Fallout 76...

[esd]

An absolutely scathing review at The Metro. Some juicy bits:

Although it is bizarre how much Fallout 76 looks like some sort of abandoned mod, made by first year computer students that got bored after a couple of weeks and never bothered finishing it. The irony being that Bethesda has a very strong mod community, who regularly make their games look better than they ever did at launch. But being an online-only game we assume they’re not going to be able to help Fallout 76.

Lest anyone forgets, Bethesda own Doom creator id Software and Wolfenstein developer MachineGames, which feature some of the best first person combat this generation; so how they could possibly think this is acceptable is beyond us

Even great games – Dark Souls is the obvious example – have suffered from poor technical performance but Fallout 76 is not a great game. It’s very obviously something that was originally intended to be an extra mode for Fallout 4 but was never finished and has now been press-ganged into use as a separate title.

And the summary:

In Short: A disastrous failure whose technical shortcomings may one day be fixed but whose design failings, and obliviousness to its own potential, suggests a game that is irrevocably broken.

Pros: The game world is the largest and most interesting of any Fallout title. And if you’re very lucky, and get it at the right angle, it can even look fairly impressive.

Cons: Dull, repetitive gameplay with tedious quests, horrendous combat, and glitchy base construction. Lack of non-player characters ruins the story. One of the buggiest games ever released.

Score: 3/10

Ouch. That's gotta hurt.

[Morkonan]

...
Ouch. That's gotta hurt.

The trailer looks good, though... Then again, most of the appeal is likely due to the music, since little of the implied gameplay in the trailer appears to be evident in the game. And, if it is, the only question of whether or not it's worthy of experiencing is whether or not the Beach Boys soundtracks are included or not.

Someone stepped on Bethesda's enema bottle and this is the result. Yay?

This should probably be dubbed over some particularly hilarious bug-infested '76 vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWJXTdCVsKI (Sloop John B)

[Mightysword]

In principle I don't disagree with you--it was always possible to ignore the bugs, even if you got affected by them, because the games were generally good enough to do that.

Just like X2 and X3

The problem arises when they release a game which *isn't* very good (as the general opinion on FO76 seems to have it) which is also bug-ridden as heck.

Just like X:Rebirth

Like I said, if I can love and tolerate egosoft, it's not hard to do the same for Bethesasoft.


I think overall I feel the reactions in this thread is a bit overdramatic . I think if you put into a perspective of all other openworld games on the market, most don't have even half as big of a world and often ridden with far more technical problems that make Beth game looks like a hand polished Roll-royce, you'll appreciate their feast more. Sure, FO76 maybe a big flop, but I don't think it really reflects the long term value of the company. They hold two long running and successful franchises and for the most part, has been consistently deliver and improve with each iterations. Maybe this is double reinforced by prejudice against MMO platform (won't be a suprise given the forum we're on).

Conspiracy hat on *

Who know, this can be Beth playing 4D chest. People have been howling them for a Fallout MMO, so may be this is a token effort so they can tell those people "hey look, we tried ok, it flopped bad so we'll just stick to SP from now on".

[eladan]

Just like X:Rebirth

Like I said, if I can love and tolerate egosoft, it's not hard to do the same for Bethesasoft.

Let's see. Egosoft:
1. Releases buggy games.
2. Fixes the bugs
3. Updates the games with huge (sometimes unpaid) expansions.

Bethesda:
1. Releases buggy games.
2. Doesn't fix a large proportion of those bugs.
3. Sells overpriced DLC which often contain considerably less content than Egosoft's unpaid updates.

Yeah, total equivalence there.

I like Bethesda games in spite of the bugs. They do great worldbuilding (but terrible stories... hey! You missed that as a similarity to Egosoft! ) But they really are an absolutely rotten company who deserve all the criticism they get, and then some.

[Mightysword]

Yeah, total equivalence there.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholders. You're not necessary looking at the comparison as the same lens as I do on a few things.

- Like I said, the bugs in Beth's game were never really of a problem to me. When I first got Morrowind I had no internet, I played that game for years with no patches nor mods, yet I still sunk hundred of hours in them. The same-thing can be said about Oblivion and Skyrim. Again, it's nice that the communities fix those bugs the devs didn't, but they were never something that's more then pesky annoyance ... at least for me.

- Can the same-thing be said about the bugs in the X-series, if we go back to Reunion or Rebirth? I got both at releases, I remember Reunion was ok if you play for the first 20 hours or so, but after that issues started cropping up to a point that it can brick your game. I got Rebirth at launch too, and I decided that, after 15hours I needed to stop playing until it's fixed, because I don't want to get to a point that I would hate the game. Because if I reach that point, I won't be able to go back to it even after it get fixed. That was just how frustrated it was for me.

So, in the former case (Bethesa) fixing those bugs would be a nice gesture commitment but ultimately does not interfere with the wholesome enjoyment of the games, while in the later case (Egosoft) I would argue it's more of a necessity that they MUST do it to stay in business. I think many of us 'fans' here wouldn't around if the games were left in their initial state.

Let's see. Egosoft:
.....
3. Updates the games with huge (sometimes unpaid) expansions.

Bethesda:
.....
3. Sells overpriced DLC which often contain considerably less content than Egosoft's unpaid updates.

Well, I think you preach to the wrong person, I'm not one of those gamers who like to wail on and on about "proper expansion pack" and "overpriced DLC". For me, it's the right of the developers, and it's my choice to vote with my wallet, complaining is so ... overrated.

- I play TERA, a free MMO. If you want to talk about micro transaction, this is the platform to look at. Yet ... I spent less than $15 in the 6months time I play. Not because they don't have things to buy, I just decide I don't need them. And I don't let their existence bother me.
- I play The Sims - from EA, which is another notorious example of micro transaction for both the franchise and company. Yet ... I never touch the stuffs I consider overprice. Things that I feel justified the dollar, I buy. Things that I like but think overprice, I wait for a sale. Again, I don't feel entitled myself to all the contents that are available.
- I play Bethasoft games (mainly the Elderscroll line, not a big fan of Fallout) ... and I never buy those cosmetic DLC people complain about. But each and every expansion pack that release for those games are all well worth the price. Hell, I think they're underpriced ... and if you want to compare ... I actually hope Egosoft's expansion pack one day can actually match the quality of Bethasoft's expack.
- Now, I got Home Of Light for free as a day one adopter of Rebirth, but I never really get into it much. I bought Teladi Outpost and I think I visited the sectors came with it less than a dozen of time, half of the reason is because the ship AI can't seem to navigate the gate properly. Frankly I already know I wouldn't get into it much before I bought, so it was mainly a sight to support Egosoft, and the content itself really didn't change my opinion.

So ... irregardless of the asking price ... which one you think gave me more entertainment?

See, here's the thing, I think practical and not philosophical. I'm not rich, but neither I'm poor. I pay money to be entertained ... hell, I just sunk $1000+ this week into my other hobby (fish keeping), and I'm willing to pay a premium if the content is right. If Egosoft can release high quality ... hell scratch that, not even high quality, but content that I want to play, I'll pay for them. In general, I have more money to buy quality contents then there is quality contents that is worth buying, and video game is still one of the cheaper form of entertainment you can pay for (a fact I think people tend to lose perspective on).

To be perfectly honest to you? I think the X fanbase are a bit too old school and I wonder if that's a good things. Those companies that you hate? They are able to grow because they monetize their resource better. It may be the wrong impression, but I have a feeling Egosoft has always walk a tight-rope ... at least financially. Now, the things you praised them for certainly is good for you, the players, but ... is it necessary good for them, your supposed beloved developers? So if anything I would like to see more micro-transaction from Egosoft if that means they can be more stable and able to produce better contents, within reason of course.

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

I was aprehensive when it was announced, and non surprised in the least when the negative reviews and criticisms started coming in.
Bethesda, both publisher and developer, in my eyes, are a company completely void of innovation or technical competance. It's been a running gag in gaming for so long that Bethesda games are buggy messes. Oblivion, for all its greatness, is nearly lethal to play without community fixes. Fallout 3 and NV weren't much better. Skyrim was the creme of the crop but not without its own issues. Since then its been downhill. Nothing innovative in the least. They force in gameplay from recent successes that doesn't fit, and they aren't good at making. I felt Fallout should have expanded on its lore and systems rather than replace them with attempts at crappy base building or multiplayer. They're doing like Egosoft did with Rebirth, forcing systems in that they just don't know how to do well enough. Its a shocker that upper management even approved Fallout 76.

[pjknibbs]

Just read a fairly scathing review of the game at pcworld.com:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3323056 ... eview.html

Sounds like the basic design of the thing is broken--what kind of idiot makes a multiplayer game where only one person at a time can use a vendor or crafting table?

[Bishop149]

It’s very obviously something that was originally intended to be an extra mode for Fallout 4 but was never finished and has now been press-ganged into use as a separate title.

Yeah, that's certainly what it sounds like.

[Terre]

Just read a fairly scathing review of the game at pcworld.com:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3323056 ... eview.html

Sounds like the basic design of the thing is broken--what kind of idiot makes a multiplayer game where only one person at a time can use a vendor or crafting table?

Looking at the ad network of that link, I found this lot.

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[felter]

And then they wonder why we use things like adblock.

[Tycow]

Oh dear... more reviews in:

Gamespot give it 4/10 - https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/fallou ... 0-6417040/
IGN give it 5/10 - https://m.au.ign.com/articles/2018/11/2 ... -76-review
Giantbomb are refusing to review it - https://twitter.com/SkillUpYT/status/10 ... 5136191488

Seems certain outlets are giving hefty discounts on the game already. Quite glad I gave this a wide berth!

EDIT: Someone has made a brilliant mash up trailer for 76 with review comments - https://youtu.be/oyT00Dffqcw

[Mightysword]

Guess SP player can rejoice, usually when an MMO flop, the company don't try again.

Maybe the next Eldrescroll will come sooner as a result ...

[RegisterMe]

I just bought Kenshi. It has some of the same vibe (ie a cross between M&B, X3 and Fallout / Wastelands / Conan survival with a health RPG wrapper and an unknown / explored world).

Cost a tenner. And it works. Bit rough around the edges but a hell of a lot more polished than Rebirth was on release (or 76 sounds like).

I think there's a thread in OT about knocking around somewhere {shudders at the thought of invoking necro gods}.

[felter]

Reading some of the reviews shows just how bad some are at giving a review score. If you take the highest scoring reviews on Metacritic you get:

Review score = 76/100

Exploring is still the most interesting part in Fallout 76, but your adventure tour is limited by empty open-world, and outdated graphics performance. It is more like an MMO mod of Fallout 4, rather than a brand-new work.

Review score = 74/100

Bethesda claims that the Fallout 76 servers will last “forever” and, while it may not take that long to patch bugs and improve the experience, my foray with the launch version has left me with an abundance of bullet points that need attention. My biggest hope is that Bethesda will take our suggestions and criticisms as a call to action to tweak the faulty mechanics and build more features into a game that has a ton of potential.

Review score = 80/100

Fallout 76 takes a brave step forward in a risky multiplayer proposal, but due to its unclear intentions and a poor performance overall it will need time and effort to please its fans.

While it is only snippets of the full reviews, how can you say any of those things and give it a highish review score at the same time, they both don't add up together.

[notaterran]

I'm happy I skipped this one. I wish Bethesda would release patches like Egosoft does.

[Antilogic]

I'm happy I skipped this one. I wish Bethesda would release patches like Egosoft does.

Let's not put Egosoft on any pedestals for playable release quality though. Both companies release games in completely unacceptable states.

[notaterran]

Rebirth was a mess, I agree, that's why I specifically referred to patches. Bethesda abandon their games with some rather awful bugs in them. I marvel at how much work modders have put into their games (Tale of Two Wastelands is a very good example).

[Antilogic]

Rebirth not an exception for Egosoft unfortantly. I'm not buying X4, one of the minor reasons is the awful launch state of their games.

But yeah, Bethesda are pretty poor as well. Wish they would just give Fallout over to Obsidian and be done.

[pjknibbs]

Let's not put Egosoft on any pedestals for playable release quality though. Both companies release games in completely unacceptable states.

I don't think anybody was putting Egosoft on a pedestal for launch day state of their games? What they're praising Egosoft for is actually patching their games to fix the launch problems, something Bethesda often doesn't do--see the aforementioned conversation about there being the same game-breaking bugs in Skyrim Special Edition as there was in its original release five years earlier!

Heck, even Rebirth was patched into a playable state--my personal problems with the game relate to its fundamental design, mind you, which no amount of patching can fix. Will buy X4 if the reviews are good and it sounds like my sort of game again.

[Morkonan]

I will be buying X4.

I won't be able to play it, yet, and I am aware that Egosoft may have their own rep for Day 1 releases.

But, I am also aware that Egosoft fixes their stuff.

Bethesda, on the other hand, is quite happy to keep slapping a new coat of paint on a dead horse and insist that it is a "patch."