Hardware selection for X4

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bof111
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Hardware selection for X4

Post by bof111 » Mon, 11. Feb 19, 18:14

Hi all !

I'm back in business seeing that we got a new X game. :)

For the occasion i will upgrade my rig in order to be able do play X4. But we all know that recommended specs are only some theory. My objective is to be able to play X4 with all the futur DLC or expansions at max without problems. X4 will be the most power demanding game for me for at least 5 years so the rig must hold at least 5 or 6 years. (so no OC or such, i seek durability)

That said, the recommended graphic card is the GTX 1070. So what do you think about a AMD RX Vega 56 (not OC) or a NVIDIA RTX 2060 (not OC)?

For the processor well, an Intel I7 7700 would be ok i presume ? What abour AMD on this ground, what would you recommend ?

Knowing that i will probably not buy X4 until summer. The second option is to wait until around May and see how the prices evolves. Good idea, bad idea anyone ?

Thanks all. :)

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 11. Feb 19, 21:31

It's probably best to continue discussion of hardware options and comparisons in the Off Topic forum as this is not really a 'Will my current system specs run X4' type of question. Over we go.

As for 'when to buy X4?' there is already this thread that you can use.
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Baconnaise » Mon, 11. Feb 19, 21:37

It really depends on your monitor setup. Are playing in 1080p/1440p/4k? A 256GB/500GB SSD is pretty much mandatory now. Budget is also a factor. The newer Ryzen and many of Intel's including the 4th gen Haswell/Devil's Canyon (especially OC'ed) are fine overall. No overclock will likely hold you back. I still have 2600k and 4790k machines in service I've OC'ed since I bought new. Used cards depending on your area are a steal right now due to mining. Some have warranties still. 1080p RX 570, RX 580, and GTX 1060 are standard. The 8GB variants of 580/590 are dirt cheap used and new. You might get some 1440p out of the AMD cards with their higher vram but don't expect miracles IMO. 1440p RTX 2060 is the entry level goto card atm. Vega 56 isn't bad depending on the price new or used here. RTX 2080 if you're looking for very high fps and you have a comparable rig to run it. 2160p-4K RTX 2080 or RTX 2080Ti but it's expensive.

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by StormMagi » Mon, 11. Feb 19, 22:12

Just for comparision (I haven't checked since early Dec. though), I run a Ryzen 2700X, GTX 1080TI, 32g ram, two 970 EVO NVME (os/games) with an Asus XG35VQ 35"(3440x1440) monitor. At launch time I could not run @ max everthing on start menu w/o dropping down to 10-20 FPS, I currently run 2x MSAA with everything else @ max, reflections on (some sort of special gfx trick, forget exactly what it is) and start menu is ~70ish but there are times in game when I can sense fps dropping down to 20-30 range if I start boosting/manuevering like crazy in a crowded environment (which isn't super common but it does happen). At this point I can only really blame the screen real estate for the drops in fps (and constantly loosing track of my cursor >_< Egosoft please make it a more visible color!). Save times with the EVO's are about 4-6s (I hear it is much worse with ssd/platter). A friend with similar monitor but a GTX 1060 cannot get playable framerate. So monitor resolution will make a big (or even extreme) difference depending on what card you choose.
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Morkonan » Mon, 11. Feb 19, 23:05

This is generally on-topic for this kind of thread, but it's my own query -

I've got a PC that's half-dead, recalcitrant on when it decides to work, and is coughing up blood... It works, after a fashion, after being struck by lightning. So, I'm going to be building a new rig to replace it so i can play X4 and do a bunch of 3D work I need to do. (Need = Beloved hobby)

I want a good rig, readily expandable, and that has certain characteristics:

Must be NVidia card, EVGA preferred, and must be SLI compatible if I want to expand to another. (Initial upfront for two may not be justifiable atm.) Mulitmonitor capable, good output choices. I do not have to have the "latest cutting edge card." A generation or two back is just fine. Currently running a "new" 1050Ti since I had to chuck my old card, which burned out last year.)

Intel i7 based only CPU, no exceptions.

RAM - I am woefully behind the curve on "what's good." Need suggestions, here, desperately. I need bunches and fast response.

A good, sturdy, performance-based, durable motherboard, preferably Gigabyte or Asus (but will consider others, just not budget-brands) and that supports a crapton of RAM and SLI capability/expansion as well as all the I/O options and gimcrackery I could want. (R/W DVD (ie:ATAPI), USB 2 and 3, bells&whistles considered, too)

CoolerMaster or Thermaltake preferred Power, 800 Watts or better (depending on SLI requirements)

Monitor - I'll have to do that, since I need a production quality monitor with wide color gamut and, likely, IPS, which makes it difficult in price-point for a "gaming" monitor. Might have to use a dual setup so I can get a relatively cheaper monitor for gaming.

Case - Large Server-Size case, CoolerMaster, Gigabyte, Antec are ones I have had excellent experiences with.

Price - Negotiable, but looking around $3k, USD or so.

OS - /sigh I will likely have to start off with Win10. (I prefer Win7 Pro) If I have to use Win10, I will likely be dual-booting a Linux flavor, since I hate friggin Win10. I have plenty of Win7 Pro license choices, no prob there if I'd rather stay with it.

Drive choices: I'll be using the standard SSD/HD setup. But, I may also include an SSD for running certain games.

I can certainly use drop-down "Build your own PC" menus from any number of sites. I'm just looking for any credible input I can get on making the "right choices" for what I want, which is a good gaming rig with excellent options for 3D modeling/rendering/display needs that I can later SLI for increased GPU rendering/work.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I didn't want to create a separate thread, so kinda co-opted this one. :)

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by StormMagi » Tue, 12. Feb 19, 03:28

Well for one, a production grade monitor with wide gamut I would say that is a 10 bit monitor but you will have to do research to see if you want true 10 bit (a bit harder to find) or 8+2 10 bit. For cpu, eh https://www.anandtech.com/show/9793/best-cpus check that out for a decent breakdown, ram will depend on mobo, but ddr4 3200 is a pretty safe bet (have to set it in bios via xmp due to nature of those speeds) and I would go 16-32 gigs. Most motherboards have at least 1 M.2 slot for an NVME drive, highly suggest you use it for at least os, ssd for apps/games (they are cheap no need for platter tbh). Samsung 850 EVO is a solid choice for the SSD and M.2 (I run the 970 EVO but those are M.2 only). I am pretty sure you are SOL on SLI unless you cash out, it is now limited to top end cards IE 2080/2080 TI and up. PSU depends on what other parts you get, newegg has a calculator for that. Mobo is pretty much find cpu, find compatible mobo's and compare features. Anandtech might have an article or two on those. Usually checking top rated on newegg works pretty well for starting points for searching. Tower will be up to you as well. That should put you at (depending on exact components) ~2300ish before tax (based off rough calcs from my comp order from a few months ago)
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 12. Feb 19, 08:26

Morkonan wrote:
Mon, 11. Feb 19, 23:05
Intel i7 based only CPU, no exceptions.
Why are you ruling out getting a Ryzen, when one of those would be far better for productivity applications like 3D rendering? Sure, they're a few percentage points slower per core than the Intel i7, but you get more cores for your money.

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by bof111 » Tue, 12. Feb 19, 14:32

Needed a bit of time to find my own topic. :P

When i was talking about when to buy i meant the new rig not X4. My bad, it wasn't clear.

Currently i have a monitor philips nothing crazy with only max resolution 1600*900. So it will not be for more than that. So the big Full HD and whatever don't mean much.
Because i ask myself if i should buy a graphic card and processor now or wait until summer. If in those conditions a RTX 2060 would be fine or not. Or maybe something inferior as it wil be at 1600*900 res. So what ? Didn't know the monitor have now such importance.

I don't have a SSD is it necessary for X4 ?

My budget is not more than 1000e (europe) for the rig.

My prototype rig would be something like that :

Intel I7- 7700
RTX 2060 or Vega 56 vanilla (no pulse or nitro)
16 MB ram
Windows 7 pro

What do you think about that and why ? I would need some briefely explanations. (I like to understand a bit things)

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 12. Feb 19, 16:42

Well, you shouldn't be getting Windows 7 for a start. It goes out of mainstream support in January 2020 and using it after that point is just putting out the welcome mat for the hackers.

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by bof111 » Tue, 12. Feb 19, 17:29

Well for win 7 I will stick with it until programs will not run anymore on it.
A dual linux/win with linux for online activities will be good too for hackers. :) So it's not a problem.

Guys you know what i'm digging into those rig stories and i'm askink my self something in reading comparasions.

Actually I have a i5 4670 3.4Gh and 8 Go ram i'm asking myself if i only upgrade my graphic card (wich burned out 2 weeks ago) if it would not be enough for X4 ? What do you think ?

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Baconnaise » Wed, 13. Feb 19, 18:42

bof111 wrote:
Tue, 12. Feb 19, 17:29
Well for win 7 I will stick with it until programs will not run anymore on it.
A dual linux/win with linux for online activities will be good too for hackers. :) So it's not a problem.

Guys you know what i'm digging into those rig stories and i'm askink my self something in reading comparasions.

Actually I have a i5 4670 3.4Gh and 8 Go ram i'm asking myself if i only upgrade my graphic card (wich burned out 2 weeks ago) if it would not be enough for X4 ? What do you think ?
If I recall the i5's are sometimes the same or in rare cases better in certain games. Most games don't use over 4c/4t old and new. It's usually a marginal difference clock for clock (couple FPS) and I assume a difference in cache size if any. GPU bottlenecking will be your problem. If it's a non K part that you can overclock then I would not buy anything too beefy like say a 1080ti or similar. If it's a K part then there should still be cheap air coolers like a cryorig or 212 that will let you OC to 4.2-4.8 with ease and low temps. You might be able to bump up to a higher end card and not see too much bottlenecking if any. First thing on your list for GPU's will always be your monitors and what resolution you game on. 1080p you'll be fine with a 570/580/590/1060 and even a 1050ti. Overkill would be a 2060 1070/1080/Vega56. One other area to consider is if you have a decent SSD. That'll keep your older i5 machine along with any overclocks and good 1080p GPU in working order and happy. If you have newer monitors that are 1440p then you will be pigeonholed into something like a 2060/1070ti at the least or vega56 (needs power). I'd consider a system upgrade at that point though to at least to a newer DDR4 based platform.

Linux wise you should be fine. AMD cards tend to perform better in Linux in my experience. Win7 is fine but sort of a wash in games now. You can see all the posts complaining about mods in this game due to Win7 users. You can run GPU passthrough or say Wine and get near full performance (sometimes more). Wine seems to run better than Windows nowadays too. It at least handles the CPU much much better than Windows. You can also run Win10 in a VM while on Linux and get rid of Windows entirely on hardware. Works surprisingly well.

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Morkonan » Wed, 13. Feb 19, 22:12

StormMagi wrote:
Tue, 12. Feb 19, 03:28
Well for one, a production grade monitor with wide gamut I would say that is a 10 bit monitor but you will have to do research to see if you want true 10 bit (a bit harder to find) or 8+2 10 bit. For cpu, eh https://www.anandtech.com/show/9793/best-cpus check that out for a decent breakdown, ram will depend on mobo, but ddr4 3200 is a pretty safe bet (have to set it in bios via xmp due to nature of those speeds) and I would go 16-32 gigs. Most motherboards have at least 1 M.2 slot for an NVME drive, highly suggest you use it for at least os, ssd for apps/games (they are cheap no need for platter tbh). Samsung 850 EVO is a solid choice for the SSD and M.2 (I run the 970 EVO but those are M.2 only). I am pretty sure you are SOL on SLI unless you cash out, it is now limited to top end cards IE 2080/2080 TI and up. PSU depends on what other parts you get, newegg has a calculator for that. Mobo is pretty much find cpu, find compatible mobo's and compare features. Anandtech might have an article or two on those. Usually checking top rated on newegg works pretty well for starting points for searching. Tower will be up to you as well. That should put you at (depending on exact components) ~2300ish before tax (based off rough calcs from my comp order from a few months ago)
All good advice! My pricing guesses are about the same, but the big difference is in the price of vidcards these days. I'm solid on EVGA, though, for that. PSU initial guess is at least 800watts for my comfort zone. 1k is not out of question, but in looking for SLI configurations, things get friggin' hairy, since everything has to get juggled around and even finding a card suitable for gaming that is SLI either means a lot more cash or bitcoin-mining gaming quality, which isn't great. I don't want to front more money for one card than the guts cost and then have to juggle to find another to SLI later down the road. The solution is to SLI at the start, but that'll add 50% to the cost at least for something worthy of doing that with.

Thanks!
pjknibbs wrote:
Tue, 12. Feb 19, 08:26
Morkonan wrote:
Mon, 11. Feb 19, 23:05
Intel i7 based only CPU, no exceptions.
Why are you ruling out getting a Ryzen, when one of those would be far better for productivity applications like 3D rendering? Sure, they're a few percentage points slower per core than the Intel i7, but you get more cores for your money.
I got burned a heck of a lot on AMD when it was pushing its way into "mainstream." So many little apps that I had just didn't like AMD. Back when I was really concerned with PC builds as a hobby, AMD was at first "awesome" due to price-point, et al. But, Intel was "The Standard" by which everything else was judged. "Oh, you're running AMD? Sorry, you'll encounter bugs and crashes. Gratz on saving the money, though. Enjoy the hangs.." :) My choice is simply based on "I want to ensure compatibility with the Universe" and not, necessarily, based upon "true knowledge." I might be open for being convinced, but then who am I gonna blame when "Favorite App Written A Decade Ago" doesn't like my cool, new, AMD chip? ;)

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by peteran » Wed, 13. Feb 19, 23:28

I'm on a Ryzen 7 2700, overclocked to basically a 2700X. It's not that much faster than a Core i5-4670 and I would definitely try that processor with a SSD and suitable GPU.

About which GPU to select. I was just this morning running a small battery of tests in X4. That thread may be of interest as the OP has problems with stuttering running on a Core i7-8700 and a GTX 1050 Ti. I believe a GTX 1050 Ti may not be enough to get as smooth an experience as my GTX 1060.

All the userbenchmark numbers are sort of synthetic but should give you a good idea of what kind of performance to expect.

I have a number of other tests that I can think of to see what impact different CPU and GPU settings have in a couple of different scenarios, mainly:
  • GPU heavy tests (such as the test above) with different AA settings and other options maybe forced in Nvidia control panel
  • CPU heavy tests, probably map showing a lot of ships and show all orders turned on
  • Mix? Maybe combat tests in a few different scenarios like dogfights and large fleet battles
So far I've not experienced much performance problems at all despite running on ultra and it was only recently that I became aware that turning on SSAA 4x is probably not for me if I want to avoid tearing.

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by BugMeister » Wed, 13. Feb 19, 23:36

you can resize the in-game UI, so a bigger monitor is a really good idea for X4..
no longer do you have to squint to see the text..

- your specs look ok to me..
- get 16Gig of fast RAM to make it go with max speed..
I'm struggling at times with 12Gig, but my chip's only an i965, so to be expected..
scaling back on in-game settings helps me out a bit.. :roll:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by pjknibbs » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 09:11

peteran wrote:
Wed, 13. Feb 19, 23:28
I'm on a Ryzen 7 2700, overclocked to basically a 2700X. It's not that much faster than a Core i5-4670
If you completely ignore the "hugely faster multi-core speed" line, yeah, it's not much faster. However, that's the point I was making about Ryzen--you get more cores, and in properly written productivity applications that's critical.
Morkonan wrote:
Mon, 11. Feb 19, 23:05
I got burned a heck of a lot on AMD when it was pushing its way into "mainstream." So many little apps that I had just didn't like AMD. Back when I was really concerned with PC builds as a hobby, AMD was at first "awesome" due to price-point, et al. But, Intel was "The Standard" by which everything else was judged. "Oh, you're running AMD? Sorry, you'll encounter bugs and crashes.
I've been running an Athlon X4 860K for five years and not had a single crash or bug that I could attribute to the processor. Mind you, I don't recall having any such issues back in the days when I was running an original slot-based Athlon!

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by StormMagi » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 16:42

Morkonan wrote:
Wed, 13. Feb 19, 22:12
StormMagi wrote:
Tue, 12. Feb 19, 03:28
Well for one, a production grade monitor with wide gamut I would say that is a 10 bit monitor but you will have to do research to see if you want true 10 bit (a bit harder to find) or 8+2 10 bit. For cpu, eh https://www.anandtech.com/show/9793/best-cpus check that out for a decent breakdown, ram will depend on mobo, but ddr4 3200 is a pretty safe bet (have to set it in bios via xmp due to nature of those speeds) and I would go 16-32 gigs. Most motherboards have at least 1 M.2 slot for an NVME drive, highly suggest you use it for at least os, ssd for apps/games (they are cheap no need for platter tbh). Samsung 850 EVO is a solid choice for the SSD and M.2 (I run the 970 EVO but those are M.2 only). I am pretty sure you are SOL on SLI unless you cash out, it is now limited to top end cards IE 2080/2080 TI and up. PSU depends on what other parts you get, newegg has a calculator for that. Mobo is pretty much find cpu, find compatible mobo's and compare features. Anandtech might have an article or two on those. Usually checking top rated on newegg works pretty well for starting points for searching. Tower will be up to you as well. That should put you at (depending on exact components) ~2300ish before tax (based off rough calcs from my comp order from a few months ago)
All good advice! My pricing guesses are about the same, but the big difference is in the price of vidcards these days. I'm solid on EVGA, though, for that. PSU initial guess is at least 800watts for my comfort zone. 1k is not out of question, but in looking for SLI configurations, things get friggin' hairy, since everything has to get juggled around and even finding a card suitable for gaming that is SLI either means a lot more cash or bitcoin-mining gaming quality, which isn't great. I don't want to front more money for one card than the guts cost and then have to juggle to find another to SLI later down the road. The solution is to SLI at the start, but that'll add 50% to the cost at least for something worthy of doing that with.

Thanks!
pjknibbs wrote:
Tue, 12. Feb 19, 08:26
Morkonan wrote:
Mon, 11. Feb 19, 23:05
Intel i7 based only CPU, no exceptions.
Why are you ruling out getting a Ryzen, when one of those would be far better for productivity applications like 3D rendering? Sure, they're a few percentage points slower per core than the Intel i7, but you get more cores for your money.
I got burned a heck of a lot on AMD when it was pushing its way into "mainstream." So many little apps that I had just didn't like AMD. Back when I was really concerned with PC builds as a hobby, AMD was at first "awesome" due to price-point, et al. But, Intel was "The Standard" by which everything else was judged. "Oh, you're running AMD? Sorry, you'll encounter bugs and crashes. Gratz on saving the money, though. Enjoy the hangs.." :) My choice is simply based on "I want to ensure compatibility with the Universe" and not, necessarily, based upon "true knowledge." I might be open for being convinced, but then who am I gonna blame when "Favorite App Written A Decade Ago" doesn't like my cool, new, AMD chip? ;)
If you run 1080/1440 standard resolutions (16:9) you shouldn't need SLI for X4 if you go for a 2080 (or even 2070). In part because I am not sure if there are true 10 bit monitors in the ultra wide screen. I have yet to OC my system at all (but I put in a custom water cooling loop because I wanted to do it at least once) and honestly, the few slowdowns I get are so few and far between right now. Plus I expect more optimizations to the graphics engine down the line.
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by peteran » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 16:53

pjknibbs wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 09:11
peteran wrote:
Wed, 13. Feb 19, 23:28
I'm on a Ryzen 7 2700, overclocked to basically a 2700X. It's not that much faster than a Core i5-4670
If you completely ignore the "hugely faster multi-core speed" line, yeah, it's not much faster. However, that's the point I was making about Ryzen--you get more cores, and in properly written productivity applications that's critical.
Very true and the main reason for me selecting a Ryzen. Even playing X4 I will usually have a fair amount of other applications running so for me it is perfect. However, if your main goal is to target X4 performance, then a greater number of cores won't help much. I haven't actually done any real performance testing as usually my CPU usage in game isn't very great. I plan to do that at some point (by limiting which cores X4 can run on) and see how many threads are actually running concurrently. Some dev or other user input on this would be appreciated.

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Morkonan » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 21:20

StormMagi wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 16:42
If you run 1080/1440 standard resolutions (16:9) you shouldn't need SLI for X4 if you go for a 2080 (or even 2070). In part because I am not sure if there are true 10 bit monitors in the ultra wide screen. I have yet to OC my system at all (but I put in a custom water cooling loop because I wanted to do it at least once) and honestly, the few slowdowns I get are so few and far between right now. Plus I expect more optimizations to the graphics engine down the line.
The SLI configuration would be for amping up GPU-based 3D rendering without having to build another box dedicated for that. Though, I may still build a render-farm box. Haven't yet made a final decision on that, so kept the SLI as a desired option if I decide not to build a separate farm.

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 23:31

Morkonan wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 21:20
The SLI configuration would be for amping up GPU-based 3D rendering without having to build another box dedicated for that.
Does the rendering use SLI or just multi-GPU's?

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Morkonan » Fri, 15. Feb 19, 17:02

jlehtone wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 23:31
Does the rendering use SLI or just multi-GPU's?
As many GPU cores as it can get, but the cards don't have to be SLI. I just figured I'd take advantage of SLI if I had the opportunity. The primary reason for an additional card would be for GPU rendering, though. If I had to hotswap/dc the SLI, no problem.

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