Ranty McRant Thread 2

[BugMeister]

yet more garbage from those idiotic "scientists":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... apocalypse

- utter bilge..

[Hank001]

BugMeister notes:

- utter bilge..

Wish that was true, but the apiaries (beekeepers) around here had most of their hives killed by that bee parasite that's still going around. So pollination is a big concern here in the US heartland with all the bee now hybridized with the less productive African strains. That having been said, ROBOTIC @$!# BEES? Give me a #!$@ break!

[Morkonan]

A not-really-a-rant, rant:

So, I spoke to a stranger the other day. They had a family member who had a particularly rare and aggressive form of cancer that had metastasized. It's one of those "not good" situations. It's not easy to stand there and commiserate with someone in their grief, trying to keep their spirits up, but also trying to prepare them for the likely outcome.

But, that's not what this is all about, it just sets the stage...

We started talking about treatments and rumored cures and folk-tales of "this one guy, one time, did the thing and it cured him" sort of stuff. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal... How do you explain that to someone who is, in reality, likely going to watch someone die? Well, it's not easy or pleasant, but you just do it, right? And then, it starts:

"But, teh gubbermint know that this treatment cures cancer, but they won't approve it, because then they would stop making money off of it and the drug companies wouldn't be able to sell their drugs and teh gubbermint does this all the time like when they bought the patents up for the hundred-miles-to-one-gallon-of-gas engine and this treatment works but they want to keep it secret... because I read it all on teh interwebz..."

This goes beyond "grief." I get it - People get put in an impossible situation and start looking for unconventional avenues in order to escape. Anyone would do that if pressed hard enough. There are scratch marks on the walls in prisons and other places where people have tried to escape by clawing at bricks with their fingernails... People will go to extreme lengths in order to escape the unbearable.

Everyone gets desperate. It happens. But, the rabbit-hole this person started down goes a bit further than what the moment would reasonably be expected to elicit from someone. So... How in the @$%@$ do you respond to that? Disagreement in regard to conspiracy theories is not very well received by fervent believers and this person had been driven far past that.

Well, you simply just bite your friggin' tongue and refuse to address conspiracies, right? You change the subject, redirect the conversation to something more productive, attempt to offer what comfort you can using realistic, but compassionate, emphasis on what is happening "right now."

But, in the back of your mind, you have to realize you're dealing with someone who fervently believes that the government wants to make money from dying people and that there are human beings out there willing to subject three-hundred million people to a horrific death just because a pharma company wants to keep selling a particular drug instead of becoming "The Hero That Cured Cancer."

I can't fault this grieving person. It's not my place. But, it reminds me of other people who are, perhaps, not under so much personal stress and who leap at such ideas whenever they're presented to them. What is their excuse?

[Hank001]

@ Morkonan:

Believe me, I've pulled a few back from the edge of that particular rabbit hole. It's kind of a new phenomenon where "alternative facts" are given as much credence as science. That and there are cancers that just aren't going to get knocked back, no matter what and (You'll get this reference) Brahman milk and a few magnets won't help and might not hurt (see: Placebo Effect). All I know is this: Outside of mythologies nobody lives forever and every day is a roll of the dice.

But let me make this clear: QUACKS should be hung from a tall tree by their own intestines. I'll volunteer to do the hoisting.

[Alan Phipps]

I think the saddest thing of all is when the people who most need expert help believe that the trained people trying to help them (medical consultants and staff, counselling staff, etc) are all part of, or at least in on, the conspiracy.

[Hank001]

Alan Phipps notes:

I think the saddest thing of all is when the people who most need expert help believe that the trained people trying to help them (medical consultants and staff, counselling staff, etc) are all part of, or at least in on, the conspiracy.

When the "Rabbit Hole" turns into the abyss. The kicker is that this disconnect usually starts when the oncologists and/or support staff have bedside manners of drones at best and prison guards at worst. (In that read V.A. system)
A fate I was thankfully able to avoid I have "What the hell is it?" And they palmed me off to the civilian medical community that figured it out. So as I just posted elsewhere applies here as well:

Harlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

[Morkonan]

I think the saddest thing of all is when the people who most need expert help believe that the trained people trying to help them (medical consultants and staff, counselling staff, etc) are all part of, or at least in on, the conspiracy.

^--- This.

Remember Steve Jobs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs#Health_issues

The man chose "alternative medicine" instead of "real medicine." IMO, some of these outlets for "herbal remedies" and "alternative medicine" need to be brought up on manslaughter charges. At the very least, there should be "Anti-Bull$@% Laws" and these people need to be brought up on violations of those laws...

Here's the overall, underlying, issue that caused my post: This sort of thing causes me real pain. I find it difficult to see someone suffering unnecessarily. (Not that there is a necessary bit of suffering people should go through, but whatever...) So, this stranger is and will be suffering because they believe there is a conspiracy against them, those they love, or a group that they are a member of. ie: Those associated with the targets of cancer. The stranger will be angry at people who are probably trying to do their best in what is a very grave situation. They will feel additional emotional pain because of this. It's not that I want to "fix them" so that they share my opinion. It's that I want to alleviate their suffering and I am powerless to do so in the face of this particular set of mistaken assumptions fueled by garbage info and morally bankrupt commercial opportunism on "teh internetz."

It really gets to me. No kidding. I experience crap like that and take a nosedive, moving into full catastrophic mode with visions of humanity being doomed because Bubba thinks he can strap some JATOs to his Chevy and establish a world record...

So, yeah - This one incident, which may re-occur, bothered me. An emotionally distraught person crying and reaching out for consolation with a stranger because someone on "teh internetz" has told them that "teh gubbermint" wants their loved one to die. :/ One could actually feel the pain-fueled anger and hatred emanating from this person. Well, I suppose if one believed it's possible to "feel" that, I suppose. But, in any event, it was a wall of outrage I was confronted with. Thankfully, not aimed at me.

And, yes, they probably voted for Trump. I don't know that they did, but I think it's very likely. That doesn't matter to me, here, though. I don't give a crap about their political or any other beliefs, just the fact that someone out there is either ignorant enough, selfish enough, or morally bankrupt enough to engage in feeding innocently-ignorant people a boatload of B.S. that ends up causing them real pain.

We're not going to make it. We've made our tools too powerful and don't have any parallel development in our cognitive or social reasoning skills to counteract the abuse and misuse of these tools. If we don't end up starving ourselves back into the Stone Age via Climate Change, we'll end up tearing ourselves apart. I suppose alien civilizations end up more often collapsing due to existential risks caused by stupidity and failed cultural constructs than actually making it to the stars...

(See? There it goes again, catastrophic mentality. It's enough to drive one to drink. Thankfully, I've never been that sort of person. Uh... but does it work, though? /ponder )

[Hank001]

@ Morkonan:

A. Chevy with JATO. THAT made my day!

Though I'm not really surprised knowing just what kind of stuff you can pick up at USAF salvage auctions.

As for medicine right there it is. There's some truth in laughter being the best medicine. So thank's Doc.

[Morkonan]

@ Morkonan:

A. Chevy with JATO. THAT made my day!

Though I'm not really surprised knowing just what kind of stuff you can pick up at USAF salvage auctions. ..

Though, I have to sadly say that the story, while certainly believable, isn't necessarily true - There's no evidence for it having occurred. That being said, it is still a sort of Honorary Darwin Award winner, being the most popular referenced. I can see it happening. I can certainly see it happening.

As far as what gets auctioned off... Yeah, I know. I used to buy pallets of stuff, regularly, and have seen some stuffs.

I'm serious, though - I don't know if we're smart enough to survive ourselves. If it wasn't for our fecundity and ability to simply "survive," I'd say we're certainly on the way to putting ourselves on the "Also Was" list. As it is, we'll probably end up on some alien race's "See, kids? This is what happens when your species does ____" list.

There's a near Cat 5 hurricane hitting Florida. While it changed, over night, there are still people who had a means to get out who decided to wait it out and have Hurricane Parties. They'll be lauded for their bravery and those who don't make it will be mourned... How many of the survivors will be pointed out by the more rational members of the species as being stupid, but lucky?

That's us - "Stupid, but lucky." If we make it to the stars, we should paint that on the hulls of all our ships. Starship bumper stickers!

[Observe]

Remember Steve Jobs? The man chose "alternative medicine" instead of "real medicine."

On the other hand, his tendency toward 'alternative' is part of the reason any of us have even heard of him. You can't expect mainstream 'white bread and mayonnaise' to be much more than 'me too' when it comes to real innovation. He made personal end-of-life health decisions that were precisely in-line with what made him great. He died. We all die.

[Morkonan]

Remember Steve Jobs? The man chose "alternative medicine" instead of "real medicine."

On the other hand, his tendency toward 'alternative' is part of the reason any of us have even heard of him. You can't expect mainstream 'white bread and mayonnaise' to be much more than 'me too' when it comes to real innovation. He made personal end-of-life health decisions that were precisely in-line with what made him great. He died. We all die.

He wasn't a god. He made a ton of really stupid decisions and this one was his last one... It's possible that he could have lived had he not made the decision to go literally all-in with "alternative medicine." We all die, but that's no reason to see what rat-poison and "Cheerios" tastes like. And, it's no reason to try to treat the only pancreatic cancer that has a decent successful recovery rate, with real medicine, by staring at rocks and burning incense while thinking happy thoughts.

"Alternative Medicine" is not really alternative medicine.

[pjknibbs]

You can't expect mainstream 'white bread and mayonnaise' to be much more than 'me too' when it comes to real innovation.

Steve Jobs wasn't an innovator, he just knew people who were--like Steve Wozniak, for example. Jobs was just a really, really good salesman with a sense of business ethics that made Bill Gates look like a saint in comparison.

[Morkonan]

You can't expect mainstream 'white bread and mayonnaise' to be much more than 'me too' when it comes to real innovation.

Steve Jobs wasn't an innovator, he just knew people who were--like Steve Wozniak, for example. Jobs was just a really, really good salesman with a sense of business ethics that made Bill Gates look like a saint in comparison.

He was "driven." A powerful personality, to be sure. One can accomplish heroic feats and make miracles happen with a will that's strong enough. Well, until you run into immutable reality you're not willing to accept. Then, things get a bit tricky...

"I wanna be a bajillionaire!" <--- Say a lot of people.
"I'm going to work my butt off and sacrifice everything in order to achieve this goal." <--- Say few people.

...

....

I just wanted to note that I wasn't trying to be harsh. It's just that I have a major ethical and moral issue with people who take advantage of the ignorance of others. When it comes down to "health," the price that innocent people have to pay can not be accepted. Those who prey on the dying... There aren't any words to adequately describe those people.

Miracles might happen and I don't have an issue with that. It's the people trying to sell them and innocent people being convinced to put all their hope in them while being told to turn their back on more sure methods that I have an issue with.

[Observe]

It's just that I have a major ethical and moral issue with people who take advantage of the ignorance of others. When it comes down to "health," the price that innocent people have to pay can not be accepted. Those who prey on the dying... There aren't any words to adequately describe those people.

Not too many years ago, I had a physician friend who had cancer. He refused chemo. This is not uncommon for doctors. Some treatments have a good success rate, others don't. No point paying for respirators, feeding tubes and medical chemicals when the prospect for recovery is poor. Most doctors won't tell you to refuse treatment - even when they know there is little to no chance of success. How ethical is that?

So, when you talk about people taking advantage of the ignorance of others, or those who prey on the dying, remember that sometimes you are describing the medical establishment. You are right about there being no adequate words to describe such people/systems.

Yes, I realize Steve Jobs had a form of cancer for which the treatment outcome has a good success rate - but it is not certain. We don't know for sure if he would have lived longer had he done things differently. It comes down to personal choices and the right to make them.

[Morkonan]

Not too many years ago, I had a physician friend who had cancer. He refused chemo. This is not uncommon for doctors. Some treatments have a good success rate, others don't. No point paying for respirators, feeding tubes and medical chemicals when the prospect for recovery is poor. Most doctors won't tell you to refuse treatment - even when they know there is little to no chance of success. How ethical is that?

When someone is dying, it's better to opt in favor of treatment rather than not. The thing is, how many "good years" do you want? Cancer treatment isn't usually called a "cure." Can people be cured? Sometimes, though surgery is usually the option there. But, most of the time, success is measured on a scale of five years - Can you live five more years if you undergo treatment? Maybe. Maybe not. Probably. No. /shrug

Physicians are always their own worst patients. But, many of them have had to see too many "worst case" scenarios to want to put themselves and their families through that.

So, when you talk about people taking advantage of the ignorance of others, or those who prey on the dying, remember that sometimes you are describing the medical establishment. You are right about there being no adequate words to describe such people/systems.

No, I wasn't describing the "medical establishment." If there are such unsavory physicians and workers out there, they would be also be part of the problem. But, that's not the usual case.

Yes, I realize Steve Jobs had a form of cancer for which the treatment outcome has a good success rate - but it is not certain. We don't know for sure if he would have lived longer had he done things differently. It comes down to personal choices and the right to make them.

I agree - It was his choice.

But, his choice was treatment for his illness with the desired goal to be cured. As long as that remains true, his decision to use alternative medicine in order to accomplish that goal was a dumb thing to do. I fully support a person's right to choose, but retain my right to call out the stupid choices so others might be less inclined to make them.

I went to a chiropractor, once. I had "thrown my back out" and was in a lot of pain. I had to wait to see a physician, so my wife at the time decided I should go see a chiropractor she knew. OK, fair enough, I had a friend who was in a car accident when she was a child and had been going to one for decades, so why not try it? As the chiropractor was "adjusting" me, we got into the "philosophy" of it all. I saw the "charts" on the wall with all this "energy stuff" and thought it fairly quaint, until he began explaining things to me. In "medical school" (Chiropractic Medicine School) he said one of the students had appendicitis. Well, it ruptured. We all know how bad that is, right? That's a slew of nasty stuff invading the abdominal cavity and threatening real death due to a runaway infection. Well, he then told me that they cured the student's appendicitis using chiropractic medicine involving realigning the student's healing energies to fight off the blob of infected tissues and heal the ruptured appendix, all without picking up one knife or prescribing one pill! AMAZING! IIRC, there was some foot manipulation, too, maybe acupressure/acupuncture?

How many times did I go back to that chiropractor? Just guess.

I am NOT, by the way, belittling someone's "belief system." (I am a religious person, myself.) It's not about religious beliefs or miracles or even energy, chackras/whatever. Those are personal beliefs. But, when we have a horde of evidence on hand that has testable, credible, repeatable results and has been so effective as to change the face of the world and enable human populations to actually "retire to a small condo at the beach" when they get old instead of "dying because they can't run as fast as that lion" then I have to say there is certainly a much smarter option than going to get one's "back adjusted" in order to cure themselves of a ruptured appendix.

It's all sensitive stuff, to be sure. That's why I apologized. No matter what I've written, there's only one underlying motivation - People being led to a choice that is not the best choice for them, no matter if it's their right to make the wrong choice. Those leading them down that path, who know better or should know better, are the people that really upset me. Job should be pitied, really, as a victim.

[pjknibbs]

But, his choice was treatment for his illness with the desired goal to be cured. As long as that remains true, his decision to use alternative medicine in order to accomplish that goal was a dumb thing to do. I fully support a person's right to choose, but retain my right to call out the stupid choices so others might be less inclined to make them.

Dara O'Briain said it best: "I'm sorry, 'herbal medicine', "Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!" Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and some potpourri, so knock yourselves out."

[red assassin]

Man, we need to do something about cards as a means of secure payment. At the beginning of August, while abroad no less, I attempted to pay for something with my main credit card, only for the card to be stopped. Paid with an alternate card and then spoke to my bank, and they let me know the card had been stopped because the details had likely been compromised. (Pretty sure the guilty party in that case was Ticketmaster, though it might also have been British Airways.) Okay, fair enough.

Fast forward to today, two months later: attempting to buy some parts for my PC, my card was stopped. Phone the bank and they inform me that the transaction had flagged as suspicious because the merchant responded slowly [1]... and that their intelligence team had indicated the card had probably been compromised, and so they weren't able to turn it back on and need to send me a new one.

Two months!


[1] Apparently that's an actual thing - I retried the transaction with a different card and that one got stopped too, though at least that one I could unstop using the app! Finally got a transaction through using PayPal.

[BugMeister]

..as we hurtle down the Brexit road towards becoming a third-world economy..
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -taxpayers

- see, even the IMF says so..
- EVEN the IMF, ffs..

- we knew this on day one..

[Morkonan]

...Pretty sure the guilty party in that case was ...

That's just it, though - There is no "guilty party." It's simply accepted as "I'm sorry you've been inconvenienced, but that is somebody eles's problem and how else can I help you today."

I pain an electric bill online, once. Their payment portal had been compromised because they're stupid, with insecure in-between-ware. Who's fault was it that my card information was compromised? Nobody's. I've had similar situations multiple times.

User info is stolen. Millions of accounts. In some cases, hundreds of millions of people's information is compromised because some moron keeps critical security data in plain text files, naked. For any "real losses," other than the torture some people have to go through having their financial data compromised, insurance companies eat the refunds because eventually any increased costs are passed down to the end-user, anyway. Besides, everyone needs a write-off, right? Well, everyone making bajillions of monies a day needs some losses to show for it...

The more people you can sue for negligence and stupidity, the more attentive and smarter everyone tends to get. Funny how that works. Until there's an incentive for companies to police up their crap and "do it right," stuff like this is going to continue to happen. Sure, hackers try to stay one-step-ahead, but most issues involving compromised account information doesn't revolve around uber-hacker using superhuman 1337 haxxor skills. It's simple dumb crap like compromised sites, crappy middle-ware used by "budget" processing companies, phishing and emailed attachments opened on a networked computer naked to the 'net, etc.

Find someone to sue and watch them get smart, real quick... Unless teh gubbermint finally decides every encryption scheme must be able to give them immediate access, 'cause "terrorism." :/ What about our "terror" when our personal financial information or identities are compromised?

[red assassin]

In some cases, hundreds of millions of people's information is compromised because some moron keeps critical security data in plain text files, naked.

https://twitter.com/kennwhite/status/10 ... 33?lang=en

Unless teh gubbermint finally decides every encryption scheme must be able to give them immediate access, 'cause "terrorism." :/ What about our "terror" when our personal financial information or identities are compromised?

Yeah, we're doing well as a society here. If I want to plan a terror attack I can WhatsApp my buddies about it with impunity safe in the knowledge that it's all irretrievably end-to-end encrypted, but if I want to buy something I might as well call my bank and ask for a new card as soon as I've placed the transaction because nobody cares about securing it. Priorities, eh?