2020 US presidential election

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Observe
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2020 US presidential election

Post by Observe » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 00:02

I know, it's still 2019, but this is the US election we are talking about and such things are long, drawn-out affairs. The election will be in November 2020, but the cast of characters is growing, as new hopefuls throw their hats into the circus with zeal.

Here is a list of confirmed Democratic candidates thus far. Who do you favor? This time, there is a record number of female candidates. Is America ready for a woman President?

We are doomed by our shared destiny, to suffer through what will no doubt, be a bloody spectacle! We might as well find a comfortable seat and bring on the supply of popcorn and pizza.

Cheers. :)

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by muppetts » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 09:03

The sad thing is most drop their intent to run now because they need so long to raise the millions required to even have a slim chance of being seen. Time they banned all special interest groups, super pacs, all that nonsense, ban lobbyists and set a single war chest amount per party, that's what you can have, no more, you waste it, burn it, tough no more and no outside advertising. If you removed the requirement to drum up tens of millions of dollars then you would not need to have this huge lead up, it could just kick off 3 months before the election.

I still think in any democracy one of the problems is accountability, in plain speak you should not be able to lie and you should be accountable for those lies as it is a form of fraud, which you are carrying out for votes, power and money.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 09:45

what - and lose the freedom to bribe..?!
- not bloomin' likely.. :o :o

a lot of that tax-break money recently funnelled to the Replicant oligarchs will trickle back in the form of anti-democratic propaganda..
it'll wind up as another blizzard of lies..

- blimey, this cynicism is really getting bad - it's even beginning to affect me..
- and I'm not American.. (honest!) :D

- looks like it'll be an interesting race, though..
- I'd say Elizabeth Warren, but I can't help thinking she'd be much better cast as a stalwart back-bencher.. :gruebel:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Bishop149 » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 12:03

I'm confused already.

I never understood the US Primaries.

"Hey lets get all the people in our party with enough seniority and electability to tear chunks out of each other for 6 months, then once we have a winner everyone has to be best buds with that person"
"Hey remember that time I viciously attacked this policy and called the guy that proposed it an 'utter moron' for proposing it? Yeah, well the utter moron won so I support that now"

It comes across as a little disingenuous at best, complete lunacy at worst.
I mean the same thing happens in British politics up to a point, but the slanging matches don't get anywhere near as nasty and we don't make them national televised events.

Anyway, perhaps it's a bubble effect from the particular brand of Democrat I'm exposed to but the consensus appears to be: "We've learned nothing from 2016, We're doomed, 4 more years of Trump" :cry:
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by fiksal » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 15:52

Observe wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 00:02
Here is a list of confirmed Democratic candidates thus far. Who do you favor? This time, there is a record number of female candidates. Is America ready for a woman President?
Ha, is America ready? America is never ready for anyone non-white non-old non-male.

But on serious note, I've yet to do a homework on any of the candidates, so I dont know who I'd go with just yet. In the past I've voted with Sanders, will see if it'll be the case this time.

Bishop149 wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 12:03
I never understood the US Primaries.

"Hey lets get all the people in our party with enough seniority and electability to tear chunks out of each other for 6 months, then once we have a winner everyone has to be best buds with that person"
"Hey remember that time I viciously attacked this policy and called the guy that proposed it an 'utter moron' for proposing it? Yeah, well the utter moron won so I support that now"
It works better when there are less lunatics, that's for sure. But it's not bad, - it's good to have a choice in this. At least Democrats at the end tend to come together too, in the party anyways.

Bishop149 wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 12:03
Anyway, perhaps it's a bubble effect from the particular brand of Democrat I'm exposed to but the consensus appears to be: "We've learned nothing from 2016, We're doomed, 4 more years of Trump" :cry:

No-one knows what that lesson is exactly. How do you energize the 60% of people who dont give a damn? There's, obviously little convincing that can be done over Trump's base, so I'd say discount them altogether. Which leaves people who vote somewhere in the center, who give a damn, but make questionable choices in life.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by felter » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 17:06

It has to be Trump for 2020. Now hold on I know you are saying I hate Trump, that I think Trump is the worst President ever and has just messed it all up, just like he has messed up everything he has ever touched, that I even mentioned that he should be jailed just recently. Now all that is true, I have, did and do think all of those things, but here's the catch, you have to admit that the last couple of years has been the most hysterically comical time in any US Presidency, it's been full of laughs, tears, shock, disbeliefs and drama not to mention sex. Yes he is screwing everything up and crapping on the poorest of Americans but they voted for him, it's what they want, they enjoy being abused by an older white supremacist. So I say let them have it for another 4 years, what else have they to look forward too. The rest of us can just sit back and enjoy the show, especially seeing as it has to be the best reality TV show ever, and it would be a shame not to have another season.

VOTE TRUMP 2020.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 17:23

ah, good - Matron's just brought tea and biscuits..
I say, that's actually some very deep critical analysis and cogent reasoning there, Mr Felter - I takes me 'at orf to ya, sir..
and the costumes look so delightful, don't you agree - I particularly enjoyed Miss Whiplash in her jack-boots, during the third act..?
gosh - it never did me any harm.. :roll:

- yes, another 4 years certainly does seem appalling..

Just carry on - Donny old-boy..
show must go on - best foot forward, and all that..
- keep up the good work..!! :D :thumb_up:

I say, Matron old thing - could you brush these crumbs off my lap for me.. :wink:
Last edited by BugMeister on Thu, 21. Feb 19, 18:00, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by fiksal » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 17:52

felter wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 17:06
you have to admit that the last couple of years has been the most hysterically comical time in any US Presidency
They were.

But there's a problem with that, while we laugh (and by we I absolutely include myself) there are people who die due to his less than vague support of white supremacists groups;
and then there are children who are kidnapped from their parents for who knows how long time.

and then people who also happen to die because of Republicans' / Trump's push that if you cant afford a medical care, or too sick, you probably dont deserve it.

That's just if we concentrate on US, and current events only.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Morkonan » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 20:43

Observe wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 00:02
...Here is a list of confirmed Democratic candidates thus far. ...
"Confirmed?" I don't think so.

So far, I haven't seen anything to like from any of the hopefuls that are starting their campaigns right now. From everything I have seen of them, which isn't a whole lot, all they're doing right now is grabbing at any hype they can get. They're snatching at enthusiasm, trying to demonstrate energy, scrabbling to clutch any little bit of excitement they can get their little hands on. It's a typical sort of "Democratic Candidate" thing to do and they're doing it with gusto. So, I wouldn't support any of the ones I have seen/read/heard yet. They're pandering garbage and will continue to ape anything the crowd throws at them, citing their full commitment and devotion to any cause that the crowd seems to cheer.

I haven't seen/read/heard any "straight talkers" just yet. I haven't seen any potential candidate address a truly significant topic and then present their own, rational, well thought out plan to approach it. I have yet to see any of them mention any topic that is critical right now and none, that I have experienced as of yet, have bothered to address issues that would require them to "take a stand" for something that's "important."

Meh. They're followers, not movers. Most of the credible "politicians" worthy of note have political histories that I find to be typical of someone who seeks the camera, but only because someone else has done something they want to argue against.. and yet still do nothing about. Yay? Meh.

Don't be surprised if Trump, if he doesn't end up in jail, wins again.

PS - The only one I think has, of right now, a good chance would be Biden. But, he's too old. It's sad, but it's a valid consideration that has to be addressed. Beto is interesting, but he figures in like a Dean figure - He's going to do something that ends up to be too embarrassing to get nominated. Surprising, and I didn't scroll down to see if he's on this list of hypothetical hopefuls, Howard Shultz, former CEO of Starbucks, might make a bid. At first, that sounds ridiculous and few people would support that. But, he comes from the humblest beginnings one could think of and climbed a ladder until he reached "success." I heard a few things from him and he might have a legitimate chance. But, more needs to be known, IMO. The one thing going for the career politicians in the lineup is that they've had experience. The biggest thing going against them is that we've had experience of them...

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Observe » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 22:56

I haven't seen anyone who particularly strikes my fancy. I'd like to hear candidates views on how to deal with emerging advances in deep-learning artificial intelligence having potential to control our behavior, purchases and beliefs. Global warming and other environmental issues are paramount. Healthcare remains an unsolved problem in the U.S.

One of my first litmus tests in a candidate, is how often they use the word "fight". So far, I have dismissed every one of them that I've listened to, because usually within 60 seconds, they resort to fight this and fight that. We need to rise above seeing enemies in every corner and instead see solutions and friends.

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Mightysword » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 00:33

Bishop149 wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 12:03
"Hey lets get all the people in our party with enough seniority and electability to tear chunks out of each other for 6 months, then once we have a winner everyone has to be best buds with that person"
"Hey remember that time I viciously attacked this policy and called the guy that proposed it an 'utter moron' for proposing it? Yeah, well the utter moron won so I support that now"
It has always been possible, it's just people never thought about doing it before. And I dare say you all know the name of one man who had inspired all of these Democrat hopeful. They may all claim they're coming out against him, but it's fairly obvious to me on many levels that they're fancying to be the next Trump. ;)
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Bishop149 » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 10:10

fiksal wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 17:52
. . . . there are people who die due to his less than vague support of white supremacists groups;
This.
It might be rather amusing to watch the orange moron repeatedly prove and expand upon the depths of his ignorance and incompetence.
For his critics (such as myself) it can be gratifying to be so continuously and decisively proven correct.

But all this is an aspect of my privilege, as a cis-het British white dude I have little skin in this game. Mr Trump can do very little to hurt me, short of starting a nuclear war.
But he is hurting people, every day he remains in power adds to toll of pain, suffering and death suffered by the marginalised or foreign groups he continually demonises and attacks and in doing so cements and normalises such behaviour within US society.

Likewise there is a part of me that can't wait for Brexit to become the epic disaster I predict it to be, so I can be proven right and crow about it, so that the idiots that voted for can suffer the consequence as karma.
But the fact is that it will kill people, children will go hungry, people will be driven into despair and misery by economic hardship, our society as whole will be weakened . . . . . and yes, it might even be bad enough to penetrate my substantial personal privilege.
This is not something to laugh or be smug about and urges to do so are deeply unpleasant and should be suppressed.
Morkonan wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 20:43
PS - The only one I think has, of right now, a good chance would be Biden. But, he's too old. It's sad, but it's a valid consideration that has to be addressed.
He's only a few years older than Trump and a year younger than Sanders. I mean personally I'd agree that they're all "too old", but does the electorate and system agree? They obviously didn't in the case of Trump.
Probably a good call there Mork, I mean I probably wouldn't vote for him but I'd say he's the sort of candidate that could well beat Trump.
fiksal wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 15:52
No-one knows what that lesson is exactly. How do you energize the 60% of people who dont give a damn? There's, obviously little convincing that can be done over Trump's base, so I'd say discount them altogether. Which leaves people who vote somewhere in the center, who give a damn, but make questionable choices in life.
I don't think that's right In 2016 they ran a (THE) centrist candidate with Bernie in the background as a spoiler. The extreme (for the US) left swung behind Bernie and a sizeable portion of the more moderate majority looked an Hilary and went "Ugggg no, I'll sit this one out thanks"
It looks like in all probability that they'll be applying the same strategy again, possibly with more momentum behind Bernie this time.

IMO opinion they want to be ditching the Hilarys and Kamalas and going for a more left wing candidate. Myself and the lefty democrats I tend to follow would go all the way to Bernie or further but this might be a step too far, someone in between the Hilarys and Bernies of this world might stand the best chance of success.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by fiksal » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 16:47

Observe wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 22:56
I'd like to hear candidates views on how to deal with emerging advances in deep-learning artificial intelligence having potential to control our behavior, purchases and beliefs.
Is this a serious concern? I think this deserves a separate thread where you explain why ... and we possibly discuss on topic :)

Bishop149 wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 10:10
IMO opinion they want to be ditching the Hilarys and Kamalas and going for a more left wing candidate. Myself and the lefty democrats I tend to follow would go all the way to Bernie or further but this might be a step too far, someone in between the Hilarys and Bernies of this world might stand the best chance of success.
Do you think Democrats lost that one because they didnt go far enough into the left? Interesting thought, but I've no idea if that's right.
I am a bit unclear on what, the democratically inclined to vote, voters want.

Bernie's message after his loss was quite clear - vote with Democrats, as in, we'll have more swing (aside from having Trump as a president), and yet, that wasn't enough either. (Disregarding the fact that both branches are elected by basically a minority population)
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Mightysword » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 22:07

fiksal wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 16:47
Do you think Democrats lost that one because they didnt go far enough into the left? Interesting thought, but I've no idea if that's right.
To put it bluntly: that's what every "losers" believe. You will rarely hear anyone thumping their chest after a victory "I won because I'm extreme left or right" because it's politically incorrect, you're supposed to server everyone and all that. But each time someone lose, than 9 out 10 the statement "we lost because we were not far enough to the left or the far enough to the right" will show up on the post evaluation. I have heard that excuse come up several time a year every year ad nauseam from both Democrat and Republican strategists.

I said this before I believe the reason for this is it serves as an excuse, if they lose because their extreme agenda then all they have to be next time is NOT going back to the middle, but to be even more extreme. Hence the hyper-polar state of politic we end up with today. :sceptic:
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Morkonan » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 03:06

Bishop149 wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 10:10
He's only a few years older than Trump and a year younger than Sanders. I mean personally I'd agree that they're all "too old", but does the electorate and system agree? They obviously didn't in the case of Trump.
Probably a good call there Mork, I mean I probably wouldn't vote for him but I'd say he's the sort of candidate that could well beat Trump.
Agreed. It's not that I am sure he couldn't do the job because of his age. I just think it would eventually become too big of a campaign issue. And, I have to admit that it would be a valid concern and one that may not be significant for other candidates.

And, Sanders? I think he's long past his political prime. Ignoring the fact that I think a lot of what he says is gibberish, he's moved from the realm of "political candidate" to that of "raving hermit attacks village because he blames villagers for his rock having died." He's great for headlines and political-shock shows, but don't give the man anything sharp or a pool to run around.

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Mightysword » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 03:18

Morkonan wrote:
Sat, 23. Feb 19, 03:06
Agreed. It's not that I am sure he couldn't do the job because of his age. I just think it would eventually become too big of a campaign issue. And, I have to admit that it would be a valid concern and one that may not be significant for other candidates.
If Biden run and make it through the nomination I would vote for him (can't vote in the primary because I'm independent). From what I see of him so far, he's like the John Casick from the last election. Like I said, if I can find a candidate that is "better" than Trump, he/she can get my vote. And you THINK that would be an easy task :D

So far the rosters are filled with Trump wanna be though :sceptic:
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Morkonan » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 03:29

Mightysword wrote:
Sat, 23. Feb 19, 03:18
...Like I said, if I can find a candidate that is "better" than Trump, he/she can get my vote. And you THINK that would be an easy task :D

So far the rosters are filled with Trump wanna be though :sceptic:
I agree, wholeheartedly. I'm "Independent" too, and proud of it. IF Biden made it, I'd certainly vote for him. Even if he went senile I think he'd be an improvement. Even a slightly deranged duck would be an improvement... :)

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Masterbagger » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 04:47

2020 seems a long way away but my choices do seem to be President Trump or socialism. That makes things kind of easy.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Usenko » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 10:16

Masterbagger wrote:
Sat, 23. Feb 19, 04:47
2020 seems a long way away but my choices do seem to be President Trump or socialism. That makes things kind of easy.
To say this is to demonstrate a lack of understanding of socialism.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by muppetts » Sun, 24. Feb 19, 11:59

The uneducated on the right always talk like this, GOP faithful thinks anything not GOP is Leftist Socialism with no idea of what that means, whether it is real or not and the fact that multiple 8 year Dem terms have be served over the years with not a single of their tin foil hat fears coming true.

Trump will bankrupt the USA long before any of the Dems would.

Still so funny these people think Trump is one of them, 15 years ago he was on TV bigging up the Clintons and saying the GOP voter were idiots :)

Watching America turn in and consume itself it very funny, the eventual collapse will be even more entertaining.
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