Fallout 76...

[Antilogic]

I'm happy I skipped this one. I wish Bethesda would release patches like Egosoft does.

Let's not put Egosoft on any pedestals for playable release quality though. Both companies release games in completely unacceptable states.

[notaterran]

Rebirth was a mess, I agree, that's why I specifically referred to patches. Bethesda abandon their games with some rather awful bugs in them. I marvel at how much work modders have put into their games (Tale of Two Wastelands is a very good example).

[Antilogic]

Rebirth not an exception for Egosoft unfortantly. I'm not buying X4, one of the minor reasons is the awful launch state of their games.

But yeah, Bethesda are pretty poor as well. Wish they would just give Fallout over to Obsidian and be done.

[pjknibbs]

Let's not put Egosoft on any pedestals for playable release quality though. Both companies release games in completely unacceptable states.

I don't think anybody was putting Egosoft on a pedestal for launch day state of their games? What they're praising Egosoft for is actually patching their games to fix the launch problems, something Bethesda often doesn't do--see the aforementioned conversation about there being the same game-breaking bugs in Skyrim Special Edition as there was in its original release five years earlier!

Heck, even Rebirth was patched into a playable state--my personal problems with the game relate to its fundamental design, mind you, which no amount of patching can fix. Will buy X4 if the reviews are good and it sounds like my sort of game again.

[Morkonan]

I will be buying X4.

I won't be able to play it, yet, and I am aware that Egosoft may have their own rep for Day 1 releases.

But, I am also aware that Egosoft fixes their stuff.

Bethesda, on the other hand, is quite happy to keep slapping a new coat of paint on a dead horse and insist that it is a "patch."

[Antilogic]

Let's not put Egosoft on any pedestals for playable release quality though. Both companies release games in completely unacceptable states.

I don't think anybody was putting Egosoft on a pedestal for launch day state of their games? What they're praising Egosoft for is actually patching their games to fix the launch problems, something Bethesda often doesn't do--see the aforementioned conversation about there being the same game-breaking bugs in Skyrim Special Edition as there was in its original release five years earlier!

Heck, even Rebirth was patched into a playable state--my personal problems with the game relate to its fundamental design, mind you, which no amount of patching can fix. Will buy X4 if the reviews are good and it sounds like my sort of game again.

Point is really that I do find it frustrating that the gold standard we apparently have here is - 2 years after release your game is playable, well done.

Lots of developers have been a bit better about this recently though, thankfully.

[Rice]

I just bought Kenshi. It has some of the same vibe (ie a cross between M&B, X3 and Fallout / Wastelands / Conan survival with a health RPG wrapper and an unknown / explored world).

Cost a tenner. And it works. Bit rough around the edges but a hell of a lot more polished than Rebirth was on release (or 76 sounds like).

I think there's a thread in OT about knocking around somewhere {shudders at the thought of invoking necro gods}.

Ha haa haaa.... Kenshi had their own total unplayable bugs in their cycle of developement, just remembering the PathAI/ or Rendering overhaule back on the old map when they changed to the actual "world", the WorkAi Loops if storages were full and the peoples got stuck with full inventories ( without any workaround than more peoples for each dedicated task)

its in developement since atlast 2008
with around 2014-15 playable with just a few greater edges and since 2017/18 playing quite fluent with your mentioned rough edges. Similiar can be told about X:rebirth if we ignore the "full-release" as both launched in 2013 on steam, and both got inmotion of polishing in the same time on that matter.

But its a great game, thats not debateable, if i look up on my Playtime in Kenshi. But the same goes for X:rebirth in terms of entertaining me with his rough edges. ^^

[Mightysword]

Ha haa haaa.... Kenshi had their own total unplayable bugs in their cycle of developement, just remembering the PathAI/ or Rendering overhaule back on the old map when they changed to the actual "world", the WorkAi Loops if storages were full and the peoples got stuck with full inventories ( without any workaround than more peoples for each dedicated task)

The thing is Kenshi is an Early Access game, I think it became available on Steam as Alpha 0.3, you know what you signed up for. The game is about to hit 1.0 release any days now, if there is still bugs ... then you can compare. X-Rebirth was released as an official 1.0 release, and it took more than a year later for it to become frustrate free to play (for me at least).

[Morkonan]

The thing is Kenshi is an Early Access game, I think it became available on Steam as Alpha 0.3, you know what you signed up for. The game is about to hit 1.0 release any days now, if there is still bugs ... then you can compare. X-Rebirth was released as an official 1.0 release, and it took more than a year later for it to become frustrate free to play (for me at least).

That poses the question: Should Egosoft embrace the current "paid" Steam Alpha/Beta Model or not?

I'm sort of glad that they don't, since there's an air of mystery and expectation there that promotes a purchase. I assume they have plenty of testing help, so that may not be an issue. "Money" is always a concern, but they seem to be developing games, patches, etc, just fine and they still maintain the forums and all that stuff. (I was pleasantly surprised at the updated forum and the fact that they managed to save all the critical old stuff that is completely necessary to have archived for X-game players! YAY EGOSOFT!)

The Fallout 76 criticisms are all over the place. It's not too surprising, it's just somewhat surprising that Bethesda thought this "game" was deserving of some sort of special mention. They should have done it like Fallout Shelter and promoted it as an offering in an additional "experience" in their IP setting rather than... "a game."

PS- Anyone play Fallout Shelter? I've thought about it, but some of what I've heard means it's got those "time sinks" in it that means you're stuck doing nothing while a clock ticks down. I despise that...

[notaterran]

I've watched several videos of FO76 gameplay footage. In Tale of Two Wastelands (with optimized ENB patch -wrapper version- and ENB boost, New Vegas Stutter Remover and Anti-Crash) I get more fluid gameplay and generally higher minimum frame rates. I can't believe how bad the stuttering in FO76 can get. I get that it's an MP game, but how badly are those servers getting hammered?

[Mightysword]

That poses the question: Should Egosoft embrace the current "paid" Steam Alpha/Beta Model or not?

Eh, it's a double edge sword. In my observation the key to "Early Access release" is that the developers need to be well disciplined and have nerve of steel ... well, maybe not that dramatic but ... close. Basically, I mean they need to have good resistance to 'entitled' backers and focus in their vision, instead of viewing it as a popularity contest. The mindset should be:

- Hey, we have this idea for a great game, and if you have faith in our vision please show us your support.

And not:

- Hey, we'll do this together and in the end it will be a game that YOU want it to be.

I either had backed, backing, follow, or purchased full release of previously Early Access games in decent number, and it's the pattern I had noticed. Games follow the former pattern tend to see the light of the tunnel and end up being decent or great, games that follow the latter pattern tend to end up ... well, death. Sadly, there are far more developers go down the second pattern then the first, and I guess it's a PR thing. They want people to get on board so they throw out all these promisse to make their backers feel important like 'always listen to feedback, transparent and constant feedback" ...etc... and most of those things are eventually their downfall. I don't know if you visit the X4 forum recently and notice this hysteria about "MOAR INFORMATION". Some of that you can attribute to the excitement on the game coming out, but I think for the most part it's just part of that "24/7 news feed" culture we're living in. And when that thirst is not constantly sated ... it can get ugly. Now you look at what happen on the X4 board and then go to an Early Access board ... and it tends to be a lot worse. People haven't paid any thing for X4 and yet if they are still ... think about the entitlement backers allow themselves to have because they had 'paid' for it.

A good example is Folk Tale. In its hayday, it was the picture perfect of PRing: clear roadmap, weekly let's play session or video with the dev, monthly blog ...etc... you know ... the usual stuffs you see people ask of Egosoft about their unreleased game. It went even farther, the original plan for a campaign was scrapped and switch to a skirmish model due to "popular demand", the dev even take off resource to release modding tool ... for a game that is still in Alpha. And guess what ... all of that time and resources had to come from somewhere, eventually all of that mushy mushy talk turn into anxiety and hostility, I think the dev of Folk Tale suffered depression after things gone south.

I feel for them whenever I see Bernd or CBJ, or any other devs had to come out and defend themselves against the demand for more information, stating they can't afford to cut in development time to make these videos want to see ... they speak the truth. Don't think people understand that though.

I'm sort of glad that they don't, since there's an air of mystery and expectation there that promotes a purchase. I assume they have plenty of testing help, so that may not be an issue.

That makes sense from the player POV, and I'm kinda of the same. Most of the game I bought I don't really invest that much time following closely, not due to the lack of interest, but I think it's simply more healthy for me. For example I have a very strong interest in Bannerlord, but imagine being someone who try to follow its development for the last few years

From the developer's POV though, I think it's just a way to protect their vision and more importantly their sanity. I think the embarrassment of releasing a buggy game, or the stress of being on a tight rope financially are nothing compared to the harassment you can get from an Early Access tittle. Commit to Early Access release is like making a pact with Clavicus Vile, there is 1 out of 10 chance of you gonna struck gold, with the other 9 part of you gonna die ... in a very unpleasant way.

[Antilogic]

The thing is Kenshi is an Early Access game, I think it became available on Steam as Alpha 0.3, you know what you signed up for. The game is about to hit 1.0 release any days now, if there is still bugs ... then you can compare. X-Rebirth was released as an official 1.0 release, and it took more than a year later for it to become frustrate free to play (for me at least).

That poses the question: Should Egosoft embrace the current "paid" Steam Alpha/Beta Model or not?

I'm of the strong opinion that no major development houses or publishers should be using this model. Small development teams/indie only.

[Morkonan]

The thing is Kenshi is an Early Access game, I think it became available on Steam as Alpha 0.3, you know what you signed up for. The game is about to hit 1.0 release any days now, if there is still bugs ... then you can compare. X-Rebirth was released as an official 1.0 release, and it took more than a year later for it to become frustrate free to play (for me at least).

That poses the question: Should Egosoft embrace the current "paid" Steam Alpha/Beta Model or not?

I'm of the strong opinion that no major development houses or publishers should be using this model. Small development teams/indie only.

I think that's a good idea, as well.

Back in the day, before Steam, there were Betas, limited Betas, Limited Open Betas and Stress Tests and the like, with a very select few participating in long-term Beta or Alpha testing/feedback. That limited scope allowed development to be much more focused, I think. BUT, larger houses generally have their crap together and have a "plan" for what they want to be in the game. Smaller houses and indies largely have an "idea" that gets fleshed out in Beta. Egosoft may be a "smaller developer" but they generally already have a good handle on the game they want to produce. And, there sure as heck know, or should know, what the fans want for an X4 game.

This just in:

Bethesda to face class-action lawsuit for not fulfilling Fallout 76 refund requests

Shocking! o.0

Apparently, they promised refunds and then bailed on the promise. They told some people that because they bought or used some online, extra, download/content, they were no longer eligible for the 30 day refund offers or something like that. WTF?

This is juicy stuff, full of the internet drama that keeps netizens amused...

[Antilogic]

And, there sure as heck know, or should know, what the fans want for an X4 game.

Yeah, multiplayer

[felter]

Before the game was released there were rumours and more than a few people blatantly accusing Bethesda for removing the game from Steam, as they knew it was a pretty bad game and that they expected a lot of refund demands, and if it had been on steam then that is where the refund demands would have been made and it was outside of their control. A lot were making the statement as a joke but looking at the way things have turned out, I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

[Rapier]

This just in:

Bethesda to face class-action lawsuit for not fulfilling Fallout 76 refund requests

Shocking! o.0

I'm not shocked. It's a pretty common tactic for (US particularly) law firms to put out press releases saying they're investigating bringing this or that class-action suit, to see how much business it's likely to drum up if they were to actually do it. It's still several steps removed from Bethesda actually having to do anything about responding to a class-action.

[muppetts]

https://www.pcgamer.com/bethesdas-solut ... _pcgamerfb

Now i'm not a big fan of the special edition games but I can see some people get excited for some cool items but I do feel that this must come as false advertising as the bag in 'bag gate' was supposed to be canvas and other have noted that the word 'canvas' is now being removed from various online descriptions (why bother, horse bolted, barn burned down and they built a Starbucks by now).

[felter]

The bag issue is one thing that may just get them into some serious trouble, because as Muppets pointed out that's is false advertising which is illegal in most countries. Making changes now to how it was/is advertised after the fact will not help them in the least, neither will the current offer they are making to disappointed customers. I also don't buy the excuse we couldn't get the canvas material, and why replace it with nylon, they went from one material of quality to probably one of the cheapest and worst materials out there.

Update:

I went online and did a quick search, I had no problems finding many traders dealing in materials that had plenty of canvas material for sale. For example: WBL Fabrics that's UK based manufacturer and retailer there are tons of Chinese ones. Nylon is a different matter it comes in many different varieties and colours from the cheap to the very expensive and there is no shortage of it around. To me it sounds more like it was easier for them to buy the bags pre-made in bulk made from nylon, rather than spending time and resources to source and acquire a custom made bag out of canvas, which probably would have cost them a lot more to get them made. So no surprise as I do think they told a blatant lie about the bags, and a quick online search proves it.

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

From bad to worse...

"Bethesda leaked Fallout 76 customer names, addresses, contact details
[...]
The data protection breach happened last night, as customers filing support tickets with Bethesda began receiving support tickets from other people, too - which included usernames, names, addresses and other contact details.

Screenshots posted to Twitter showed customers had somehow been given access to details usually confined to Besthesda's own internal customer support system - which was full of complaints about those damn Fallout 76 bags that Bethesda is now going to replace. [...]"

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018 ... ct-details

[muppetts]

Someone just got fired