Syria

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Hank001
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Post by Hank001 » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 08:21

The "Social Club" option.

Trump calls Putin (Or vise-versa) on their prvate lines. Things are degenerating and they have to do some somerhing besides the usual posturing. The plan to depopulate the country's major cities isn't progressing fast enough and forcing Russia's allies to use measures that are getting too much attention. Russia cut covert supply of standard chem agents, Assad's troops start using easily obtainable substances like bulk clorine instead. Plus their Navies are not playing nice, but simply aren't getting the bigger picture. Trump and Putin work out some incident that will allow them both to look strong, save face and got back to business as usual. They both think there are bigger issues to worry about.
Last edited by Hank001 on Fri, 13. Apr 18, 09:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by pjknibbs » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 08:44

We have to assume here that Trump's military advisors have taken him aside and told him that firing missiles at Syria probably isn't in America's interest right now, hence the sudden change in attitude.

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Post by Hank001 » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 09:08

From what I've been getting from friends in D.C. Trump doesn't "get advice". He tells people what he's going to do or what they are going to do, if they are lucky. Usually they have absolutely no clue until it's either an order on their desk, tweeted to the entire world, or after the general officers drag back from an "emergency meeting" with their asses handed to them if they dare obect to anything. One commented that Trump has a low opinion of the Pentigon because they "Dont know how the game is played." Meaning they want to play by the rulebook. The new rule is, what Trump says goes. So the Joint Chiefs aren't seeing that much of the inside of the White House unless Trump needs a photo op with them.
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Post by muppetts » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 11:23

clakclak wrote:
muppetts wrote:Not sure it really matters at this point, everyone deny, everyone point fingers, UN issues STRONG worded statement, life goes on. This will drag on until the complete genocide of the non assad people is complete and then that will be that.
The UN can hardly do anything as long as Russia and the US are members of the security council. They more or less control the UN and stop anything they do not like from coming to pass. Seing how the US was simply able to block a third party investigation into the recent deaths that that occured during the clashes between Israel and Palestine, the system (of having a supreme security council) seems to be massivly flawed.
No argument here, just pointing out the futility of it all.
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 11:26

felter wrote:I don't think it was Asad that did it, I think it is Russia/Putin that did it....
I want to know, without a doubt, who did it.

It seems like an insanely stupid thing for Assad or Putin to authorize, just when Trump announces he's going to start pulling out of Syria. I am not saying they didn't do it or that it was faked, I'm saying I want to know who did it and be sure about it, first.

France has said they have proof. OK, I want to see it.

Trump, in typical "can't wipe his own @$$ without Tweeting about it" style, said he was going to launch missiles at something, somewhere, and called Russia out with "'Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and 'smart!' " Yeah, whatever. I'm sure Trump thought someone would be impressed, him saying stuff about "smart" an' all.

But, I've heard he's walking that threat back, at least today. That's just friggin great, too. Keeps 'em on their toes, I guess, except that's a bad place to keep potential enemies.

Will there be some sort of strike? Sure, it's likely. Where? Some big-friggin-thing that takes nice pictures, but probably doesn't do much against Assad that can't be fixed with a coat of paint and duct-tape.

The whole place is going to heck in a handbasket ever since Obama stalled while idling on it... "I know! Let's supply some rebels an' stuff!" WHAT A GREAT FOOKIN' IDEA! May as well just have shipped rifles to ISIS, direct, or opened up the prisons and given everyone Molatov cocktails or something.

Nobody gave two squirts about Libya except France. And, when France got pissed, they called in their markers. And, after? It's a fookin mess. Syria, on the other hand, won't be a fookin' mess no matter what happens. Why? Russia is there, that's why. They're there to "protect their interests." IMO, they're there to prop up Assad and then, once he is out of the picture, which is inevitable, they'll be the only stable force in Syria that is on "the inside." Win/win That was pretty much a foregone conclusion - Nobody Russia doesn't like is going to get any power in Syria as long as Russia has anything to say about it.

Heck, that may not be a bad thing as far as stability is concerned. It'll be easy to keep Syria stable once Assad is out of power and living in Dubai. It'll be easy because anyone who disagrees with the people in charge will wake up dead one day or have a family member disappear and that will be that... :/

There is no way out of this mess that ends well for the people in Syria.

The only possible way out is if it can be proven, without a doubt, that Assad directly ordered chemical attacks and has a continuing chemical weapons program. And, then he'll have to be tried for "war crimes" and convicted. Chances are, that won't happen, because if he ends up on his way to the Hague, he will eat polonium salad... There's no way he wouldn't say "But, Russia made me do it" in some attempt to get a lesser charge and, even if they didn't do anything of the sort, they'll not risk that sort of crapstorm.

All just my opinion 'cause I'm ticked off that this situation exists, now, that everyone saw coming and nobody did squat about it. There was one time, one time only, in all this mess when there was a chance at a diplomatic solution and, after Assad, backed by Russia, dug in his heels, that chance was over.

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Post by felter » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 22:48

Okay the UN has declared the cold war is back, not good.

Russia are now claiming that the UK is responsible for the gas attack or that it is a fake story that the UK created. Their evidence, this video one major issue with the video is that they get the date of the attack wrong, the video says it happened on Sunday April 8 when it was Saturday April 7 that it happened. So many are calling it fake for that. I don't speak Arabic or read Russian so I'm not sure what they are saying in the video. But seemingly they are saying that the victims were from a bombing of a multi-storey building and were suffering from smoke inhalation. Russia are also reporting that the attack never happened.

Meanwhile the Americans are saying they had obtained blood and urine samples from victims which had tested positive for chlorine and a nerve agent.

Britain are just fuming that they are being accused of it all from the Russians.

The French ambassador said Syria had gone "beyond the point of no return" and France would "shoulder its responsibility to end an intolerable threat to our collective security"

Make of it what you want but none of it is good and none of it makes any sense, as none of the parties will gain anything form it.
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Post by Gosnell » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 22:56

Another cold war.Well at least the news won't be boring.Im curious which side of the fence China will stand.I daresay Estonia Latvia ECT will be incredibly concerned.While I doubt all out war will occur ,I feel that the current English government is exceptionally weak.Sadly we don't have a leader like Churchill to step in.Corbynn is to left wing.
P.s if the nukes start to fly I'm royally biggered I work down the road from downing street.

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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 23:17

felter wrote:...The French ambassador said Syria had gone "beyond the point of no return" and France would "shoulder its responsibility to end an intolerable threat to our collective security"...
WTF does that mean?

!!

A previous statement by France on the use of chemical weapons: France will strike Syria chemical arms sites if used to kill: Macron

So, will France actually do this, now that they say they have "proof?"

As far as Russia blaming the UK, how can they blame the UK for a chemical attack that they first said never happened? Was this attack actually committed by Schrodinger's cat?

So much crap and threats flying, back and forth..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-JA1ffd5Ms

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Post by felter » Sat, 14. Apr 18, 00:27

Morkonan wrote:
felter wrote:...The French ambassador said Syria had gone "beyond the point of no return" and France would "shoulder its responsibility to end an intolerable threat to our collective security"...
WTF does that mean?
I have absolutely no idea, but taking a guess to me it sounds like they are going to go after Asad personally.
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Post by Antilogic » Sat, 14. Apr 18, 04:39

Very heavy missile assault from UK/US/FR tonight.

Bit of a baited breath moment.

Russia is unhappy, they have already released statements. Notable however that they made no effort to intercept any missiles fired.

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Post by Observe » Sat, 14. Apr 18, 04:42

Antilogic wrote:Notable however that they made no effort to intercept any missiles fired.
They were warned we were coming. Good that they decided not to tangle; because it isn't in their or our best interest in the long-run.

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Post by Antilogic » Sat, 14. Apr 18, 04:47

Observe wrote:
Antilogic wrote:Notable however that they made no effort to intercept any missiles fired.
They were warned we were coming. Good that they decided not to tangle; because it isn't in their or our best interest in the long-run.
The US claims there was no discussion with Russian forces on the actual attacks.

Though if you want warning, it's not as if Trump hasn't been mouthing on it on Twitter for days.

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Post by felter » Sat, 14. Apr 18, 05:03

Russia wrote:Russia has warned the US to expect the likelihood of some form of retaliation.

Its ambassador to the US, Anatoly Antonov, said in a statement "such actions will not be left without consequences".
So maybe they will release that pee video now.
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Post by RegisterMe » Sun, 15. Apr 18, 03:05

Russia made a reasonable amount of noise about "shooting down any missiles fired at Syria", and intimated that it might retaliate against any launch platforms.

Were any missiles shot down, and, as yet, has any retaliation taken place?
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Post by felter » Sun, 15. Apr 18, 05:07

Who knows, everyone is telling a different tale about it.

Myself what I would like to do is ask Trump how he now feels about being a killer, about him being personally responsible for the killing of other human beings. As right now he is being too full of himself and I don't think he knows what he has become. Most in power do realise that their actions and what they do and what that makes them into, something that normal humans do not want to be. I don't think Trump understands this to him it is all just a game.
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Post by pjknibbs » Sun, 15. Apr 18, 07:53

RegisterMe wrote: Were any missiles shot down, and, as yet, has any retaliation taken place?
Putin says 70-odd were shot down, Trump says none. Depends who you choose to believe, really...

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Post by Hank001 » Sun, 15. Apr 18, 11:47

I'd warned people that Trump was looking for war. It's almost gotten to the point of being formulaic. If the "Administration" has domestic issues it can't deal with, start a war. Trump certainly is playing it to hilt. Been there.... Done that... It's not fun. (George commands and we obey. Ower' the hills and far away...) :cry:
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Post by mrbadger » Sun, 15. Apr 18, 13:38

Well you want a an incompetant leader, and you got one. You're going to let him start wars as a distraction method too. Then pretend that's not really why he's doing it.

Frankly if the citizens of the 'greatest nation in the world' can't deal with a home made despot then you deserve everything you get.
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Post by Hank001 » Sun, 15. Apr 18, 17:46

Well put mrbadger. However after watching the Sunday morning Talkin Head programs I have the opinion from our Ambassador to the UN that it was the UK and France that lit Trump off. I have a picture in mind :idea:

From the result and it not getting that close to the Russians I'd say its back to Trump looking like he's acting tough and Putin doing the same and if they were in the same room all handshakes and drinks.
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Post by mrbadger » Sun, 15. Apr 18, 20:35

Hank001 wrote:Well put mrbadger. However after watching the Sunday morning Talkin Head programs I have the opinion from our Ambassador to the UN that it was the UK and France that lit Trump off. I have a picture in mind :idea:
I rather doubt that. The US is way more lit up on attacking Syria than the UK has been.

But now it's been done, sharing the blame is a good way to say 'hey, it wasn't our idea'.

But the UK didn't fire the missiles, did we. No-one forced the US to do it.

Look at a map, the UK is a pissy little Island. You want to say we pushed you into it?
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