Discovery Season 2 (spoilers likely)

[Usenko]

Has anyone seen the first episode?

I watched it with the Usenkolets the other day, and we thought it was pretty good.

[berth]

Yeah, I can't quite put my finger on it but I found it all a bit "meh" - perhaps it was trying too hard?

Anyway, we'll see how it develops..

[Gavrushka]

The first few minutes wandered a bit, and pjknibbs pointed out the huge howler towards the end, but I love the premise for the second series. Yeah, it could've been better, but I'm sure it'll improve in further episodes as did the 1st series.

[Usenko]

Yeah, about that . . Star Trek has really lucked out with its fans. We notice a glitch in continuity somewhere; we crow about it and complain that the scriptwriters should have picked it up, then we come up with a clever canonical way the oddity could be explained.

If any other show had fans like that, their production crew would be sipping Jippers on a beach somewhere . .

[Gavrushka]

If a continuity affects immersivity, I'd be less than happy, but Star Trek has 50 years of lore to contend with, so it's gonna be awash with a few pre-existing ambiguities anyhow. I'm fine with it, and I'm sure most people are, as long as they don't try and pull a 'Lost' final episode on us all. They won't, but any Star Trek series is always gonna have an element of poison chalice about it.

I am very, very much looking forward to episode 2.

[pjknibbs]

If a continuity affects immersivity, I'd be less than happy

My tipping point is if I spot the issue while watching the episode, because I get thrown out of the story that way. In this case, I only noticed the issue when thinking back over the episode afterward, so it gets a pass from me on that front. Also, I still don't know if Discovery is supposed to be set in the original TOS/TNG/DS9 etc. canon or if it's a standalone thing set in (another) parallel universe--it's pretty clear it's not in the "Kelvin" movie timeline because the ships don't look like they have hairdryers instead of warp nacelles.

[ApoxNM]

Has anyone seen the first episode?

I watched it with the Usenkolets the other day, and we thought it was pretty good.

I did, and I like it, I like the dark gritty feel and good production value in terms of graphics and such.

But if you want the trekkier feel, gotta watch the orville!

[pjknibbs]

Problem with the Orville is that, while it's on Amazon Prime in the States, it's *not* in the UK--it's only on Fox's streaming service. However good it is, I'm not going to encourage these studios who want all the money there is by subscribing to them when I already have Netflix and Amazon Prime.

[ApoxNM]

Problem with the Orville is that, while it's on Amazon Prime in the States, it's *not* in the UK--it's only on Fox's streaming service. However good it is, I'm not going to encourage these studios who want all the money there is by subscribing to them when I already have Netflix and Amazon Prime.

Well, I have some other pages on which I stream series... for free and technically in europe it's not illegal, as I am not uploading anything.

[esd]

Yeah let's not go getting into that side of things, even by means of a nudge-nudge wink-wink.

I'm enjoying Disco S2 - my other half says it's dark in a way DS9 wanted to be. Fun tho.

[Usenko]

A few not-very-spoiler-ish thoughts:

1) Anson Mount's Christopher Pike is amazingly good. He is willing to allow his bridge crew to shine rather than being an autocrat.

2) Because of this, IMMEDIATELY we got to see more of the individual personalities of the bridge crew in the first episode of season 2 than the entire season 1.

3) Jett Reno is hilarious, and one of the most believable characters in the whole series so far.

4) Saru is fantastic as always, but again, the more stable Captain Pike makes it more possible for his personality to be seen.

5) The personality of Tilly is adorable; but she appears somewhat incompetent, and it's hard to see why they're giving a mere ensign such a lot of responsibility. We need to see why they put up with such a dweeb on one of the most advanced starships in the fleet.

6) Stamets is competent as always, but what does he actually DO on Discovery? They SAY he's the Chief Engineer, but we're not seeing a lot of engineering; he has mostly been a scientist last season, and now . . well, he's got no role.

7) Burnham is too damn good at everything. She still keeps spouting Cassandra truths. It would be really nice to see her make a confident statement of fact and wind up being completely wrong!

One of the big questions last season was "Why doesn't Spock ever speak of his human foster sister?" Early days yet, but it looks like we could see a sensible answer to that question.

9) Overall, this feels much more Star Trek-ish than last season.

[pjknibbs]

5) The personality of Tilly is adorable; but she appears somewhat incompetent, and it's hard to see why they're giving a mere ensign such a lot of responsibility. We need to see why they put up with such a dweeb on one of the most advanced starships in the fleet.

I have never seen her as being the slightest bit incompetent. She's ditzy, and tends to stumble over her words, but in her field she's every bit as good as Stamets is. It was her that came up with the plan to capture the asteroid, after all.

[Gavrushka]

5) The personality of Tilly is adorable; but she appears somewhat incompetent, and it's hard to see why they're giving a mere ensign such a lot of responsibility. We need to see why they put up with such a dweeb on one of the most advanced starships in the fleet.

I have never seen her as being the slightest bit incompetent. She's ditzy, and tends to stumble over her words, but in her field she's every bit as good as Stamets is. It was her that came up with the plan to capture the asteroid, after all.

I must admit I'd seen her as highly effective, but socially awkward. What is kept inside of most of us, erupts from her mouth at the most inopportune times, and I love her for it. One of my favourite cast members, and one that far more senior officers turn to for advice.

[Usenko]

5) The personality of Tilly is adorable; but she appears somewhat incompetent, and it's hard to see why they're giving a mere ensign such a lot of responsibility. We need to see why they put up with such a dweeb on one of the most advanced starships in the fleet.

I have never seen her as being the slightest bit incompetent. She's ditzy, and tends to stumble over her words, but in her field she's every bit as good as Stamets is. It was her that came up with the plan to capture the asteroid, after all.

Fair call, that works in some respects, but there's still a problem with her portrayal. There needs to be a phase where you see her go from her area of incompetence (human relationships) to her area of competence. We know vaguely that she was responsible for capturing the asteroid. We don't know exactly how she was involved, only that she demanded a piece of tech be positioned, and that when the 'roid was safe, she was the one getting the high fives. How? Why?

I'm not just saying we need to KNOW - we already do, Starfleet people are extraordinary. But we need to SEE it.

(To be fair, she may be the victim of cut scenes).

When we first met Julian Bashir in Deep Space Nine, we saw that he managed to get Kira and Odo annoyed almost immediately by his youthful arrogance. His weakness was seen well. But then, when the excrement made contact with the rotary air distribution device, we got to see him in action. People didn't just say "Man, he's a good doctor," we saw him save lives calmly and competently. By the end of the episode Bashir's place in the crew was no longer questionable; he was there for a damn good reason.

We have yet to see Tilly go through this process (except in the episode where she pretended to be Killy!). We know that the Discovery crew trust her; we need to see her in action to understand why!

[Morkonan]

I haven't seen the show, but I did read about a vicious rumor the other day:

It seems they have done a Harry Mudd backstory thing. But, in this iteration, Mudd isn't a somewhat bumbling con-man, but a hardened criminal... Is this true? Mudd, in TOS, wouldn't have ever killed anyone. Sure, he was a conniving little bartard, but that's where it stopped.

Now he's a nasty criminal instead of "comic relief?" Say it ain't so!

[pjknibbs]

They did, indeed, go with that in the first season. Mudd had some sort of time travel device and was messing up the timeline.

[Morkonan]

They did, indeed, go with that in the first season. Mudd had some sort of time travel device and was messing up the timeline.

So, from "Loveable Rogue" to "Time-Traveling Psychopath?" Oh, noes! Another dream dashed against the rocks of retconning reboots... {roducers/writers "doing stuff just to do it" is just... wrong. Next up - Carnivorous Tribbles.

[Usenko]

They did, indeed, go with that in the first season. Mudd had some sort of time travel device and was messing up the timeline.

So, from "Loveable Rogue" to "Time-Traveling Psychopath?" Oh, noes! Another dream dashed against the rocks of retconning reboots... {roducers/writers "doing stuff just to do it" is just... wrong. Next up - Carnivorous Tribbles.

It's difficult to explain, but he works. He's definitely more or less the same character, but in the darker universe he comes across darker.

He's a conman, through and through. And he's funny. But he's willing to hurt people if it suits his goals (which, to be fair, is not actually contradicting his original character; just we never got to see him during an actual shooting war).

One of the Short Trek series is a 15 minute Harry Mudd story, and it is absolutely brilliant. It's enough to say that you're never quite sure whether Mudd is telling the truth or not right up to the end; but no matter what you're expecting, you're wrong.

[Bishop149]

5) The personality of Tilly is adorable; but she appears somewhat incompetent, and it's hard to see why they're giving a mere ensign such a lot of responsibility. We need to see why they put up with such a dweeb on one of the most advanced starships in the fleet.

I have never seen her as being the slightest bit incompetent. She's ditzy, and tends to stumble over her words, but in her field she's every bit as good as Stamets is. It was her that came up with the plan to capture the asteroid, after all.

To me Tilly embodies what the federation should be and indeed likes to promotes itself as. Competent and strong sure, but first and foremost compassionate, cooperative and kind.
The fact she's such a stark contrast to most of what she's surrounded by is, I like to think, something of a commentary on what Starfleet has generally been portrayed as to date.
Up to a point I see Stamets in a similar way, and I really think he encapsulated Tilly beautifully in the first episode of season 2 with: "You're going to be great Captain, you do everything with love."

BTW whilst googling to see if I spelt his name right I discovered this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Stamets

[Usenko]

5) The personality of Tilly is adorable; but she appears somewhat incompetent, and it's hard to see why they're giving a mere ensign such a lot of responsibility. We need to see why they put up with such a dweeb on one of the most advanced starships in the fleet.

I have never seen her as being the slightest bit incompetent. She's ditzy, and tends to stumble over her words, but in her field she's every bit as good as Stamets is. It was her that came up with the plan to capture the asteroid, after all.

To me Tilly embodies what the federation should be and indeed likes to promotes itself as. Competent and strong sure, but first and foremost compassionate, cooperative and kind.
The fact she's such a stark contrast to most of what she's surrounded by is, I like to think, something of a commentary on what Starfleet has generally been portrayed as to date.
Up to a point I see Stamets in a similar way, and I really think he encapsulated Tilly beautifully in the first episode of season 2 with: "You're going to be great Captain, you do everything with love."

BTW whilst googling to see if I spelt his name right I discovered this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Stamets

I would agree with this entirely, but it doesn't invalidate my concern - I want to actually SEE Tilly's ccmpetence. Some people are saying her awkwardness is irritating; not at all, that's fine. Just let us see what she's good at, not just tantalising hints when she's actually done something amazing off screen!