the topic it is covering in this instance, I'm not sure that you can lay the blame with one particular part of the political spectrum. Those on the right are just as guilty as those on the left of insisting on exercising their personal freedom to do what they want, and then demanding that nobody criticise them when their bad decisions lead to bad outcomes.

The real issue is the increasing shift away from acknowledging that opinion can and does sway a person's interpretation of facts, and trying to minimise the effect of that, towards valuing and promoting opinion even when it contradicts the facts. While journalism is obviously complicit in this, social media is probably a bigger contributor because it allows anyone, however poor their grasp of the facts, to spout an opinion and gain a worldwide audience, where previously they would have been limited to the small group of people willing to listen to them holding forth in the local pub.

And that's not even touching on the issue of people deliberately using both traditional and social media to disseminate misinformation and contradictory messages. The use of misinformation is a long-standing tradition, but the use of a constant stream of contradictory messages to drown out any intelligent debate is a newer phenomenon.

[BugMeister]

How many more secrets are they going to find in ancient Egypt..?
I'm getting bored with all these so-called unexplained mysteries.. and the mumbo-jumbo that accompanies the reports..

- it's becoming an industry all of its own - conspiracy theories all over the place....

[Chips]

Conspiracy theories are only conspiracy until proven true. For example, once they find the last resting place of the Almighty King of the Potato People - I will take Mr Flibble, grab the Masher of Righteousness, and photosynthesise the Ki energy allowing me to unveil the evil great Leader of the Orange Lizard People - freeing the world from tyranny.

Or we wait until the term is up for the twit in too much fake tan.

Which is better?

[Hank001]

Well when "Conspiracy Theories" start impinging on and becoming an actual danger to those that the theories say are "keeping secrets" and "speading cover stories" then I believe (as do most of the scientific community) they have gone too far. Look no farther than what happened at the Solar Observatory at Sunspot NM to see that adherents to the wildest theories are also more apt to become dangerous. This has really came to a head with every wild theory imaginable having a YouTube channel, websight and Facebook page. A large and vociferous group even raving the moon, sun and stars are HOLOGRAMS. Try and adhere to science when forums are continually packed with "Flat Earthers" of various sorts, but seem to travel in packs.

[BugMeister]

maybe Google/Bing etc. should have a "no bull" filter..

..on second thoughts, wait a minute - half the internet would shut down..

[Hank001]

BugMeister speculates:

..on second thoughts, wait a minute - half the internet would shut down..

...kind of like fact checking you know who. It does nothing but confirm their delusions and paranoid fantasies and make them howl louder and attract even more like flies drawn to steaming piles of excrement. You can't seem to ban them as fast as new ones spring up.

Are we to the point where sites have to vet people before they allow them a logon? Past the sites that already require a trip past reCAPTCHA before login. Well Astronomy forums are already discussing options and NASA and JPL are already facing a morass and deciding how to exclude tinfoil hatted trolls intent on calling them perpetuators of cover stories and disinformation.

Oh brave new world with such people in it...?

[BugMeister]

- maybe they should offer a prize for the most idiotic theory..
- but that would probably just encourage them to reach even higher levels of claptrap..

[Hank001]

BugMeister:

- maybe they should offer a prize for the most idiotic theory..
- but that would probably just encourage them to reach even higher levels of claptrap..

Too late. It's in full glory on YouTube channels getting sponsorship, Patrion donations, likes, and the @$!# wilder the content the better. Facebook pages, Twitter pages, any one of Q Anons millions of followers...

Somewhere in there is a thousand thesises on the increase in cognitive dissonance, decline in mental health and increasing belief that truth is a relative concept.

Then again it might just be sites like YouTube, etc looking at all the $$$$ the crazies are bringing in and not wanting to kill the geese laying golden eggs.

[Chips]

- maybe they should offer a prize for the most idiotic theory..
- but that would probably just encourage them to reach even higher levels of claptrap..

Think it's more to do with education and tackling conspiracies with logic and accuracy. Some will believe regardless (flat earth despite epic levels of evidence to the contrary), but minorities are unlikely to affect the majority.
Makes the world a more colourful place Now, I'm off on my latest adventure of deity searching.

[Hank001]

Chips announced:

Now, I'm off on my latest adventure of deity searching.

Good luck! Say Hi for me if you see Him, Her, Whomever.

[BugMeister]

most of this is pure bilge..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2pWv-D84W0

- a colossal waste of money..
- a total load of garbage, based on unproven theories for no purpose at all..

[Hank001]

BugMeister says:

- a total load of garbage, based on unproven theories for no purpose at all..

Looks like he's fishing for $uckers. Purpose enough I suppose.

[BugMeister]

- replies might do..
- he said, fearlessly..

[Hank001]

BugMeister says fearlessly:

- replies might do..
- he said, fearlessly..

Sure, go ahead. The effort will only prove to show how many trolls he's put on the payroll.

[Morkonan]

most of this is pure bilge..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2pWv-D84W0

- a colossal waste of money..
- a total load of garbage, based on unproven theories for no purpose at all..

I didn't hear any "theories." It was more like:

[ external image ]

I especially liked the "Big Array" pic of radio dishes emitting LAZORS! That was cool. If he could explain how they do that, we could all sign up for a "satellite TV" subscription, get our satellite dishes, then convert them to LAZOR!! dishes and send giant spaceships to the stars.

I think what he's talking about is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron% ... nihilation (WTF is that hash garbage in the link? Forum can't parse a hyphen?)

Somewhere in there he's talking about generating propulsion using a gold target bombarded by positrons generated by a radiation source, all of which is possible, but then he just paints the picture that "the shoot out teh back and make teh thing go" or something like that. A+?=Profit.

We'll see what his proof-of-concept cube-sat can do, if they ever manage to make it work.

[BugMeister]

yet more garbage from those idiotic "scientists":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... apocalypse

- utter bilge..

[Hank001]

BugMeister notes:

- utter bilge..

Wish that was true, but the apiaries (beekeepers) around here had most of their hives killed by that bee parasite that's still going around. So pollination is a big concern here in the US heartland with all the bee now hybridized with the less productive African strains. That having been said, ROBOTIC @$!# BEES? Give me a #!$@ break!

[Morkonan]

A not-really-a-rant, rant:

So, I spoke to a stranger the other day. They had a family member who had a particularly rare and aggressive form of cancer that had metastasized. It's one of those "not good" situations. It's not easy to stand there and commiserate with someone in their grief, trying to keep their spirits up, but also trying to prepare them for the likely outcome.

But, that's not what this is all about, it just sets the stage...

We started talking about treatments and rumored cures and folk-tales of "this one guy, one time, did the thing and it cured him" sort of stuff. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal... How do you explain that to someone who is, in reality, likely going to watch someone die? Well, it's not easy or pleasant, but you just do it, right? And then, it starts:

"But, teh gubbermint know that this treatment cures cancer, but they won't approve it, because then they would stop making money off of it and the drug companies wouldn't be able to sell their drugs and teh gubbermint does this all the time like when they bought the patents up for the hundred-miles-to-one-gallon-of-gas engine and this treatment works but they want to keep it secret... because I read it all on teh interwebz..."

This goes beyond "grief." I get it - People get put in an impossible situation and start looking for unconventional avenues in order to escape. Anyone would do that if pressed hard enough. There are scratch marks on the walls in prisons and other places where people have tried to escape by clawing at bricks with their fingernails... People will go to extreme lengths in order to escape the unbearable.

Everyone gets desperate. It happens. But, the rabbit-hole this person started down goes a bit further than what the moment would reasonably be expected to elicit from someone. So... How in the @$%@$ do you respond to that? Disagreement in regard to conspiracy theories is not very well received by fervent believers and this person had been driven far past that.

Well, you simply just bite your friggin' tongue and refuse to address conspiracies, right? You change the subject, redirect the conversation to something more productive, attempt to offer what comfort you can using realistic, but compassionate, emphasis on what is happening "right now."

But, in the back of your mind, you have to realize you're dealing with someone who fervently believes that the government wants to make money from dying people and that there are human beings out there willing to subject three-hundred million people to a horrific death just because a pharma company wants to keep selling a particular drug instead of becoming "The Hero That Cured Cancer."

I can't fault this grieving person. It's not my place. But, it reminds me of other people who are, perhaps, not under so much personal stress and who leap at such ideas whenever they're presented to them. What is their excuse?

[Hank001]

@ Morkonan:

Believe me, I've pulled a few back from the edge of that particular rabbit hole. It's kind of a new phenomenon where "alternative facts" are given as much credence as science. That and there are cancers that just aren't going to get knocked back, no matter what and (You'll get this reference) Brahman milk and a few magnets won't help and might not hurt (see: Placebo Effect). All I know is this: Outside of mythologies nobody lives forever and every day is a roll of the dice.

But let me make this clear: QUACKS should be hung from a tall tree by their own intestines. I'll volunteer to do the hoisting.

[Alan Phipps]

I think the saddest thing of all is when the people who most need expert help believe that the trained people trying to help them (medical consultants and staff, counselling staff, etc) are all part of, or at least in on, the conspiracy.