Too many Windows 10 versions!

[Morkonan]

FYI - Gotta pick up a new USB drive for this. I have several, but all that I have of desirable size is for dedicated stuff like backups, transport, etc... But, I'll be playing with Ubuntu by the weekend!

If I can run a dual-boot environment smoothly and don't get any fuss from the apps I'll be using (ie: It really is a legit way to run Win10 without issues) then I will be a "Ubuntu Dual-Boot Win 10 Man" just like all the cool guys! And, if there's no issue with vm's, I'll do that too.

... new paradigm with SaaS ...

There's that word, again... Abbreviation... Blworb... (Don't worry, made that last word up.)

I understand the concept, but don't understand the friggin necessity, other than it's a new way for developers to lock-in continuing finance and enslave a population...

"SAASGYBTB - Software as a Service, Got you by the balls"

There, much better.

Justifications I can't stand...

"It's much cheaper for you to lease the service than paying for the full product... just as long as you don't actually continue your use for any reasonable amount of time, that is."

or

"Don't worry, you can unsubscribe at any time. Unsubscribing only means that you will no longer be able to receive support or software updates. The product will continue to function just fine... until we change our proprietary file-format standard to a version that can not be read or written to by software that has not been updated."

[Antilogic]

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Stick in that and have a play. If you like it enough, you can setup a dual boot.

Windows will not complain about the dual boot.

SaaS is pretty awesome.

[pjknibbs]

Ubuntu also has an option called WUBI where you can install it without repartitioning your hard drive--it basically sets up its primary hard drive as a single big file on your Windows NTFS partition, but otherwise works exactly like a regular dual-boot.

[Praefectus classis]

FYI - Gotta pick up a new USB drive for this. I have several, but all that I have of desirable size is for dedicated stuff like backups, transport, etc... But, I'll be playing with Ubuntu by the weekend!

Have a look at Linux Mint too. I prefer the layout better than Ubuntu. Some of the versions are based on Ubuntu.

[Antilogic]

FYI - Gotta pick up a new USB drive for this. I have several, but all that I have of desirable size is for dedicated stuff like backups, transport, etc... But, I'll be playing with Ubuntu by the weekend!

Have a look at Linux Mint too. I prefer the layout better than Ubuntu. Some of the versions are based on Ubuntu.

I deliberately resisted suggesting anything else because Ubuntu is the perfect beginner tool while being fully functional and it's something generally agreed upon. Let's not be like every freaking linux forum and drown the guy in "My distro is better" messages ^^

[Praefectus classis]

FYI - Gotta pick up a new USB drive for this. I have several, but all that I have of desirable size is for dedicated stuff like backups, transport, etc... But, I'll be playing with Ubuntu by the weekend!

Have a look at Linux Mint too. I prefer the layout better than Ubuntu. Some of the versions are based on Ubuntu.

I deliberately resisted suggesting anything else because Ubuntu is the perfect beginner tool while being fully functional and it's something generally agreed upon. Let's not be like every freaking linux forum and drown the guy in "My distro is better" messages ^^

Linux Mint has a similar layout to Windows with the menu bar as standard at the bottom, therefore it would be more familiar to someone moving from Windows. I started on Linux with Ubuntu but I much prefer the Linux Mint layout. That's why I recommended Linux Mint. It can be always be downloaded and burnt to a DVD (or USB stick) and tried as a live session without installation first. The OP can then decide which one he prefers.

[esd]

I'd have to agree, Mint is a pretty good beginner Linux - when my other half's machine needed a new OS to tide her over before we could buy a copy of Win7 and a new HDD, we put Mint on there. Served well enough and was quite usable.

[Antilogic]

Hands in the air

Though I'm finding the topic title extremely amusing now.

[jlehtone]

Linux Mint has a similar layout

Code: Select all

Desktop != OS

If you think that OS has only one layout, then OS X is strong in you?

There are many Desktop Environments to choose from, most are customizable, and you can both install and use them in same Linux installation.
One should not choose an OS based on the looks, for looks can be replaced (except in some niche OS).

Distros differ mainly by their "App Stores"; their package repositories and by their policy on less-open software.


Ubuntu was accused couple years ago for opt-out search tool that gathered data (in no way different from Windows 10) "for the good of the user".


There are not enough Windows 10 versions! Clearly!
Proof: all posters on this thread have not found a satisfying version of Windows 10.

[BugMeister]

I am very satisfied with the current Windows 10 Insider Version (v. 18290) issued yesterday..
and I have reported this fact to Microsoft via their Feedback Hub..

- is that just Bugmeister being contrary again?
- No - it's a fact.. Windows 10 is the best!!
- having been actively involved with testing the OS for the last 3 years - I have no hesitation in making that statement..

[red assassin]

There's that word, again... Abbreviation... Blworb... (Don't worry, made that last word up.)

I understand the concept, but don't understand the friggin necessity, other than it's a new way for developers to lock-in continuing finance and enslave a population...

"SAASGYBTB - Software as a Service, Got you by the balls"

There, much better.

Justifications I can't stand...

"It's much cheaper for you to lease the service than paying for the full product... just as long as you don't actually continue your use for any reasonable amount of time, that is."

or

"Don't worry, you can unsubscribe at any time. Unsubscribing only means that you will no longer be able to receive support or software updates. The product will continue to function just fine... until we change our proprietary file-format standard to a version that can not be read or written to by software that has not been updated."

The advantage of SaaS from an enterprise PoV is that it offloads all the hidden costs. Compare, say, a classical small office setup vs a modern cloud setup. In the classical version, you probably have a couple of DCs, an Outlook server, a web/application server or three, a file server, some sort of backup system, maybe a few other bits like VPN or RDP servers, and Windows and Office licenses for each of your desktops. In the cloud version, nearly all of that exists as some sort of abstracted service in the cloud, and all you really have on-premises is some collection of desktops, laptops, mobile devices, etc (each of which is just a subscriber to your Office365 service).

Sure, you pay more on cloud fees in the latter model than you ever paid for software licenses in the former model, but by the time you've added hardware costs, power costs, the dedicated IT resource it takes to maintain all that, and the risk you carry from backup failures, security issues, and the like, suddenly having it all managed for you starts to look a whole lot more attractive.

As a home user it's perhaps less attractive, though.

[Morkonan]

The advantage of SaaS from an enterprise PoV is that it offloads all the hidden costs....As a home user it's perhaps less attractive, though.

I agree with everything you wrote.

It's just that I'm used to the appearance that I actually "own" a piece of software. I used to buy software off of real, live, shelves. I had to drive to a store. I sometimes even talked to the people that worked there. Often, I'd go to the "Computer Store" with friends and we'd hunt through the shelves for our prey... It came in a box. It had a manual! A MANUAL! There were even disks! Some of them weren't even "disklike." And, sometimes, when I was alone with it and installing it for the first time, it even thanked me for buying it... It was happy to be installed on my computer. Mine. My computer. Not "Micro$oft's Marketing Tool that shoves friggin' Candy Crush up your ____," but mine.

Why do I feel like I'm trespassing on my own computer whenever I want to do something to my system to make it do the thing with the thing?

I want my computer back.

Funny story (Maybe):

So, a few years ago, I had to buy a new laptop. My desktop was dead, I had work to do, and I was also spending a lot of time on the road. OK, buy a good, robust, laptop and everything will be better, right? Right! So, I ran out to the store and got a nice, robust, laptop. Great power, would even run X3 and lots of other games AND even still run "productivity software." Cool! I got home to discover that my air conditioning was out... Yay? OK, no problem, it's hot and really humid, so I'll just turn on a fan, take my shirt off, and call the repairman in the morning, right? Right! I ate some dinner, watched a show, fell asleep, woke up and decided to unbox my new laptop and get to work "making it mine."

I booted it up, got it registered, updated, etc, and started exploring some of its "features." The next thing I know it had it taken an unauthorized picture of me through its camera and it was asking if I wanted to associate that pic with my user-account profile.

o.0

A pic of me with sweaty "couch-nap hair", shirtless /flex, staring like a drooling mouth-breather at the screen... I looked like an Instagram predator.

So, yeah, I get the whole "Newspeak Monetization Formula." But, I want my computer back.

Hands in the air

Though I'm finding the topic title extremely amusing now.

^--- This. Time for a Linux distro thread?

[Zetoss]

Hey everyone, sorry for being overly fashinably late to the party I somehow accidentally started got caught up in a bunch of very ill timed stuff that urgently needed to be dealt with. Worst of all that could possibly happen is that I'll be AFK during the launch of X4 thanks to some screwups that need my help sorting out their mess so I should try to get 2 more hours of sleep asap.

First of all thanks to all participants, even the ones I totally disagree with because just holding hands and agreeing about everything never really digs up the pros and cons of stuff. Somewhat discouraging that there's still no conclusive answer to if the "enterprise" 10 can be told to actually not force updates instead of being a jerk, if anyone could shed some light on that it would be much appreciated.

Regarding privacy I would also be interested in knowing if enterprise 10 could be told to not track ANYTHING EVER since I'm working on "stuff" and it's incredibly hard to overstate just how important secrecy is to keep me from losing the possibility of registering trademarks or patents, if even a single phrase slips out an entire project can be instantly ruined forever. No I'm not exaggerating, I could literally ruin my chances of getting the (possibly quite well paying) job I'm currently aiming for by uttering two specific words (together and in the correct order mind you) in any way shape or form anywhere before the time is right. Even typing these two words together in a search engine could lead to them being added in a statistics database somewhere and become a time bomb until their meaning loses all value because another entity beats me to the punch, even if the risk is one in a million it's a risk I don't want to take because it would be stupid.

Also I envy those of you who can jump ship to Linux, maybe once the horrible day comes when I need new hardware the programs I need have also been released for Linux... Once again thanks to everyone, I'll try to be less fashionable with any additional reply but hey life happens.

[MarvinTheMartian]

First of all thanks to all participants, even the ones I totally disagree with because just holding hands and agreeing about everything never really digs up the pros and cons of stuff. Somewhat discouraging that there's still no conclusive answer to if the "enterprise" 10 can be told to actually not force updates instead of being a jerk, if anyone could shed some light on that it would be much appreciated.

We did go a bit off topic eh.

I don't know if you can buy Enterprise edition without a volume license agreement or similar so I'll let someone else answer that but I certainly can't buy it online or at my local hardware store that's happy to sell me W10 OEM home or professional. Either way, MS want you to keep Windows up to date so you will have to go to some lengths to control the updates while also patching inevitable bugs and security vulnerabilities.

TL;DR - Whichever edition, Windows 10 is an improvement for performance and security in general but use a 3rd party firewall and browser allowing only the bare minimum you need (to play X4) and disable services you don't want - I'm looking at you Cortana! But periodically check under the covers as MS will have re-enabled services and added new ones over time with updates.

In terms of privacy, photos of sweaty couch-hair aside , you will have to put some effort in to lock it down, however, I do not believe MS actually pass on identifiable data but I don't know your situation and exactly how sensitive it is and if you trust Microsoft with it.

The opinions I have shared here are a personal objection to having less control over the personal information that is collected and what is done with it. Without taking steps to prevent it, Windows 10 will index the content of your local and cloud documents, track your online browsing, record your WiFi passwords plus a whole bunch of other stuff that gets sent to MS HQ and can, in the case of WiFi passwords for example, be shared with your social media contacts.

Windows 10 itself may be more "secure", faster and stable than previous versions (I'll give them that) but you do need to put in a lot of time and effort to control these "features" and keep them under control each time the OS is updated. From what you've just written, you don't sound like the sort of end-user that just clicks Next->Next->Finish to every app that's installed but even then you should take a look at what ports have been opened up and what services have been re-enabled each time you do. I've tried using Windows Advanced Firewall but have come to the conclusion that a 3rd party one would be better as Windows Update can't change the rules without you knowing.

I could go on all night but I'll call it quits there and just say again that this is not just an MS thing (can't speak about Apple, I just don't like the taste) as Samsung, Google etc. all want your information to "provide a better service" and it's in their interest to make it difficult, if not impossible, to opt-out and the vast majority of end users just go with it for the convenience. I think this is why so many are saying "Linux!" as open source means transparency about what it's doing. I would love to be 100% Linux.

[MarvinTheMartian]

I am very satisfied with the current Windows 10 Insider Version (v. 18290) issued yesterday..
and I have reported this fact to Microsoft via their Feedback Hub..

- is that just Bugmeister being contrary again?
- No - it's a fact.. Windows 10 is the best!!
- having been actively involved with testing the OS for the last 3 years - I have no hesitation in making that statement..

You can't just say it's fact, it's your opinion. You're entitled to it but others may disagree.

I've been a windows insider since Windows 7 came one the scene and I was incredibly excited to see the Vista mess being cleared up and was an active contributor to testing and answering questions.

I just have a problem with the move from Microsoft to the new world order of my personal PC and its contents being integrated into an homogeneous online identity being shared in ways I can't control. I can choose to limit what I put in cloud storage, whether I include that lunchtime McDonald's visit on my G+ timeline or what life event I share on Facebook but my PC was my vault for all things mine and mine alone and it's a battle to keep it that way.

The fact that we have to consider a corporate (not just business) version of Windows to have any kind of control over this says it all.

[Antilogic]

You cannot buy Enterprise if you do not have a Volume License Agreement.

As I said, there are only two versions for consumers. Home and Pro will both do the job fine. If you want to add your PC to any domains, encrypt etc then you want pro: Breakdown: https://cdn.ndtv.com/tech/images/gadget ... ficial.jpg

I have never had an issue with Windows Update on my home machines. Then again my active hours is set to a sensible time and I do not put them off. 99% of the time it has setup to patch when I shutdown for the night. The extra 30 second delay on startup the next day is somehow manageable.

Patching insistence wouldn't be required if humanity wasn't universally not giving the sightest crap about patching and creating a massive global security crisis.

[Morkonan]

Win10 patches/updates have psuedo-bricked my laptop about three times, now, forcing into either an "Attempting Repairs" or "Spinning Thingie of Doom" screen forever until I repeatedly reboot/restart. The last time it took three days of fiddling to get it to fix itself and I STILL don't know wtf it's doing. The only error is a "Driver Watchdog" error and it locks out all the recovery/bios/function keys when it does this, so there's no way to get to anything meaningful other than forcing a manual reboot and hoping that it eventually fixes is friggin' self... Even the "Don't insert a paperclip and press this Emergency Use Reset System Button Unless Your System is Completely Borked" button does nothing at all...Nada. Nothing. Useless... friggin...hnnnggh.. thing... Win10 just sits there and spins itself. I dunno, it may be losing/locking out driver info for the keyboard/IO or something... dunno, don't care. I recommend getting mad and cursing a lot because it seems to help.

I've never understood all the constant complaints about "People not updating their Windows OS installs" that Micro$oft makes. It may just be my generation, but I've never known anyone that didn't allow updates and patches. The only people I know who habitually don't update OSs are industry/org/government systems that are running legacyware or internally developed crap that requires stuff like XP Service Pack 1 or something.

(PS : Is there any data from anyone that has a reliable estimate for how many people don't update? Prob hack tracking or some hack that reports to a known location that can be counted, maybe? But, it'd be hard to see how many individual, private, users didn't update versus business/industry users that can't update unless Micro$oft could weigh in on that.)

On a Windohs related note: Microsoft to offer extended Windows 7 patching and update service! YAY! Win 7 will remain viable for three years or so after the planned phase-out, so that's great news for those who require it! (It seems it will be a special subscription service, per install. Still, it's good news.)

[jlehtone]

There is trivial way to solve the update and privacy concerns: do not connect Windows machine into network[1]. If that is too restrictive, then set your edge firewall to limit the WAN-access of Windows to bare minimum; as close to "nothing in, nothing out" as possible[2]. Net browsing you can do from trusted systems.



[1] IIRC, an early Win NT version did pass (US Gov?) security certification, provided that the PC was disconnected from all networks.
[2] Allow egress forum.egosoft.com:https ?

[red assassin]

Regarding privacy I would also be interested in knowing if enterprise 10 could be told to not track ANYTHING EVER since I'm working on "stuff" and it's incredibly hard to overstate just how important secrecy is to keep me from losing the possibility of registering trademarks or patents, if even a single phrase slips out an entire project can be instantly ruined forever. No I'm not exaggerating, I could literally ruin my chances of getting the (possibly quite well paying) job I'm currently aiming for by uttering two specific words (together and in the correct order mind you) in any way shape or form anywhere before the time is right. Even typing these two words together in a search engine could lead to them being added in a statistics database somewhere and become a time bomb until their meaning loses all value because another entity beats me to the punch, even if the risk is one in a million it's a risk I don't want to take because it would be stupid.

If this is your risk model you should be keeping things related to this project airgapped. There are enough ways of accidentally leaking something you didn't mean to if you're network connected without worrying about the OS's telemetry.

I've never understood all the constant complaints about "People not updating their Windows OS installs" that Micro$oft makes. It may just be my generation, but I've never known anyone that didn't allow updates and patches. The only people I know who habitually don't update OSs are industry/org/government systems that are running legacyware or internally developed crap that requires stuff like XP Service Pack 1 or something.

(PS : Is there any data from anyone that has a reliable estimate for how many people don't update? Prob hack tracking or some hack that reports to a known location that can be counted, maybe? But, it'd be hard to see how many individual, private, users didn't update versus business/industry users that can't update unless Micro$oft could weigh in on that.)

Home users don't update because they don't want to be interrupted, don't want to wait for shutdown, don't trust it not to break, etc etc. Granted, Microsoft aren't helping themselves with how much of a pain in the ass Windows Update is - updates on Linux certainly aren't as intrusive! But it's definitely a real problem. Organisations don't update because if they're small they don't have IT staff to manage the updates, and if they're big they've got stuff that might occasionally break because of updates. Look at WannaCry if you want an example of how much trouble this causes - that whole drama happened months after Microsoft patched the bugs it was using.

[Morkonan]

..Home users don't update because they don't want to be interrupted, don't want to wait for shutdown, don't trust it not to break, etc etc. Granted, Microsoft aren't helping themselves with how much of a pain in the ass Windows Update is - updates on Linux certainly aren't as intrusive! But it's definitely a real problem. Organisations don't update because if they're small they don't have IT staff to manage the updates, and if they're big they've got stuff that might occasionally break because of updates. Look at WannaCry if you want an example of how much trouble this causes - that whole drama happened months after Microsoft patched the bugs it was using.

I agree. It's just that I don't personally know anyone who doesn't allow their Windows-based OS to update regularly in some fashion. For myself, at least with Win7, I pick and choose the time, but always update within a few hours of the notification.

It's likely due to my age cohort that I don't personally know any home users of the sort that Microsoft keeps rattling on about. As far as large network environments are concerned, they have other priorities and should have personnel dedicated to security concerns. "Should." That doesn't mean they're "effective" personnel, though.

People shoot themselves in the face while cleaning their gun. They walk out into traffic while texting on their phone. They break their foot running into the coffee-table that hasn't been moved in decades... I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that quite a few of them also don't regularly update their computer's operating system, still use "Internet Explorer," don't use a script-blocker and have no idea what an "Anti-Virus" program is.