Hardware selection for X4

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StormMagi
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by StormMagi » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 16:42

Morkonan wrote:
Wed, 13. Feb 19, 22:12
StormMagi wrote:
Tue, 12. Feb 19, 03:28
Well for one, a production grade monitor with wide gamut I would say that is a 10 bit monitor but you will have to do research to see if you want true 10 bit (a bit harder to find) or 8+2 10 bit. For cpu, eh https://www.anandtech.com/show/9793/best-cpus check that out for a decent breakdown, ram will depend on mobo, but ddr4 3200 is a pretty safe bet (have to set it in bios via xmp due to nature of those speeds) and I would go 16-32 gigs. Most motherboards have at least 1 M.2 slot for an NVME drive, highly suggest you use it for at least os, ssd for apps/games (they are cheap no need for platter tbh). Samsung 850 EVO is a solid choice for the SSD and M.2 (I run the 970 EVO but those are M.2 only). I am pretty sure you are SOL on SLI unless you cash out, it is now limited to top end cards IE 2080/2080 TI and up. PSU depends on what other parts you get, newegg has a calculator for that. Mobo is pretty much find cpu, find compatible mobo's and compare features. Anandtech might have an article or two on those. Usually checking top rated on newegg works pretty well for starting points for searching. Tower will be up to you as well. That should put you at (depending on exact components) ~2300ish before tax (based off rough calcs from my comp order from a few months ago)
All good advice! My pricing guesses are about the same, but the big difference is in the price of vidcards these days. I'm solid on EVGA, though, for that. PSU initial guess is at least 800watts for my comfort zone. 1k is not out of question, but in looking for SLI configurations, things get friggin' hairy, since everything has to get juggled around and even finding a card suitable for gaming that is SLI either means a lot more cash or bitcoin-mining gaming quality, which isn't great. I don't want to front more money for one card than the guts cost and then have to juggle to find another to SLI later down the road. The solution is to SLI at the start, but that'll add 50% to the cost at least for something worthy of doing that with.

Thanks!
pjknibbs wrote:
Tue, 12. Feb 19, 08:26
Morkonan wrote:
Mon, 11. Feb 19, 23:05
Intel i7 based only CPU, no exceptions.
Why are you ruling out getting a Ryzen, when one of those would be far better for productivity applications like 3D rendering? Sure, they're a few percentage points slower per core than the Intel i7, but you get more cores for your money.
I got burned a heck of a lot on AMD when it was pushing its way into "mainstream." So many little apps that I had just didn't like AMD. Back when I was really concerned with PC builds as a hobby, AMD was at first "awesome" due to price-point, et al. But, Intel was "The Standard" by which everything else was judged. "Oh, you're running AMD? Sorry, you'll encounter bugs and crashes. Gratz on saving the money, though. Enjoy the hangs.." :) My choice is simply based on "I want to ensure compatibility with the Universe" and not, necessarily, based upon "true knowledge." I might be open for being convinced, but then who am I gonna blame when "Favorite App Written A Decade Ago" doesn't like my cool, new, AMD chip? ;)
If you run 1080/1440 standard resolutions (16:9) you shouldn't need SLI for X4 if you go for a 2080 (or even 2070). In part because I am not sure if there are true 10 bit monitors in the ultra wide screen. I have yet to OC my system at all (but I put in a custom water cooling loop because I wanted to do it at least once) and honestly, the few slowdowns I get are so few and far between right now. Plus I expect more optimizations to the graphics engine down the line.
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peteran
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by peteran » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 16:53

pjknibbs wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 09:11
peteran wrote:
Wed, 13. Feb 19, 23:28
I'm on a Ryzen 7 2700, overclocked to basically a 2700X. It's not that much faster than a Core i5-4670
If you completely ignore the "hugely faster multi-core speed" line, yeah, it's not much faster. However, that's the point I was making about Ryzen--you get more cores, and in properly written productivity applications that's critical.
Very true and the main reason for me selecting a Ryzen. Even playing X4 I will usually have a fair amount of other applications running so for me it is perfect. However, if your main goal is to target X4 performance, then a greater number of cores won't help much. I haven't actually done any real performance testing as usually my CPU usage in game isn't very great. I plan to do that at some point (by limiting which cores X4 can run on) and see how many threads are actually running concurrently. Some dev or other user input on this would be appreciated.

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Morkonan
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Morkonan » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 21:20

StormMagi wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 16:42
If you run 1080/1440 standard resolutions (16:9) you shouldn't need SLI for X4 if you go for a 2080 (or even 2070). In part because I am not sure if there are true 10 bit monitors in the ultra wide screen. I have yet to OC my system at all (but I put in a custom water cooling loop because I wanted to do it at least once) and honestly, the few slowdowns I get are so few and far between right now. Plus I expect more optimizations to the graphics engine down the line.
The SLI configuration would be for amping up GPU-based 3D rendering without having to build another box dedicated for that. Though, I may still build a render-farm box. Haven't yet made a final decision on that, so kept the SLI as a desired option if I decide not to build a separate farm.

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 14. Feb 19, 23:31

Morkonan wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 21:20
The SLI configuration would be for amping up GPU-based 3D rendering without having to build another box dedicated for that.
Does the rendering use SLI or just multi-GPU's?

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Morkonan » Fri, 15. Feb 19, 17:02

jlehtone wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 23:31
Does the rendering use SLI or just multi-GPU's?
As many GPU cores as it can get, but the cards don't have to be SLI. I just figured I'd take advantage of SLI if I had the opportunity. The primary reason for an additional card would be for GPU rendering, though. If I had to hotswap/dc the SLI, no problem.

Misunderstood Wookie
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Misunderstood Wookie » Sat, 23. Mar 19, 12:19

I really think you all are over thinking this -
Let me break this down into something which does not need to go into a hardware debate.

First
Ask yourself what is X4?
I will tell you, an economic flight simulator >
what do simulators have in common?
CPU thread usage!
So, knowing this we have already ruled out every bit of hardware which is not a six core or greater (the personal experience I have a six core I would recommend 8 or greater for optimal balance)

Intel or AMD?
Once answer right now, AMD and why is that?
because whilst INTEL is faster clock for clock it is marginal relative performance difference over an 8700k vs AMD Ryzen 2700 is below 10% improvement per core something which you can close the gap with by simply overclocking the AMD.


What do you gain from AMD over INTEL?
More threads, A LOT MORE THREADS!!! for you hard earned $$$$
forget about what ever bull someone has to say about Ryzen most if not all of the early woes are rectified now and everything runs super smooth don't believe use Google and read up on Ryzen vs Intel testing post 2017.
(bonus upgrade paths as ZEN 2 will use AM4 socket just make sure you get the latest MOBO chipset available don't skimp out on the board)

Note: If you are thinking I am a AMD FAN... actually you would be wrong I have used nothing but INTEL after the early AlthonX generation such as AthlonX2, Ryzen however has put AMD back on the map for many like me and actually do go toe to toe with INTEL chips these days.

The Build
The success we have narrowed down exactly what we are going to use only one thing left to do and decide other parts which let me be quite clear with AMD MEMORY is a priority if you plan to overclock that AMD as the multiplier is tied to your memory speed. So we already know we are going to put most of our budget into the motherboard and memory .
Forget about power supply and storage in 2019 we are lucky enough to have cheap and affordable access to NVMe and PSU's so I will tell you exactly what to do.

  • CPU - AMD 2700 or 2700X whichever fits your budget better keep in mind ZEN2 is coming this year with a near 40% performance improvement and it will give the INTEL i9's a bit of a roasting lucky for you ay, you can just plop that right into your existing socket because AMD are not *****.
  • CPU Cooler - Don't need one if you are not going to overclock AMD has a nice beefy one in the box, however if you pick the 2700X grab a Corsair Hydra H100i Pro 240mm, if you have room in the case and your budget is still looking alright go with the Corsair Hydra H150i Pro 360mm (triple slot radiator for extra dissipation)
  • GPU - This became a simple choice thanks to Nvidia - 1660tTi mid-range card or if you want a something a bit higher spec Nvidia 2070 (the 1660TI tho is a great performance vs cost with added tech from the RTX line up of cards, simply it is the most powerful mid-range card and has really good memory bandwidth using GDDR6)
    Unless you want Radeon for FreeSync in which case there are no good cards right now wait for ZEN 2 and Radeon 3000 series cards or go Ebay yourself a cheap Vega64 ($500)
  • Mainboard - Do I even have to tell you? Any latest AM4 chipset within budget which has a beefy power delivery and heatsink over the VRMS ($270-$300 board whichever is cheaper between Gigabyte or ASUS)
  • Memory, nothing SLOWER than 3000mhz, I recommend one of the G-SKILL 3200mhz DDR4 32GB kits. If comes between 3200++mhz or cost savings at 3000mhz step down to 16GB DDR4 and pick the faster speed. You can always throw another kit in later.
  • Storage - NVMe 500GB/1TB Samsung EVO storage stick.
  • Power Supply - ANY! Corsair power supply that is 700Watt or higher and gold rated efficiency or better.
    (cheapest PSU wins just weigh up the efficiency vs available wattage pick the cheapest option which is in a 700watt spec)
Morkonan wrote:
Fri, 15. Feb 19, 17:02
jlehtone wrote:
Thu, 14. Feb 19, 23:31
Does the rendering use SLI or just multi-GPU's?
As many GPU cores as it can get, but the cards don't have to be SLI. I just figured I'd take advantage of SLI if I had the opportunity. The primary reason for an additional card would be for GPU rendering, though. If I had to hotswap/dc the SLI, no problem.
Don't bother!
I already asked this question and CBJ gave me the answer, SLI/XFIRE are not supported in X4 Foundations they have not enabled multi-gpu use in Vulkan API (which is what this game is using)
I have duel AMD RX 480s in my system as of current and I tried crossfire it does nothing at all, I expect SLI to be the same.
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Morkonan
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Morkonan » Sat, 23. Mar 19, 18:05

ledhead900 wrote:
Sat, 23. Mar 19, 12:19
...Don't bother!
I already asked this question and CBJ gave me the answer, SLI/XFIRE are not supported in X4 Foundations they have not enabled multi-gpu use in Vulkan API (which is what this game is using)
I have duel AMD RX 480s in my system as of current and I tried crossfire it does nothing at all, I expect SLI to be the same.
I had deviated from the original topic and the SLI cards for multi-GPU processing were intended for 3D Rendering applications, not gaming. (Still working towards a new system, but have some extensive bills to deal with first. :) )

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Misunderstood Wookie » Sun, 24. Mar 19, 03:33

Morkonan wrote:
Sat, 23. Mar 19, 18:05
ledhead900 wrote:
Sat, 23. Mar 19, 12:19
...Don't bother!
I already asked this question and CBJ gave me the answer, SLI/XFIRE are not supported in X4 Foundations they have not enabled multi-gpu use in Vulkan API (which is what this game is using)
I have duel AMD RX 480s in my system as of current and I tried crossfire it does nothing at all, I expect SLI to be the same.
I had deviated from the original topic and the SLI cards for multi-GPU processing were intended for 3D Rendering applications, not gaming. (Still working towards a new system, but have some extensive bills to deal with first. :) )
OH I see, I would wait for Radeon 3000 the Vulkan API is really good with computation tasks and 3D rendering AMD have that part pretty well in line with Nvidia.
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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by Morkonan » Sun, 24. Mar 19, 19:05

ledhead900 wrote:
Sun, 24. Mar 19, 03:33
..OH I see, I would wait for Radeon 3000 the Vulkan API is really good with computation tasks and 3D rendering AMD have that part pretty well in line with Nvidia.
I gotta stick with NVidia... I'm too old to change from my Intel/NVidia habits, now. :) If I have an Intel CPU and a NVidia GPU chipset, I know I have the best chances for compatabilty and ease-of-use, no matter how powerful or more betterer any other options might be. :) Sure, back in the day I played around with all that stuff and tweaking things, being intimately familiar with the cutting-edge junk. Today, I get tired just thinking about troubleshooting a customized driver setting to get something to work right...

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Re: Hardware selection for X4

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 24. Mar 19, 20:27

Besides, you have to know your "3D Rendering applications"; whether they use CUDA, Vulkan, Metal, etc. There is no point to buy the hardware if you know that your application stack won't support it.

Trivial example: if X4 does not support multi-GPU Vulkan ...

@Morkonan: Thought so (on no-SLI in farm).
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