You aren't normal

[Bishop149]

The simple truth is that no body is "normal", however many (most?) of us want to belong. If there is ANY universal human truth it is probably that we are deeply social creatures that crave connections with others.
Personally I think the best way to achieve this is to embrace and celebrate our differences and lack of normality and I am mistrustful of any attempts to group or segregate people, such endeavours can only sow division.

I will give one example which I think is the one I object to the most (probably because I am arguably part of the in-group in question).
"Neurotypical"
A word that has its origins in use by those on the autistic spectrum to describe people not on it, but it's also often broadened out to mean anyone not suffering any form of metal "illness".
Why don't I like it? Well firstly it's defining an "us and them". Secondly it isn't a group self defining themselves (which can be useful and empowering), it's a group specifically defining the "other" instead. Thirdly it's meaningless, we know so little about the organ inside our skulls that we can't even begin to define "normal" or "typical". Even the various names we assign to "abnormal" (such as autistic, depressive, epileptic etc) are obviously highly subjective and at best groupings assigned for clinical convenience that likely bear little relationship to anything real or causative.
Before the advent of genetics the genetic conditions I work on where lumped together in a similar way. Now we know they actually have very little to do with each other save that they affect the same organ system.

I have slightly similar feelings about "transgender" and "cisgender" but am a little more giving there as the history is rather complex and these terms emerged primarily out of the gender binary itself.
Personally I favour the term "queer" to cover all possible variations outside the pervasively normalised heterosexual gender binary, but some people actively hate that word so each to their own.
As a biologist I will make one further purely scientific point.
"Sex" is the size of your gametes, nothing else. If you have comparably large gametes you are female, comparatively small and you are male. If you do not produce gametes then arguably you have no biological "sex".
"Gender" is everything else and not necessarily linked in any way to sex.

Finally in relation to sex and gender I commend the following article to you, showing that even taking the very narrow focus of a single mammalian species (humans) the topic is more complex than you probably thought.
https://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

[Antilogic]

Anti... I don't really know you from Adam, but I think you're a star. You wrote the single most memorable post I have ever read on any forum, and I know it touched a lot of us here very deeply. It may not be a bed of roses being you, but please don't even think about trying to become normal if that means changing who you are !

Thanks for this Pretty much couldn't reply yesterday because I was crying too much heh.

Things

I'm not sure if I fully understand your entire point. And I guess mine wasn't so much with my own troubles about being normal as it is about other people applying their own perspective of normal onto me. I'm changing my name fairly soon and thinking about work and all that around is interesting. What will happen when people find out, how will they react, etc. Will their definition of normal influence how they act?

Life is full of people who dont care to be in other people's shoes, even among family. Unfortunately. I don't know how to understand them, so I don't.

At this point, there can come a profound advice or maybe a question to elaborate of what you are dealing with. If you want to discuss this, we can.

With my girlfriends family, there's little to do but be there for her when needed. Long distance relationship... can suck. She's gay, and because of that fact members of her family who known her growing up disowned or otherwise treat her poorly. It's... just eh, I don't get it.

"Sex" is the size of your gametes, nothing else. If you have comparably large gametes you are female, comparatively small and you are male. If you do not produce gametes then arguably you have no biological "sex".
"Gender" is everything else and not necessarily linked in any way to sex.

Yes, that's where the transgender separation is coming from. I can accept that I am Male (unhappily), but I am not a "man". I can take proactive action if I desire to become more "Female", but it's a body that's gone through male puberty so lets not make any grand declarations.

I am aware that sex itself, or the understanding of it rather, is in a increased state of flux. Intersex people are becoming more understood.

Honestly the whole thing was more about, external pressure or desires of others to inflict their version of normality and how that affects those that don't meet those standards. We don't always have a reasonable and understanding perspective as such has been found in this thread.

[Bishop149]

Yes, that's where the transgender separation is coming from. I can accept that I am Male (unhappily), but I am not a "man". I can take proactive action if I desire to become more "Female", but it's a body that's gone through male puberty so lets not make any grand declarations.

I am aware that sex itself, or the understanding of it rather, is in a increased state of flux. Intersex people are becoming more understood.

Honestly the whole thing was more about, external pressure or desires of others to inflict their version of normality and how that affects those that don't meet those standards. We don't always have a reasonable and understanding perspective as such has been found in this thread.

I get you, biologically I am male. Sadly I am also in large part a man, but as the my choice of words implies I do not see a wealth of merit in that particular gender identity.
I strive to be something else. I have no desire to change my body but my internal biases and external presentation sure could could use some work.
I have fully embraced changing the former because frankly its just the right thing to do, the latter however I am too scared to change (even in a minor way) for fear of derision. . . . much as you describe.

[fiksal]

With my girlfriends family, there's little to do but be there for her when needed. Long distance relationship... can suck. She's gay, and because of that fact members of her family who known her growing up disowned or otherwise treat her poorly. It's... just eh, I don't get it.

Apparently that sort of thing can take years. As in, with time people may slowly realize that it's not worth ruining family.

I know two families who disowned their kids. Second one being a family of my friend, who they disowned for who he married.

And that list is probably small, as I look over my social net, I can probably find more people in that same situation.

[Morkonan]

I'm not sure if I fully understand your entire point. And I guess mine wasn't so much with my own troubles about being normal as it is about other people applying their own perspective of normal onto me. I'm changing my name fairly soon and thinking about work and all that around is interesting. What will happen when people find out, how will they react, etc. Will their definition of normal influence how they act?

But, where's the "abnormal" here? Changing your name? They have a system in place for that, so others do it too, right? Check - Normal.

Absolutely, people might react to something you do. But, it would be friggin' abnormal if people didn't react to something you did, wouldn't it? :)If you come over here and start humping my wool rug, I'm going to "react." That you'd expect I might is "normal," right?

And, if you do something unusual or "abnormal," then so what? Don't revel in it as being "special" or be so apprehensive about something you must do, no matter how abnormal it may outwardly seem, that you resent people "reacting." People react and they should react. The main notion is that they should not negatively react to something abnormal unless it is destructive, disruptive, or harmful... If you walk naked into a grocery store to do your shopping because "That's just how I roll and you'll just have to deal with it" then you're going to "normally" get taken to the looney bin or the jail, depending upon the mood of the arresting officers.

Do no be surprised or resentful of people who react to something unusual or unexpected. Just don't. That's what people do. But, what really matters is whether or not what you're doing is harmful in some way or needlessly and negatively impacts others and if their reaction negatively impacts you. And, I don't mean that it may negatively impact their "expectations" of you, personally, either - That doesn't matter a bit. You are what matters as far as the person's who's expectations need resolution, not someone else.

Just don't change your forum NIC. I hate when people do that and it needlessly and negatively impacts my life and disrupts the society of the forum.

Edit:Add - On gender identity disorders, my opinion.

There are several types of people out there. There are some that get involved in this because they do, very much so, have a diagnosable gender identity disorder. Then, there are some that don't, but get so involved in such an idea that they actively seek out support and validation, often joining others who are having issues that may not even have anything to do with gender identity problems. They adopt the gestalt of the group not because of their disorder, but because of the support and self-affirmation assuming such an identity holds for them.

GID exists. It is a "true thing." But, unfortunately, many people suffer from related issues and insecurities that they are desperately seeking a label for. Without it, they can't define one of the most significant parts of their lives, so it's sure that they're going to try to find some way to define that for themselves.

And, the only way to really come to understand this is by such persons seeking out professional, qualified, help. QUALIFIED. There are far too many crappy got-my-degree-online and why-don't-you-try-out-Himalayan-Salt-and-Meditation "Counselors" and "Therapists" out there. No. People need qualified professional help when and how they need it and that means a degreed and licensed professional with a state certification and who will answer "Yes" when they ask "Have you counseled many people with this sort of problem." An MD/PHD is where to start.

[Masterbagger]

Yes, that's where the transgender separation is coming from. I can accept that I am Male (unhappily), but I am not a "man". I can take proactive action if I desire to become more "Female", but it's a body that's gone through male puberty so lets not make any grand declarations.

I am aware that sex itself, or the understanding of it rather, is in a increased state of flux. Intersex people are becoming more understood.

Honestly the whole thing was more about, external pressure or desires of others to inflict their version of normality and how that affects those that don't meet those standards. We don't always have a reasonable and understanding perspective as such has been found in this thread.

I get you, biologically I am male. Sadly I am also in large part a man, but as the my choice of words implies I do not see a wealth of merit in that particular gender identity.
I strive to be something else. I have no desire to change my body but my internal biases and external presentation sure could could use some work.
I have fully embraced changing the former because frankly its just the right thing to do, the latter however I am too scared to change (even in a minor way) for fear of derision. . . . much as you describe.

The answer to fear of peer pressure is confidence in yourself. Your sense of self worth is not determined by what others think of you. I can't help you with your problems but know that you are not the only one who fits poorly into the social fabric others have constructed around them.

[BugMeister]

I can't help you with your problems but know that you are not the only one who fits poorly into the social fabric others have constructed around themselves.

in other words..